So in the past few weeks, there have been some conversations on the board about a huge list of suspensions being released with a number of big name trainers on the list. Does anyone know when this list is coming out? I heard that the said trainers will be suspended during Florida, is this true?
I got a copy of a quarter horse magazine the other day - one field of competition where horses are bred and manipulated to be unnatural. The reining, pleasure and contest horses were cute and attractive. The “manipulated” halter ones were bizarre looking - tiny feet, tiny heads, bulbous bodies - just UGLY. They were caricatures of horses.
Is the same thing happening in hunters? We create little robots that lifelessly pack around. When will that start looking bad and unnatural to people?
BTW, I think the top horses put in smooth performances but keep a spark - that is what is so rare.
The witchy witch witch of south central NC.
Unfortunately, this is history repeating itself. Over the past 30 years, I have seen this whole scenario play out several times, only the players change…sometimes that is. Some just never get it! Aside from being BNT’S, alot of these individuals are also horse show judges… go figure.
There will always be some BNT out there who thinks they have an “undetecable” drug. We just have to rely on governing bodies to make sure they stay on top of this.
I guess when someone gets a taste of winning at the big shows, it’s very hard to give that up.
I know that’s diluted thinking, but it’s the only rationale I can come up with.
I know alittle reserpine would have made my horse more focused, but it’s against my principals.
Again I will quote a BNT friend of mine commenting early AM at Harrisburg a few years back " Look around, not many people longeing, there must be a new drug out there".
The heads are what look gross to me. Way too small. The sad thing is that they must not be able to be ridden. The horses pictured for the ridden classed were all very attractive - bulkier classic QH form in western, leaner appendix models in english - they had a nice look and good comformation.
The witchy witch witch of south central NC.
OK that list is too long - and I can’t make it sort by dates.
Can someone tell me the BNT I’m supposed to be shocked and surprised to see on this list?
LondonHannahKirsche
Gryphon Bay & foal on the WAY!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> But the dressage “relaxation” is not the lay meaning of the word. You need the same kind of “relaxation” for dressage as a human needs for winning a 800 meter race. IE, hard to find in a bottle without losing the keenness and brilliance that is even more important.
“Calm” will get you 6,6,6,6… kiss of death in dressage. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But “wired” will get you 4,4,4,… Even more of a kiss of death.
I have ridden at least two horses that had plenty of “relaxation” when schooling, but got “wired” in the ring. The definition of “success” is a submission score better than 4. I am currently experimenting with changes in the warm up routine, which seem to be helping. But I can easily see how someone would be tempted to turn to supplements or medications with such a horse
Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
Arnika, that’s way out of line.
What have I ever said that’s given you the impression that I’m an owner lacking in knowledge? I was raised by professionals, and will one day be a professional. I don’t make assumptions about your horse, what gives you the right to do so about mine?
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bassy:
Have to add, if a trainer isn’t a vet, there is no reason they can be expected to administer medication.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Huh?
I am neother a vet nor a trainer, but I regularly adminster medications, both orally and IM injections. But it is done “under the direction” of a vet.
Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
Yes, clearound, I got that.
The involuntary shudder down my spine was at the thought of WEF show days being even longer than in past years.
Sadly, I mean the last year I was an amateur, before I became a professional. I would have loved it to be my last junior year, but that was only three years earlier.
Tackpud, I sent you a PT. 
Sorry Giddy-up, I may have been overly sensitive. And I don’t know that so many of the 3’ horses are, drugged, I’ve seen more of it in the 3’6" and 4’ classes. However, I unfortunately DO believe that if you want to find the most drugs, check the pony hunters. I know of a couple that needed lots of pharmaceutical “help”.
Leader of the petition to call “trolls” “garage gnomes”
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by oak:
To get back on the subject of the SUSPENSION LIST again here is a interesting fact to read. 
A horse show manager was fined and is suspended from MANAGEMENT for one month. O K that is justifed for his punsishment. BUT guess what during the time he is SUSPENDED he is eligible to JUDGE, COURSE DESIGN, at the show he CAN"T manage. 
Just what is that USEF think if they are going to let someone work at the same show? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What was he suspended for? Usually when show management is suspended, it is for failing to pay someone. So it would make sense to suspend him from anything requiring him to pay someone. But judges and course designers are PAID, they aren’t responsible for paying anyone.
Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
I know someone who was belatedly informed that her horse was champion at the Garden because the horse who won originally had tested positive for something or other. She did not find this out til two or three years after the show in question!
I can’t believe I’ve been out of the country for a week and this is still on page 1… 
I heard that one of the new rampant things is injecting Calcium into the horses. Evidently it slows the heart down, the trainers listen with stethascopes and when it is slow enough they send them into the show ring. Is that sick and demented or WHAT?? 
