The "NO REINSTATEMENT" thread.

[N_B_T]

Snowbird, please remember that this is a gossip column. “Marcella” is a pen name, I think. So that statement could mean absolutely nothing, just as well as it could mean what you think it does.

I posted the quote to illustrate that the petition is beginning to receive press in equestrian periodicals as well as mainstream media. And remember, most monthlies have a very long lead time for publication, so we may see more down the road. Or not.

If PV is on the showgrounds when he shouldn’t be, etc., I’m sure that will eventually come out in the wash.

[N_B_T]

So despite the USEF rule, they would not be able to examine books if it were determined that the information is necessary in a hearing? Of anyone?

Many of you exhibit quite fine feelings in this particular exchange. However, I think given the circumstances, interest in who all the players are, and how the rules are supposed to work, is justifiable, so don’t be too hard on yourselves.

I’m surprised so much discussion of what to do or not do is necessary, although it’s nice for anthem to be made aware of it. Surprised, because it seems to me that it would be quite simple, to decide what to do: avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

Also curious–weren’t the convictions in the mid-90’s?

.

[shade]

Anthem…you are the first pro-PV person to come on here and tell us that he has been trying to give back to the horse community in many ways other than the hurricane relief or just donating money. Thank You

[Racetb_Aefvue_Farm_B]

Erin…excellent question.
BostonC…I hear ya. Makes me want to ignore it all and just take care of my little corner of hermit-h/j trainer-animal-rescue world; But I feel guilty leaving it at that, …
Then we have beautiful people like Kathy Kusner…Olympians, dedicating their lives to Horses In The Hood etc. I have to think The Great Scorekeeper In The Sky is watching and knows who the good guys are…and assuring “the best possible training for oneSELF” isn’t high on his list of good deeds.

[EasterEgg]

How can he possibly be reinstated?? Here in the UK if you’re convicted of any kind of animal cruelty you get banned from keeping animals - in this case that would almost certainly be a lifetime ban on keeping horses and probably a ban from being involved in the industry…
As for being asked to judge a class, well, if I was entered in that class I’d withdraw and demand my money back from the organisers - I wouldn’t let any horse killer judge me, that’s for sure.
This whole thing makes me so angry - I was livid when I first heard about it, and I’m fuming now, and as for people that want to be involved with him now, ugh, I’m not sure I could find the words

[JuniorJumper01]

Originally posted by Duffy:
JJ01 - First, had to say what a GORGEOUS barn that is

Second, you might want to recommend that someone update Carl’s bio on the website. (It has American Horse Show Assoc. all over it. )

Duffy-Carl isn’t teaching out of Split Creek anymore. He’s here in Wellington until May 1, but he’s doing the whole ‘independent traner’ thing. Todd Minikus is based at Split Creek now, so the website is out of date on many levels

My main issue with people on this board is that you don’t seem to realize that personal attacks on Paul are wrong. The issue is as to whether of not someone in violation of a rule should be allowed reinstatement to USEF after serving a suspension. The freedoms he will be gaining are being able to show himself, schooling his students on the showgrounds instead of across the street, and watch his students go. He’s already training, selling, teaching, etc. None of that is in violation of his suspension. Going on the showgrounds on “off days” (i.e. unrecognized by USEF) is not in violation of his suspension, so you may want to take that out of your petition. Second and third hand accounts of what he has/has not done to violate the USEF terms is also pretty weak. You’re going to need some pretty hard core evidence to have any sort of impact on USEF.

Comparing our sport to other sports is also without grounds, as each governing body of each sport has different rules. If a basketball player violates some rule of the NBA and is consequentially prohibited from ever playing in a recognized basketball game ever again, that’s based on the rules of the NBA and its board of directors. Nothing in the rules of the USEF directly states that Paul can not be reinstated after suspension. That is the joy of loopholes, like it or not.

I understand the moral turmoil of it all, but it’s not morals or principals that are going to get you anywhere. And the legalities of it are realistically in his favor.

[xegeba]

is embezzles a word… Bali? Correct that usage.

[xegeba]

i believe that the European Ethics Book is one page longer thanthe American Ethics Book.

[Duffy]

Got some more signatures from people I spoke with at Lexington.

[harryjohnson_Aefvue]

Stop talking about me ladies, and Fairview, the wife is in love with the colt on your website called Tahoe. Please let her know that a woman of her age with limited experience could not handle a young colt!!!

