Looks pretty cut and dry to me, radio. Thanks for posting that.
sorry, am not used to these chat room rules and etiquette, etc. this is new for me and i am doing some research for an article i am writing. i was warned about these chat rooms and am finding maybe the warnings were correct. seems there is not much room for differing points of view.
and please you don’t need to attack when you reply.
Sheila, I think by now you have made your point.
You don’t LIKE the red bracelets. In fact, you don’t like the BRACELETS.
great, fine, good. don’t buy one. we GET it already.
I personally believe re-instatement is inappropriate for all involved. If this situation doesn’t warrant lifetime banning, it is difficult to imagine what would. Sanctions need teeth or they aren’t sanctions.[/QUOTE]
But that is your Opinion, not the current USEF [or former AHSA] Rule…do you believe in following the Rules, or are you for a dictatorship run by you?
[QUOTE continued]
I hope that some of the previous posters that are PV supporters/fans/neutral reflect on this sentiment. Perhaps N&B&T would be so bold as to start a new thread. It could be titled “please read if you support PV or are PV neutral”. The meat of the post would be the above statement. Maybe that would lead to further discussion?? I know “pounding the pulpit” won’t change anyone but perhaps if we could just get a few people to re-evaluate their positions. I have read with amazement some posts from people that support (or will not take a stand on) PV that otherwise seem like very reasonable folks.[/QUOTE]
And I have read also with amazement some posts from you and others who just want their own way–forget that the Rules allow each suspended person to apply for reinstatement–, and who I am sure are otherwise possibly reasonable folk.
Boberry, I am not a rules maven… in fact, I don’t think ANY of us are. But it is just not logical to think that the USEF can pass a rule that would, in effect, prohibit people from giving credit to a suspended person – as in, “I credit Bob Smith with helping me learn to ride.”
Looking at the rule, and totally guessing here, I would think “credit” would be intended to prevent someone showing a horse to earn points for a suspended person or something like that. THAT is something that would be under USEF’s jurisdiction.
I do think the rule sounds like it’s intended to apply to the kind of situation that PV is in, and there are other aspects of the situation where it might apply. I seriously, seriously doubt that thanking someone in a magazine article is one of them, however.
How can you tell from the petition who is a USEF member or not? I am but did not put my number down because I do not know it by heart. A friend signed it and her USEF membership was pending so she could not put a number down. I know people who joined USEF just as this whole thing was put together who signed it but did not have their “official” paperwork yet. Some have not joined yet, some have belonged in the past. So just because it does not say they area USEF member does not mean they are not.
This is how I look at it-when who ever in that infamous group decides to apply for reinstatement, theye have the right to plead their case. We as members of USEF, potential members of USEF, former members of USEF, and participants in the sport have the right to plead our case as well. Perhaps some people are holding off on joining USEF to see how this pans out.
I have said it before and will say it again”"I will be highly pissed if any of them get reinstated and I paid money to be lumped into an organization along side them.
BTW Harry, good pint about the non members fees, et al! applause!
Originally posted by 2hsmommy:
Anyone who rides for a living is doing it for the love of the sport. Do you honestly think people make money on horses every year? Oh, that’s right, some people did try to make money off of their steeds. But some got caught.
Sure they love the sport, but what makes you think professionals aren’t also in it for the money? You said it yourself…they do it for A LIVING. Thus with the intention of making an income on which they can support themselves. Not everyone makes money on horses every year, but the BNT’s and BNR’s that you all seem to enjoy living so vacariously through DO in fact make money off of the industry. And by “making money”, you know I don’t mean “committing insurance fraud”, so don’t try to play that card, it’s not going to hold any ground.
And age is but a number for those of you who care so much about it. The fact that many of you are twice my age really has nothing to do with my knowledge of the situation and the fact that I’ve heard more than what the members of COTH have to say.
Actually, Snowbird-Suppose my analysis of you comes from not only reading your bitter and cynical posts,<span class=“ev_code_red”> but from what I have heard about you personally?
</span>
I can’t wait to hear who you have been speaking with; a source less trustworthy that Marcella I fear.
That you are a<span class=“ev_code_red”> bitter old woman who sits by the computer all day with a bottle of booze and whose daughter decided she could no longer work with due to the same? </span>Might not be pretty, but as I said, I have never spoken to you. Only heard things from the rumor mill. Much like your assumptions about Paul.[quote]
Thank you for the biggest gaffaw of the week. You really brightened my morning. But then I haven’t been convicted of Insurance Fraud and I haven’t been suspended for horse abuse. I haven’t been suspended for anything. Actually I’ve never even had a ticket driving.
Don’t you wish you could function as well as this little old mountain lady; if you live to be as old as me. Hey! maybe it’s the booze that’s kept me going you never know. They say for longevity you should drink at least two glasses of red wine a day. Smoking cigarettes prevents Alzheimer and Parkinson’s and who knows if I didn’t smoke I might be a paranoid schizophrenic.
Damn! I am so wicked and have collected so many enjoyable vices I can’t imagine any reason why I’d be bitter or cynical. I think being opposed to Re-Instatement for convicted felons who have employed various frauds against their own clients and horses is a very positive position for something very worth while.
Unfortunately, I’m so busy drinking my booze I don’t have either the time or interest in chasing down all your history. As to why my youngest is not here on the farm the reasons are much more complicated than you could even imagine. As a good Mom who loves her children I will leave that private for her to resolve in her own time.
