Anthem, there were thousands of people who helped out after the hurricanes. Many left their jobs, homes, families for extended periods of time. They were not encouraged to do so, they just felt compelled to go. That is human nature. I don’t feel that one person should be singled out and commended for their efforts, it is just something you do. Many people who for whatever reason could not go there to help, sent money, food, clothing. I do not think that the things I have done in the name of charity or compassion makes me a better person, or atones for any wrongs, it is just something that needs to get done. No one encourages me, I do it on my own.
Originally posted by meadow lark:
it seems to me it has lost its purpose and should just be shut down…
It’s purpose it to keep this fresh in our minds, and make the “powers that be” aware of just how many of us are against reinstatement. It may also act as a deterrent to those who wish to be reinstated to understand that we have NOT forgotten. This thread is still doing that just fine.
I enjoy a battle of wits unfortunately they’re not armed with any.
“We don’t need no stinking horse killers.”
Obviously, the only thing PV should be allowed to do is be the head of FEMA. I’ll qualify this by saying that I have not read the entire thread(s) but if killing horses is not enough to warrant a lifetime ban, what is? Is there such thing as a lifetime ban from the organization? If not, seems to me a rule change is in order so that certain people never even come up for reinstatement. They wouldn’t grandfather in these scumbags, but it would be there if needed. I really don’t understand people who are aware of the circumstances hiring any of these people to do anything relating to horses.
Originally posted by shade:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>One is not necessarily entitled to forgiveness; one must earn it. And one is not automatically entitled to respect and compliments from their peers; one must earn that as well.
None of the supporters have been able to tell us what PV has done to earn our forgivenes other than donate his lesson money and help with the hurricane horses. IMO that is not enough, not considering the crime that was committed. I personnally would like to see time and energy donated. But that’s just me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Shade-What I am trying to say to you is that he IS trying, and that there have been a NUMBER of efforts on his part to try and ‘earn forgiveness’…In the few attempts that were made public, he was attacked and accused of being sefl-righteous. Unfortunately the many ways he has offered his time and money to help withouth any publicity have gone just that, unknown.
My point of view is as someone who does interact with Paul on a regular basis, I DO Know of many times and instances where he has offered time and strength to various causes…I know of these because I see him, or, when I wonder why he isnt in the ring that day, I discover that he is off somewhere, helping someone, or countless strangers.
I wouldn’t expect you to know the many charities, or donations of time hes made, because they are not flown on a billboard, or advertised by Paul.
Could it, perhaps, that these truly ARE efforts to try and earn forgiveness? Consider this…
wanna be- did you read the link by War Admiral in her opening post?
Originally posted by blubays:
Yes, that is a great idea! Both Big Dawg and Sheila. It would be fun to see them explaining why they are promoting the convicted horse killers and why they think the way they do.
I’ve already explained it. Killing horses is a part of the game, and insurance fraud is widely tolerated in both the horse world and society at large.
Originally posted by Beezer:
I’m not sure PV owes me, personally, an apology. But he owes the industry one, and he hasn’t given it. He and the others involved gave all of us a nasty black eye and as far as I can tell, they really don’t see that as being a problem. If they did, they’d take out an ad that, instead of touting their recent good works, would say something along the lines of, “I was stupid. I was wrong. I apologize.”
Very good point. And I agree.
But unfortunately there really isnt any public forum that would allow him to stand before the members ask for forgiveness.
Perhaps something he will consider…
I do know that anyone that has had the b@lls to speak to him personally has been satisfied with his humility.
The actual language might be an aide to discussion. I have emphasized some language in bold and omitted any particular name or time frame to make it easier to discuss generally.
NAMED PERSON is hereby expelled from membership in the AHSA and denied all the privileges of membership including the ability to hold or exercise office in the association, attend or participate in association meetings, hold license(s) as an AHSA or FEI official, compete in international competitions or receive AHSA automatic insurance coverages or participate in AHSA group insurance programs and is found not in good standing and he and all horses owned, leased, or of any partnership, corporation or stable of his are found not in good standing and are suspended from competing or taking any part whatsoever in Recognized competitions and he is excluded from all competition grounds during Recognized competitions as an exhibitor, participant, or spectator. The panel members also directed that the Hearing Committee retains jurisdiction over this matter, and NAMED PERSON may not apply to the Association for reinstatement any sooner than XX years from the date he first became suspended by the Association on account of his indictment for the crime in question and then only based upon affirmative proof of total rehabilitation, including proof that he has taken steps to reform himself and has performed community service to benefit the welfare of horses.
.
The language is interesting; and somewhat vague and conflicting: ie, expelled vs suspension; and the implication that he may not apply for reinstatement without affirmative proof etc. At least that is how it reads.
“Community service to benefit the welfare of horses” is IMO different from “contributing to the horse community”.
Also notice indictment vs. conviction.
Reinstatement includes a lot more than being at the ring with his students.
Hope this furthers general discussion.
What about GR704.6 and7? The USEF can request records and decide on their own if the rules were “frustrated”? Doesn’t that leave it open for the USEF to decide if the best interests of the USEF were upheld?
Janet, very astute posts in the last two pages.
Thank you all for the kind words. Yes! one of the few good things about having been around for so long is that little is herasay.
There are inexperienced youngsters made bitter by a world they don’t understand and them I can forgive because they just don’t know. I’m sure eventually they will realize that this life is lived to learn.
What do you want Sheila??
is hate a cause? or an emotion? perhaps one fuels the other.
I wonder how many of the PV defenders would be up at arms if it were Ross Hugo’s or George Lindemann’s reinstatement being petitioned against. PV has every right in the world to apply for reinstatement, and those against allowing him back also enjoy the right to try to prevent him getting reinstated.
yet xegeba you keep posting, keep the politics up, use some religon, when will you realize your kicking a dead horse…
Brobaby…I like you… Why? 'cause you make me look like the NSBC… you get your posters mixed up(Religion? Me?) and you are fun to eff with.
Excellent suggestion Lucassb, I would be pleased to send a contribution.
Originally posted by Showponymom Aefvue Mid Atlantic Division:
Sgray Thank you find that thread. It just reinforces that something MIGHT be amiss. Still would like to know who is signing the entry blanks.
from same thread same thread page 3 “Paul V also has a young pro-rider named Carrie Sortor (sp) from RI. Recent college grad.”
ru·mor
Pronunciation: 'rü-m&r
1 : talk or opinion widely disseminated with no discernible source
2 : a statement or report current without known authority for its truth
3 archaic : talk or report of a notable person or event
In addition to Lori B and Susan’s eloquent words… Something else to consider… Some you think the NGB will be “unbiased” and “do the right thing”…
If Nancy Manfield has been reinstated – as has been implied here – I should trust the USEF why?
And, Racetb, I can totally relate to your feelings of disappointment and frustration on this since you know PV and he actually had a postive impact on your life…(and I commend you for being so thoughtful and rational thoughout this debate.)
BUT, the facts are what they are, and I just feel that there is a very big principle at stake here. We’re at an important crossroads now, and it’s time to take a stand.
Seb
p.s. I haven’t forgiven anyone who voted for GW either. My “golden years” are going to be “rust” at best because of him… With any luck I’ll just be a burden to my family. 
