BTW N&B&T, does your face hurt after so many grins in your posts?
See, I said smiling brightly doesn’t make stuff go away.
I do no a woman with a Basenji that will pull her boyfriend clothes out and pee just on his stuff!
I think the Basenji is trying to make a statement! But he probably just hates the BF because he flunked English.
Originally posted by ponybreeder Aefvue Pig Farm:
I find it of interest that most of PV’s supporters on this thread are competely incognito. Now that is certainly their right, and a basic on BBs. Still, most of the No REIN group is well known by everyone. Yes there are some big supporters who have ID’d themselves, but so many more who are showing up lately and suggesting that they know legions of people who are for reinstatement. If anyone wants to throw some names out of people in favor, I will give you 10 for each one of people who are against it.
PB don’t you find it interesting that many of these people are “new” posters but they seem to know everything that has been going on and sound so much like some other posters that have “disappeared”??
I’ve stayed away from this thread, but reading the last two pages made me want to just throw this out for discussion:
People kill horses all the time. It’s not against the law.
How and why it is done can be against the law.
PV did it for money and it was done in a very cruel way.
But he only got charged with the “why,” not the “how,” right? I don’t recall. Was the “how” his decision or the SandMan’s (remember that sometimes, electrocution was used).
The penalty for murders that a heinous are different (and more long lasting, yes?) than the penalties for manslaughter and murder in less degrees.
If he only did it for money, and left the “how” up to someone else’s decision, shouldn’t that be considered differently (don’t forget the IF there, OK)?
There are trainers out there medicating horses to the point where they will face ultimately face a painful retirement and possibly death. Some of these trainers have gotten caught doing such things. They are doing them for money, too.
If PV gets treated in “x” way, will there/should there be a trickle down effect on all “crimes against horses” in the USEF that are based on monetary gain and result in cruelty? Shouldn’t USEF be consistent? Or is PV’s condition just because he also broke a law in the wider criminal system?
I watch Animal Planet’s Animal Cops. There’s a lot of cruelty toward animals out there, but so far, the wider society doesn’t seem to feel it deserves the kind of treatment it is getting in this instance. What makes horses different from chickens, dogs and cows?
I find myself continually coming back to fairness here. What is truly, truly “fair” in this case? Truly?
(I’ll admit that I’m not neutral: I believe he’s paid his dues on this and will continue to pay (socially). But keeping him off the grounds by ruling him off for life doesn’t look like it’ll make much of a difference (economically), so what does it all matter (ultimately)?
Originally posted by C.Boylen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>As a member of that committee, an opinion weighs heavily with general membership.
As a member of that committee, I personally concern myself with issues and conditions that currently affect horse welfare. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That’s right. There’s not a welfare issue if the horse is dead. 
So why aren’t you working on reforming the Rules instead of trying to go against the rules?
Big Dawg, I think you’re really a little “chiwawa”, a lot of noise and no substance doing your master’s bidding. If you want to see a big mean dawg, I have one.
We’re not going against the rules we’re insisting they be enforced. The rules are there Article 706 Sections A and M. They define anything that is not in the best intrests of the sport and the Federation. Harboring felons that killed horses for money is hardly a benefit, don’t you think? Further the CEO can suspend any suspects until there is a hearing. The problem is you think your friends have the hearing rigged and PV is going to skip right through. Well, we’ll see I suppose whose right you or the “little people”.
If he does; do you suppose the USOC and the Commerce Committee of the US Congress could be far behind following the trail of blood?
Better play nice.
I had read that “spirit of the suspension” thing also, Mike, and meant to mention it here, but got distracted slapping little fingers. 
Of course, now that banned coach is in a mental hospital, after running into a police barricade in Austria. 
Also of interest, I believe I read that the judge who “threw” the pairs figure skating competition in SLC was banned from judging for only three years, which surprised me. I mean, who is ever going to trust her to judge again? Although I admit I haven’t followed the story closely. I do seem to remember that she confessed to what she had done early on, so maybe that had something to do with it.
[/QUOTE]
But the option does exist to return to the industry and engage in banking activities, as well as be licensed by the NYSE and the SEC.[/QUOTE]
And has anyone made an attempt to stop whomevers reinstatment of their licenses? Has anyone tried to say “No, they should not be allowed?” Would you want to trade or buy stock from a known theif? I’m not that carefree about my money.
Originally posted by Snowbird:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>the fault of your statement is in the interpretation of the rules. they are meant as the trainer may not be at the show ring, on the show groungs, or on the phone coaching the rider through a course while showing in a recognized class, he also cannot be riding, etc. yet he IS allowed to send a trainer employed by him to train his riders which he trains at home (mass or FL) under his own roof(s)
Why do your posts sound so much like Hildegaard Frostbite who happens to be managed by Mason Phelps? I remember early on when you tried to impress us with your insider knowledge.
