I’m very curious now and a little shocked that anthem, you seem to be implying that there is another side to PV’s story? Why on earth can’t he tell it??
Originally posted by xegeba:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>This Rule is intended to provide guidance for suspended persons and anyone
contemplating taking over the responsibility for the riding, exhibiting, coaching, or training,
of an unsuspended horse from a suspended person.
What exactly does this mean? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Person A is suspended. Person B is NOT suspended.
Horse C WAS trained (or ridden, exhibited, coached) by (suspended) Person A, but Horse C is not itseldf suspended.
The rule provides guidance on how Person B can take over the Training ( or riding, exhibiting, coaching) of horse C, without being charged with “riding, exhibiting, coaching or training for the benefit, credit, reputation or satisfaction of a suspended person.”
Sgray - well, there is one member of your list who for sure won’t be reinstated: Jerry Farmer died and is, if there is justice, probably spending enternity working on another type of reinstatement entirely. 
Quite the opposite; those of us members with principles will not leave; we will stay and get louder and louder and and grow and grow like an anti-body attacking an intruding virus used to immunize the host.
Hey, MWE, Me too!! Well, actually I’m on two committees.
Sheila you do! Because at this point you have neither.
This rule is aimed more at the “assistant” or “alternate” trainer (person B) who is the one who shows up with horse C on the show grounds, while suspended person A is still collecting training fees for Horse C, and paying person B for being there.
So as long as A is not getting any renumeration … and not paying B, then C’s owner is good to go?
And I have to say no matter what any of them do it will never be enough for me to want them reinstated. The crime is just too heinous. But considering what they did they all should be giving back to the whole horse community…just because.
Originally posted by slainte!:
horserider133
if you were that concerned about oxer being ripped off, maybe you could have called her 2 years ago when the deal was actually going through.
also, there’s a small thing called COMISSION on the A Circuit. To sign up on COTH to PUBLICLY annouce these things is absolutely classless.
Oxer walks, talks, and breathes nothing but pure class. This thread is really making me sick.
Also, on this petition I would love for each person to mention if they personally know each “horse killer” or not. Would be interesting!
I did not know about the prices during the transaction. I also feel as though it is pertinent due to the nature of this thread, as well as in response to particular remarks by Oxer.
[deleted by moderator]
I have not stated anything regarding the character of Oxer. It is a pleasure to watch her compete her horses. I have nothing against her, and I respect her right, and yours, to post here. I am merely pointing out a discrepancy. I did not comment on her class. I imagine that she is a lovely individual.
BTW, I know the trainer in question. I have also lessoned with him.
Originally posted by GoldCoastRider:
The gaul of people like her (Dana Waters) is the most unbelievable and the most frightening part of it. To parade around like nothing was done?
I think that is what has turned me off to the whole “big circuit” crap. These people with more money and even more attitude prancing around looking down on people, and having this attitude that they can decide what is right and what is wrong, who is forgiven and who is not. Their decisions must be accepted.
What boggles my mind is the snobbery and high standards when it comes to what circuit, what clothes, what type of horse, what trainer, what this and what that…but then haughtely to say well we think this person (rapist) is part of the club, or that person is wonderful (horse murderer) or that person has style (drug dealer). The rationalized and self serving double standard is forced upon you like a B rated horror movie.
It makes me sick.
I know we are such an “elite” sport. 
I’m reminded everytime I see celebs dressed in modified show attire holding their ponies with a dressage saddle and western headstall on a magazine cover. I can’t believe they want to emulate our sport especially with the “company” we keep. You would think a group like us, so picky about their clothes and helmets would hold higher standards for those who work with horses.
What happened to Hugi? professionally?
Originally posted by harryjohnson:
I also find it very interesting that the Valliere supporters who preach forgiveness and compassion, in a moment’s notice turn contentious and petty. It seems to me that as long as their interests are being served, they are happy, but it does not suprise me because their ideas are molded and influenced by someone with that same line of thought. I can see how this discussion has degraded to what it is at times, opinion runs deep on both sides. In the end, a lot of people will be unhappy either way.
Harry I take issue with this b/c although I may be PV supporter I don’t think I have ever been contentious and petty to any of the non-supporters. Maybe I reacted to a verbal attack on me by others in the posts who flamed me for disagreeing with them but I feel I have been respectful of others opinions and have tried very hard not to be mean spirited towards those who frankly, have not been so corteous to me or others who do not share their viewpoint.
Originally posted by Coreene:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by big dawg:
And Eric Lamaze has been caught three times for cocaine, and he is still in the sport–once he was either going into or coming out of Australia, I think, to/from a competition.