[mwe]

I have to admit I have not read all 120+ pages word for word, but I absolutely believe in Paul’s right to apply for reinstatement. I think commenting on a subject when you only have a little information is a bad thing. Many people posting have never been to a horse show, nor know what goes on at the upper levels of horse sports (racing, as well as showing)

Growing up in New England, showing at the same shows as Acres Wild students, I was nothing but impressed with Paul, his horses and riders. I would feel extremely privileged to ride with Paul then or even now. I would ABSOLUTELY trust him with the care and custody of my horse. When these ”instances” occurred, believe what you want, it was not uncommon at the time. Today, “useful” horses are still killed, put down, sent to slaughterhouses when the owners no longer find them useful. Horses are donated, for tax deductions when people aren’t willing to accept the financial losses. That is the business.

Targeting Paul is not the solution. If you are trying to teach the young trainers. Making money is still the priority in the horse business, always was, always will be. I don’t know of any trainer that does not send their students to the shows with a “stand in” while they are suspended, unless their “vacation” occurs after the indoor shows before Florida. Again, this is common practice. It is done by the majority of trainers, not just Paul. Do you think your customers would stay with you if they had to stay home too?? Nope, they would be out the door, riding with someone else.

I commend Paul’s ability to produce riders with the confidence and ability to go to the ring with out him. I have been to far too many shows that are willing to hold classes- even under saddle classes so the trainer can watch their horse go around in circles.

I know 99.9% of people on this thread feel what Paul did was wrong and he should suffer forever. I do believe he has a tremendous amount of knowledge and expertise and is an asset to the horse industry. He does have supporters that are just as willing to work hard on his behalf as those working against him

[Erin]

Banned.

Next?

[SGray]

my order must have gotten caught in a snowdrift - none have made it here yet

[hiddenlake]

I can confirm Dr. Hugi was still practicing as of three-four years ago.

[TWF]

REINSTATEMENT Issue is MY concern…his suspension is a fact.

If anyone applies to become a member of USEF…they must abide by current law and further must abide by future new rules…just like everyone else!

[Boberry]

A little Si history…"Despite his rough demeanor, Si was not terribly out of place in the horsy set. He knew horses well, and he could turn the charm on and off when needed. And like all good con men, he figured out a new angle. State Police investigator David Hamm and agent James Delorto of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms”"both now working elsewhere”"pieced together many details of Si’s operation. They say he preyed on the paternal instincts of the wealthy men who wanted to provide the best for their young daughters.

“He loved to get the daughters of well-to-do businessmen and professionals, 12- and 13-year-old girls,” Hamm says. “There’s a whole history of him escalating the price of the horse up and up. He would tell the father of a young girl, ‘Your daughter’s got talent; she could win a blue ribbon. But she needs a better horse.’ Now, what father won’t fall for that? Well, the next thing you know, her $1,500 horse becomes a $20,000 horse.”

The lawmen say that Si would often sell a “glue factory nag” that he doctored up to look good. “By the time the girl’s father started to figure out what was happening, the horse would mysteriously [develop] a broken leg and need to be destroyed,” Delorto says. To keep the heat off, Silas would insist that buyers purchase insurance right away; the policy payouts seem to have calmed the buyers." from the Chicago magazine link below…please be warned it is a disturbing article.

http://www.ipsn.org/news/blood_feud_by_gene_oshea.htm

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

Yes, Harry, you’re right…it was a calculated act…of stupidity.

Nope - it was of greed

Still not taking on the Doctors or Cops?

[Countryhawk]

To PV it is all about money, the horses were killed because of the money and he thinks forgiveness comes with donating money.

To me it does not.

There are people taking in horses, retraining them so they have useful lives, yes that takes money but it also takes the love of the horse, which I haven’t seen that he has shown. Others rescue PMU foals a byproduct of the medical industry, for the love of the horse.

No where has PV etal shown love of the horse, it is all about the money to them. So no he has not changed. It still is about the money.

[big_dawg]

The USEF won’t honor petitions from people who are not members…you are wasting your time getting signatures from “illegal immigrants”, so to speak…they have no voice in USEF rules.
No way to prove they are not bogus signatures. You folks must be from Chicago, where dead folks vote!

[Snowbird]

Then you haven’t read my comments. I keep telling you folks that each of those suspended has the right under the rules to petition for reinstatement as each received a specific letter telling him/her what they needed to do to be reconsidered. Further, you shouldn’t be signing a petition if you are not even a USEF member, otherwise you look like you are just an animal rights terrorist. If your only response is to tell folks how many posts I have made on these 56 pages [6], then maybe you should try an add something or else just turn your computer off.

And you know this how? We should believe you why? your authority comes from where? You should decide when my computer is on or off why?
And, if we’re wrong then why do you bother to read the thread. Are you our caretaker?