In any case it is not “my interpretatin of the rules” it is what the rules read exactly. I see clearly where it is a violation of the Federation Rules to add any gain in prestige or money to the benefit of anyone suspended. You on the other hand seem to read them the old way where the rules were interpreted to mean if they didn’t say you couldn’t then you could! Yopu really need to get contemporary “my dear”. BUT that was a whole other corporation “dearie”. This one is brand new and they say that the rules will be enforced equally for everyone highly placed or lowly. We intend to make that be so!
proper writing skills? please i’d love to be “educated” on what was improper about that post. IMO is short hand for in my opinion. i write in perfectly fine interest. i don’t count the riders i’ve seen, i have seen a bunch, in person. i apologize for not knowing his life story “my love.” your previous post was the most IRRELEVANT, ignorant thing i have read in my entire life.
No you don’t want to be educated you make your living from being snide and sarcastic. I am so pleased because if you think a post is irrelevant and ignorant it must be really intelligent and right on target, don’t you think “my love”. Congratulations to who ever it was you were criticizing; maybe they will get your job from Mason. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
snide and sarcastic? all of my posts have been honest. my whole-hearted opinions. it’s so funny how close-minded people cannot even FATHOM what the other party is attempting to say.
Thank you Shoos!
BTW, did I ever answer the person who was having probs viewing the signatures? If not, I apologize. Two things occur to me: (1) try a different browser and (2) make sure cookies are enabled on your computer.
If neither of those works, let me know.
Originally posted by Indy:
WA – a small nitpick on the petition…you have two #3s in your reasons why PV has disregarded the spirit and intent of his suspension.
I know. I apologize. I fruitbatting HATE it. But they won’t let you change it after it’s submitted. I can see their reasoning, which is that if some people signed it when it was worded one way, and others signed it after it was “fixed”, ALL THE SIGNATURES WOULD BE INVALID.
Sorry y’all, I am a crap proofreader and an unlettered asp-pole!!! 
But we’ll have to live with it. The good news is that it is not going to invalidate anything.
LMAO!!! I think I saw him in a tutu at The Nutcracker Suite last week. Anyway, another way around things, a ploy CK used for years, is to lease a farm abutting WPB, or any other permanent venue that hosts a steady stream of horse shows for that matter, and set up shop. I can’t see a way for the powers that be to do much about this. Although, in animal cruelty cases, even on a local level, an offender can be barred from any association with animals. Much as a sex offender with children…Oh yeah, we have one of those too…I forgot!!
War Admiral, congrats on that wonderful piece in the Palm Beach Post today. Lovely, lovely.
Of course, it had to have the usual Mason butt kiss, but then who is surprised?
Like any passerby of a car wreck, I just HAD to go scan the “Genesis thread.” Now I’m back!
SHAME on you, David Olinyk for going off to THE DARK SIDE.
Yes David, it’s hard to make a living in the horse business, but do you have to stoop so low? You were THERE in Sugarbush when they dragged away that horse! How can you ever forget? God tells me to forgive, but I can’t forget.
I think most horse lovers think it is a “crime” to kill a horse, unless it’s a humane euthanasia for an injured or sick animal.
But we also are well aware that the legal system does not necessarily recognize it as such, and I really don’t see any reason to debate that here.
PV was suspended for violating the rules/laws that DO exist. The petition is against his reinstatement. Nuff said.
A true sportsman seeking reinstatement would not even allow his person, or persona to be perceived as violating the rules. It is not our burden to prove he is in violation. It is PV burden to prove he is able to be reinstated.
Originally posted by Racetb Aefvue Farm Ltd.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>And yes, I really DO believe he is ONE of the best we have.
puuuuulease.
…and what Pony Breeder said goes for me. I was on Paul’s side, and, like PB, dealt with him and LIKED the guy for many years. But his “supporters” have done nothing for his cause, alienated would be non-signers, and swung the pendulum for many of us with some pretty rabid, ridiculous and callous input here. With friends like you all, who needs enemies? 
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is so unbelieveably unfair.
I have done nothing but remain respectful and polite of everyone and their opinion.
I have done nothing more than support someone I truly believe in.
I have offered my name, as well as my number to anyone who would genuinally like to understand my position.
I have been subjected to personal e-mail attacks as well as PM’s from people who know nothing about me other than whom I choose to train with.
I’m truly sorry you cannot understand me feelings, but I will continue to respect yours.
As always, I truly applaud anyone that is courageous enough to fight for which they believe.
Again, if this were to get out into the mainstream media, that our NGB reinstated a horse killer, our industry is finito, done, no mas, nada, niente. And the USEF would be cooked, or toast, pick your favorite.
Serious? Kinda like that boycott of Aruba?
Originally posted by Boberry:
“I had a rough couple of shows and I was doubting our partnership a little bit. But I credit all the help that Barney and McLain Ward have been giving me" -Cayce Harrison. By the rules of the USEF this is a vioaltion?
This is no more of a violation than PV training people. What is the difference? BW can own horses. He can buy and sell horses. He can train horses and he can teach people how to ride horses.
The only thing(s) he cannot do is show horses or perform any of the above acts on the grounds of USEF events.
Well said Ghazzu. 
I think that pretty much sums it up doesn’t it? I don’t believe that ANY amount of time should dull the pain of this issue. Period!