You know anthem35 the fact is I don’t really spend that much time out here I’m actually building web sites, planning events, running horse shows and a tack shop besides being politically active and on my way to Washington DC as the Chairman of the New Jersey Delegation for NFIB which has accepted farms as small business. They are the largest Lobbyists in DC si I expect some success for the horse industry.
Would you prefer to debate existentialism, the way to start another Renaisance, the conditions of the Highland’s Act, the DEP or even the current decisions by government regarding farmland assessment? Name your topic and I’m ready for the game.
Do you have anything constructive that you do to make the wold we live in a better place?
My new favorite mission to make manure a viable product we can sell.It is true that I am not your ordinary run of the mill cookie baking grandmom. I don’t baby sit. And, I have declared my own emancipation having spent the past 50 years between getting pregnant, being pregnant and raising three remarkable children all with a right to their own opinions with which I do not have to agree. Since my youngest is 40 and my oldest is 50 I feel I can do whatever pleases me and no longer expect to be nominated for “Mother” of the year. No, sainted Mother Theresa here on this mountain.
I havent heard any horse killers weigh in on this topic.
Except the ones who boast about having signed the petition.
Originally posted by big dawg:
sorry, am not used to these chat room rules and etiquette, etc. this is new for me and i am doing some research for an article i am writing. i was warned about these chat rooms and am finding maybe the warnings were correct. seems there is not much room for differing points of view.
and please you don’t need to attack when you reply.
What’s your article on? Perhaps you could start your own thread for it? This is the “No Reinstatement” thread, therefore many of us do have the opinion that people who killed horses in cruel ways for insurance money should not get reinstated. They can apply BUT most of us participating on this thread don’t believe they should get it.
I’m really not sure why you’re introducing your opinion about hunters being drugged? It interrupts the flow of the thread as you have no evidence to support such a wild claim and it has nothing to do with reinstatement.
So, go ahead, start your own thread and I’m sure many of us will help, if we can, with your article. 
Originally posted by ise@ssl:
I think radishes come in bunches and so do bananas. I never knew people come in bunches.
How about some capital letters?
Nice to know you read. 
Hey guys, what do ya say we get petty here??? I mean,seriously… are we in high school here??
The fact that many of you are twice my age really has nothing to do with my knowledge of the situation and the fact that I’ve heard more than what the members of COTH have to say.
So why don’t you share the knowledge of the situation and the facts that you have heard more than what we have said here. Maybe it would enlighten us.
Bumpity! Bump!
Discriptive?
In case anyone wants to make fun of my age, let me just say that I knew PV before he was even born.
I always thought the red ribbon was for finiishing second.
Originally posted by jetsmom:
This is kind of off topic a little, but one of the things that I found so horrific, is that when the authorities were “on” to what was going on, they heard about a horse that was “scheduled” to be killed. They sent people to stake out the barn and videotape what went on. The video showed a horse having his legs being broken with a crowbar and turned loose so it would look like an accident. THe authorities did not intervene, because they needed to actually catch them filing an insurance claim in order to get them for more than a misdemeanor. After the “perps” left, a vet came out and put the horse down which was truly suffering and going into shock. This video was one of the most horrible things I have ever seen, and I think of it everytime the name of one of those involved is mentioned. I find it somehow equally troubling that what they did to that horse was allowed to happen because in the eyes of the law, torturing an animal is somehow a lesser crime than ripping off an insurance company. That seems so wrong to me.
Did anyone else see the video to which I am referring?
I didn’t see the tape but I believe this was Streetwise (f/k/a Innisfree).
I’ll sign the petition too, I don’t believe in forgiveness when it comes to cruelty to animals. Everyone involved in these murders should have received lifetime bans in addition to their jail sentences. Its very disappointing to hear that many of the “big names” in our sport continue to befriend PV and do business with him. Whether a petition will do any good or not we owe it to these horses to try.
I admire you buryinghill2, especially since PV was such a good friend, too bad there are not more people in this business with the courage to turn their backs on these murderers.
Good leter and, I would certainly sign!though I I dothink will reuire support from a //bnRT/T or sponser to make it effective.
WarAdmiral,
Really good letter-I don’t think it’s too long. If we all get as many signatures as we can, not only will it spread the word to others in the industry who don’t know what happened, but by flooding their mailroom they won’t be able to say they didn’t get our petitions.
BTW, if we send just one letter with a bunch of names on it as opposed to many letters, could they just throw it away and never respond? This could be a concern.
As soon as I heard about all of this several years ago, I made sure that everyone I know in the industry heard about it–because although it is public record, there are SO MANY people that had no clue.
Also, If I am just a “peasant member” of the USEF and I don’t have the right to voice my opinion AND have them respond in some way, then I wan’t my money back!
As C. Boylen said : it is tax fraud.
Horses have to be run as a legitimate business, not John Doe owning a horse wanting to sell…you need to show a profit one every 5 years…The tax write off does not equal the cost paid for a horse
Originally posted by slainte!:
i highly DOUBT Big Dawg is PV. he’s not a fan of the internet or computers at all.
also, he’s a busy man. much too busy to be monitoring what everyone thinks about him!
and big dawg, there’s nothing wrong with wanting to stay annonymous on this issue.
too busy busy with the hundred’s or I forgot the THOUSAND’s of clents (talk to Oxer about that one-((she’s in the next stall)), by the way email C. Boylen-she crashed the party). She hates hidden posters on this subject but I guess that is only when they do not befriend PV.