Oh please, like a little tootage is the same thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It amazes me that some of you think that breaking some laws are o.k.–but others are not…he got busted [arrested] 3 times. cocaine is a big problem in this and other countries…the USEF has suspended people because their horses tested positive for the drug and it is a prohibited substance.
Wow, you just want it Your Way, and have no logical point of view it appears.
racetb, the parties in question should not accurately be referred to as ‘the accused’; they have in fact been convicted.
It is quite an extraordinary piece of hyperbole to refer to a petition drive that advocates keeping a group of people out of an organization as a lynch mob, and to speak generally of mobs and vigilantism. No one wishes these people any physical harm. The petition seeks to prevent them from enjoying the perquisites and privileges of a membership organization, on the basis of past offenses proved (or admitted to) in a court of law. Such an activity seems quite unlike vigilantism to me.
How true, big dawg…but, please, apply this to yourself as well. 
you don’t need to attack when you reply
I DO know people who have committed these crimes. And i went to the authorities, i went directly to the insurance company, and they told me basically to F**K OFF and that it was non of my business and that this person was a loyal customer of theirs…That’s what i get for trying to save them 15,000$. So as far as getting the Insurance companies on your side…Good Luck.
Schyler, I’m with you. But not because of PV’s (Who I know by reputation only) actions of the past, but because what I see here amounts to a veiled attempt to influence the Hearing Committee, and deny PV his due process. Courts of law try to prevent “mob influence” by giving high profile defendants such protection as change of venue and voire dire in jury selection. You can be sure that when this issue comes before a Hearing Panel, all sides of the issue will be weighed…with public opinion being one of them. But I find it unbelievably mean spirited for a group of (well meaning) horse lovers to try to skew the process by inciting a moblike reaction.
I am as mushy about horses as any of you, and have a pasture full of old retired friends who serve no purpose, eat the most expensive, high protein soft gruel that can be concocted for their toothless enjoyment, and enjoy a nice warm stall at night ( that could be occupied by a useful saleable horse) to prove it. I cannot imagine killing a horse because of convenience. But, I also hope that I never reach a point where I feel that a person, who has “served his time”, displayed remorse, and who clearly has much to offer, should be denied a fair and impartial shot at the hearing process.
Originally posted by Duffy, CFO, Aefvue Farm LLC:
Yes, harry, but would she say “my mind is a sieve” when she’d forget something?
My mother was also cut from this cloth! I still have those words ringing in my ears. Although sometimes she would try to convince me that her mind was like “a steel trap.”
In any event, what were we talking about?
Originally posted by wanna_be:
i just think that while a nice idea, if 100,000 BBers signed a petition and 100 succesful GP riders supported him, well he will be welcomed onto any showgrounds. And for the most part, all of todays showjumping “heroes” DO support him, and have remained friendly with him, and have bought horses for themselves/ clients from him, and admire the way he has stayed in this business and continued to teach younger riders how to in turn become successful in the GP ranks.
I am not saying don’t do this, because I believe you should always stand up for what you think is right, I am just saying Look who you are up against- it may be futile.
[/QUOTE]
All you guys really need is a couple of signatures. The bottom line is that it doesn’t matter how many successful GP riders or former Olympic riders or USEF board members support reinstatement. Get Anheuser-Busch, Rolex, or one or more of the other major sponsors behind you. Most, if not all, of these corporations do not want any bad publicity surrounding an activity that they sponsor. Look at how many sponsors drop advertisements on TV shows because of controversial subject matters addressed within those shows. Do you think that Budweiser, with its trademark Clydesdales, wants to be associated with an organization that reinstates convicted horse killers? One word from these major sponsors trumps all GP and Olympic riders combined.
Couple quick points:
(1) USEF cannot do anything until such time as any of the suspended parties applies to be reinstated. All they can do is say “thank you for your e-mail and your concerns have been noted”. That’s the way the legal mechanism is designed to work.
(2) I’d really like to see this thread redirect itself just a hair. The issue is NOT “Valliere or No Valliere”, it is “Reinstatement of Horse Killers or No Reinstatement of Horse Killers”. They’ve already readmitted one; some of us feel that’s O.K., some of us feel it sets a dangerous precedent for the future of the sport and do NOT feel it’s O.K.
By decision of the USEF Hearings Committee, Mr. Valliere happens to be the next one eligible to reapply. In my opinion, that is the ONLY extent to which he should be considered or even mentioned in this thread. There are a couple more of the so-called “horse killers” becoming eligible to apply for reinstatement in 3 years. I believe that group to include Mr. Ward but have not received verification on that.
Let’s try starting to think long term on this thread and keep the personal stuff out of it as much as possible, please!
