This morning was good; hubby and I had to run some errands so we went together and I stayed out in the parking lots/at the entrances while he went into the stores. Daisy met some new people (including a little girl 6-7 years old) and was a lot more relaxed today compared to yesterday. She did get a little overwhelmed at the second stop so I took her back to the car and we just hung out at the car and watched people/cars/shopping carts go by.
Good for you too on recognizing that she was getting overwhelmed and not pressuring her! Bad experiences are worse than no experiences many times.
I have high standards for my crew with regards to obedience, but since they are all rescues I have to deal with what the dice rolled as far as socialization, since Enzo is the only one I’ve gotten as a puppy. Today we had met some friends for a hike and stopped in at a coffee shop to use the restroom. This particular restroom had one of those Dyson turbo hand dryers. Enzo was behaving himself and was in a stand-stay in heel position when I turned the dryer on. This position basically meant it was about 1 1/2 feet above his head when it started up. He took a step back, watched and took it in. In that same scenario my female would have tried to attack the air/dryer and my male would have panicked. I really credit the difference in Enzo’s reaction to his being much more socialized at a young age than the other ones.
Mine got to go to a Santa Claus parade. We sat on the curb so she could see everything. The firetrucks scared her because of how loud the sirens were.
She also got to go to the farmers market, since it is all pavement and asphalt.
We started puppy classes as soon as possible, so that she got puppy play time and socialization.
Bumping up this thread now that I’m considering the question again with the new pup… anyone have anything more to add?
Daisy absolutely did not get enough socializing as a puppy; when I got her at about 12 weeks, she was already fearful. She has come a LONG way but the damage was done. I really want to avoid that with my new pup.
I’m not sure you can do a whole lot with the base personality of a dog. A timid dog is always going to be timid. Trying to socialize the heck out of a timid dog may make said dog more timid and fearful (see “flooding”). A bolder dog will take socialization better and perhaps thrive on it.
I have had a fully vaccinated puppy get parvo by going out and about. At least I assume that’s where he got it from. There were no dog parks, dog classes, or doggy play groups, but I did take him for walks. The parvo nearly killed him, he was a living skeleton. Every morning I expected him to be dead. It was horrible and I was seriously traumatized by the experience even though he lived. It changed how I manage puppies.
My most recent puppy is about to turn 3yo. I protected him like a mamma bear and he did not set foot outside my home/yard until he was 5 months old–literally not a foot. I took him for “walks” in a bag I carried over my shoulder. This included late enrollment in puppy class. He was the oldest puppy at puppy class (not quite 6mo) by the time I felt he was ready to enroll and he took to it swimmingly. However–he was a bold, confident, and stoic puppy from the start. He went through a little phase at about 18months where everyone was stranger danger and that was concerning, true. I kept working on rewarding friendliness and confidence re: approaching people, kept going to dog class, kept exposing and shortly after turning 2yo or so, suddenly decided people were cool. Now he wants to crawl in people’s laps and throws himself at anyone who even gives him a little opening. Maybe I got lucky. His base personality has always been very adaptable, mellow, and even keeled.
I have an older dog who has always been fearful and timid. When she was a puppy I took her all over, including to horse shows. She never got any better/more adaptable. She’s always been terrified of her own shadow. I finally just quit trying to make her more comfortable with the world and now seek to shelter her from new experiences or anything that might scare her. She’s 12yo and now just stays at home by herself when I take the other to class, trials, etc. I’d love to take her with so she wouldn’t have to be alone but it’s pretty obvious that she is much happier in her familiar environment, alone, then she would be tagging along.
So I do think base personality is what it is. I’m not sure you can do much with it. Perhaps something to keep in mind when weighing the pros and cons of socialize early/vs wait for full vaccs. Don’t have grandiose ideas of changing what it already there. Hone it and nurture it, yes, but don’t be disappointed when the puppy you “picked” becomes the dog they were already wired to be.
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I think a lot of the ideas are good. Both are a risk. I’m in the camp that mine go nowhere until fully vaccinated. I’d rather have an under-socialized dog (we’re home a lot more than out & about anyway), than a huge vet bill and/or a dead puppy. Knock on wood - I’ve had the best of both worlds - no illnesses & happy, fairly outgoing dogs. Smallest toy poodle isn’t real trustworthy around strange small kids if they reach for him. We did do a lot of stores that I could put the puppy in the cart & control who pet them. Easier with the toy poodles than the GSD & standard poodle :), GSD is going thru the 18 month “stranger danger” right now - but I’m assuming he’ll come out of it, they always do.
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My two both came from rescues at between 4-6 months. Both are very social dogs anyway so no worries about socializing. That said, I did not do puppy classes with them and waited until fully vaccinated to start beginner obedience at about 8 months. They didn’t go anywhere but the vets until then. I had one at the vets yesterday (for a limp). While there, they received a call and the person answering the phone was repeating symptoms. Sounded like parvo. The puppy under discussion has had two sets of shots so owner has done all the right things in that regard. (not that I was trying to listen in but I was the only one in the waiting room) I was kind of relieved to hear them ask the owner to call when she was in the parking lot and they were going to test for parvo in the vehicle. Even more relieved that I was going to be gone by then. By the way, I adopted my latest on a Friday and the shelter announced an outbreak of Strep Zoo the next Monday. Puppy was already being treated for kennel cough. I ended up treating both cats and both dogs to be safe.