I’m wondering if this is one of the things trainers are getting busted for. If not it certainly should be. That is just outright abuse!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
Yea, bute certainly has issues associated with ulcers and liver damage, but it isn’t even in the same ballpark as equipoise/winstrol. As far as I am concerned, that is one drug that they would do well to ban from racing and showing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Racing really wouldn’t mind much one way or another if it were banned - I used it as the worst case example of what you might find in a horse off the track. It has generally fallen out of favor in useage on the track. If used as it is intended, it actually is considered safe for use horses and most will have no lasting side effects. Where you get into trouble is with over use - it DOES have legitimate uses. To my understanding (I don’t know this from personal knowledge) Equipoise is much more popular among the halter set than that of racing.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
As for the idea that people seem to think race horses need to detox they are so drugged up, I think you need to take that with a grain of salt. Every discipline has tons of misconceptions associated with it. I haven’t noticed where racing is any worse than the next discipline.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don’t worry about taking it with a grain of salt - I know for a fact its a bunch of hooey. I think that perhaps because they are fit and on the muscle like no other horses when they come off the track, combine that with the fact that they spend a good deal of their time stalled, I’m certain that’s where folks get the idea that they are all drugged up. Their metabolism sometimes goes through changes when they leave the track as well, (nevermind the huge change in lifestyle, diet and exercise) but that is generally blamed on “coming down off drugs”. But trust me, if you have one on Equipoise or the like, it won’t just be ‘up’, it will act like a stallion - in all aspects, if ya know what I mean. There will be no doubt.
BTW - thanks for clarifying the mix up earlier!
Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sam Iam:
Not sure who, but someone made reference to higher penalties on second/third violations. How many violations do you have to get before you are booted out for life? Please tell me that you would eventually get kicked out for life.
Midge, that story you posted about the junior hunter made my stomach turn. That is absolutely horrifying!!! Couldn’t someone have pulled a steward over to see that poor horse while it was on the ground? What exactly does calcium do to a horse, and how in the world was the horse in question able to jog in the afternoon after experiencing such a reaction in the morning? I’m disgusted and speechless.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe you get the boot on your 5th infraction. Rumor has it we will see evidence of that in the near future. If the rumor is true, it could not happen to a more deserving fellow.
IIRC, Calcium depresses the heart rate and can actually stop the heart if administered to quickly (see Midge’s Exhibit A above). Presumably this depressed heart rate is desired effect.
But those of us who heard about this switch to calcium/magnesium noted that this means it is a virtually untestable way to calm the horse (assuming it does that - there is something to be said for the idea that it doesn’t do $hit except endanger the horse’s life and make everyone think the horse is quieter.
I dunno, call me jaded, but I am just about at the point where I think I would rather see a safe controlled drug out there, than all this stuff that is so much more dangerous to the horse.
I half jokingly threw out the idea about allowing x amount of ace in a horse x hours befor ethe class, as long as the horse was duly noted to the judge as being on ace. Then if he found 6 better ace-free trips, maybe that would be a better solution. Because all I have witnessed in the last 5 years is more experimentation.
But I LOVE LH’s idea about increased collection and testing past samples after an adverse determination. I do think there are cases where it is an honest mistake, and I know a lot more where it is a lifelong habitual pattern. This would make it pretty clear which is which!
“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by radio talk:
Well said Beezer!! We’d all like to keep our heads in the sand, but unfortunately we can’t.
C.Boylen, in Art. 409, 1.a) of the 2004 rule book, better known as The No Foreign Substance Provisions, is what I believe Weatherford is speaking of. Also Art. 409 4.b) states the thresholds that are not actionable. But to CYA always fill in the med report. Have found that any questions concerning medications, is worth a phone call to the D & M. They are very nice to speak to.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Article 409 in its entirety is not relevent to the discussion. We’re discussing hunters and jumpers at regular competitions, and they compete under the therapeutic substances rules.
Silver Bells, can you explain more about what the trainer didn’t like about you being hands on? I am surely not a BNT but I can say that my local customers are very hands on and I teach them as much as I can. I like when my customers at the barn are educated! I have never used the expression “My way or the highway”. It sounds like your trainer wasn’t open to communication. Being outspoken can be a problem if it is to “chat” with the other customers and cause a problem, but I can’t see it being an issue if it is between you and the trainer. can you give any examples? J/C.
Owner/Trainer of http://www.geocities.com/plumstedequestrianctr/
i know there were two people on that list that i am very happy to see on there [one listed from two different locations, sneaky sneaky]…cant believe i ever had any association with either of them 
and i was, of course, very unaware of anything happening at the time…
The girl with the horse with the strangest name ever – Caviar 