I took the pup out today to Petsmart, and just pushed her around in a cart. She got to meet some people and those people where delighted to pet a wiggly, cute puppy. Keeping her at home for 8 months is way, WAY too risky for me.
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Would you mind clarifying this… do you mean you gave both your cats and both your dogs antibiotics “to be safe”?
Why 8 months? Mine are done by around 16 weeks. I may have missed how old she is, as a rescue perhaps behind schedule?
Holly posted above about keeping the dogs at home until 8 months because they were behind schedule.
I wasn’t clear in my post, but when I was referring to the 8 months it was in regards to my older dog, (who I started this thread about). She was behind schedule and I feel she would be a lot less fearful if she got more socializing done when she was younger. my new pup is not behind schedule for vaccines (she is about 7.5 weeks now).
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I’m t minus 1 week to welcoming our new pup into our home so this is a hot topic for us as well.
Are there any sources that detail parvo active areas versus less common? This will definitely be a question for our vet during our first wellness check regardless.
For our pup due to breed tendencies we likely will be opting to socialize early, often (as positive experiences) but in a smart way. But have a week at least to fret over it still…
I agree about the base personality thing.
My sister picked up her lab puppy about a month ago at 7.5weeks. She’s one of the most timid pups I’ve ever met, none of the litter mates were like that though.
My sister is going to have her work cut out for her, socializing her without scaring her is going to be tricky.
Hi, congrats on your puppy-to-be! Parvo is everywhere in the US and persists in the environment for a long time.
Actually, I need to clarify. I didn’t keep them home until 8 months because they were behind schedule. I didn’t take them to puppy class as they didn’t have all vacs yet so I skipped puppy classes and started with beginner classes. They just happened to be 8 months at the time of the class and I just hadn’t taken them anywhere but the vets before that. It wasn’t a philosophical decision, just how the timing worked out. 
Strep zoo is very contagious and my cats have health issues so I gave antibiotics on the recommendation of my vet in case the puppy had been exposed to the strep zoo to prevent possible contamination of the other dog and the cats.
Hope this clarifies!
Remember that pups go through fear stages during their early development and should be introduced very carefully to new things…especially if she’s a bit timid. I’d keep her with known dogs who are vaccinated and get her used to cars and going places with you to build her confidence at this stage.
I cringe when I see people dragging small, scared dogs through shopping malls…just ignorant. On the reverse, in our dog group there are people who have kept their dogs so isolated and always on leash that they don’t even know how to greet another dog and are snappy and aggressive when a normal do goes up to their rear ends for a sniff.
Once a pup under 12 weeks gets scared, it is very hard to undo that. Just go slowly, at the dog’s pace.
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Interesting article on vaccinating; http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/3-puppy-vaccination-mistakes-too-early-too-often-too-much/
What a bunch of bunk that dogsnaturally is! I prefer science.
Look at some of this garbage (from their article on parvo):
"And you know that vaccines are harmful. Chronic disease often follows vaccination, even a single vaccination
- [I]Parvo vaccine itself was immune suppressive[/I]
- [I]Animals treated homeopathically when sick with parvo had far better survival rates than those treated with the usual drugs"[/I]
I’m going to suggest that no one even visit that website because it is a bit infuriating. I feel stupider for reading anything on there.
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Just a heads up, Dogs Naturally is pretty radical…right up there with Mercola and Natural News.
I plan on doing the Puppy Culture Protocol when my girl has puppies. Socialize early and often, but always error on the side of caution so as not to overwhelm. Take puppy to safer places. Never dog parks or pet stores, or other places where there may be a lot of unvaccinated dogs. I have a couple of good puppy classes to choose from. My keepers will go to at 8 or 9 weeks.
I agree that base temperament is a factor, but the PC protocol aims to give all puppies the tools to deal with frustration and novel experiences in a positive way. It is designed to give puppies confidence, a desire to explore new things, while helping to prevent issues such as resource guarding.
The girl I have now is 2 1/2. She was 12 weeks when we got her. The weather prevented her breeder from getting the puppies outside much, so they spent most of that time in their over sized whelping box (she had 9 left at 12 weeks, of which they kept 5), and in the kitchen and living room.
She was soft tempered by nature, but the lack of stimulation and novel experiences left her very unsure. Then add in a terrifying plane ride, and a scary incident with a Home Depot employee at 14 weeks, just as she was coming out of her shell, and she was very cautious with many people, esp men. That said, from being with her litter mates for so long, she has always been fabulous with dogs.
We did a lot of R+ with her. I didn’t know if I would ever get her to stand for exam, so I could show her in breed. We did a lot of handling classes, just getting her comfortable with the process. Last year we started showing in rally, which she excelled at. When I entered her in the breed ring shortly after, she was pretty much 100% fine, as long as we get to the show early enough to give her time to chill. I was very happy when I saw the video from the group ring, which taken from behind. She stood perfectly for the male judge, with her tail relaxed and not tucked, but it was a long road to get there.
