This whole list of people getting suspended has been a long time coming, and well deserved I might add.
I am quite sure the suspensions will be followed by everyone saying, " I knew that".
I also speculate that it may be possible for the same offenders to be guilty a second, and quite possibly a third time. Even after getting caught once, word has it, that some were brazen enough to try again…and got caught!
Florida will definitely be interesting this year, and I guarantee some horses caught in this “snag”, will disappear from the show ring.
I certainly don’t think the majority of horses are being drugged but the fact this is occurring and people are getting caught would lead one to wonder just how many horses are being medicated to perform at an acceptable level. Is it 1% or 10%? No one will know until every horse that shows is tested and that won’t happen because of the cost involved is just too great.
I think that it is happening at all is bad enough but to have so many have bad timing by being caught in the act is interesting, don’t you think?
A certain BNT’s staff has been known to stuff other barn’s Sharps Containers with their overflowing needs. 
“B***h in training”
For those of us who do not get the magazine, who EXACTLY has been set down for abuse/drugging issues in this recent scandal so far and what has their penalty been? Does anyone have a tally with suspensions, fines and reasons?
Without a search function even for dates, the USEF list is a looong one. Plus, it doesn’t list any reasons for suspensions, which makes it hard for those of us trying to explore if we even want to train to think about moving up. I know one of my local trainers, Bob Crandall, is on the list, but the reason why isn’t listed…
Yes, DH, you DO have ro report your dex use on the med form. And those limits might (hopefully) even been tightened this year.
As I have posted, I personally know two horses that have foundered to the point of being put down from abuse of Dex - both before the rules were put in place. I also know a nice one that had been sold as a five yr old (after winning a LOT in FL) homebred, but flunked on rotated coffin bones (aka founder)… The owner (whom I knew) NEVER gave the horse meds… HOWEVER, horse spent Florida under the care of a professional who definitely gave EVERY show horse their cocktail before showing… (a friend working for an owner saw this personally, and her owner had NO CLUE it was happening.) All of these examples DID happen before the rule change, so maybe that has been a help…
The Vets to whom I have spoken just rolled their eyes when I begged the question - beyond their count and rising - (again before the rule change)…
Medicating horsea - especially with Dex - is NOT something to be done lightly…
And DH, your older, if only getting a 30 minute hack every day, is clearly NOT fit enough for his job… Try getting him fitter, and perhaps the drug won’t be as necessary…
It’s OUT! Linda Allen’s 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!! 
You know my goats have this remarkable calming ability - I mean to tell you that Thelma & Louise can settle down the most unruly equine beasty. I’m just SURE that if a goat box were procured by the BNT’s and they hauled some Calming Goats from show to show, the need for any and all tranqs would just dis-A-ppear!! 
A Goat for Every Horse, yeah, that’s it…and so much easier!! 
Fine I give up, do it your way: heels up, eyes down!!
I remember a few years ago when they were having the big fight where the AHSA wanted to change the rules to limit NSAIDs - ie, that you couldn’t stack them, and that there was a limit to the allowable levels.
Mr Stewart was quoted in Practical Horseman as saying something to the effect of, “If my clients have just paid 6 figures for a horse and it has a program of two NSAIDS together to help it perform, that’s horribly unfair to them.”
Sorry I cannot dig out the original quote right now. But it sticks in my memory as a big AH-OOOO-GA. As in, who pays $100,000 for a lame horse??? 
Who would go on the record saying that they give these kinds of meds to $100,000 horses?
Sesroh–I think you are correct about “TG”. I believe that’s where she went after “LG”. Too bad, he’s a very knowledgeable Vet just not very ethical.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MareOne:
Re: the show manager who got suspended
If someone is suspended, doesn’t that prevent them from going on to the showgrounds, even as a spectator? So this person certainly would not be able to judge or course design, because then he’d be on the grounds.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not true. Check the rules. You are suspended from holding office and participating as MANAGEMENT from another show.
some of you guys have no idea what you are talking about with these trainers that are suspended for various reasons… sometimes, actually most of the time its not what you think. I understand everyones point of veiw on not trusting them, thinking they are bad and stuff but i wouldnt judge a certain trainer/person unless you know the real story of why they are suspended etc. 
~erin~
-this message was not supposed to come of rude or snobby or anything to let yall know-
The suspended person doesn’t have to change the horse’s name to sell it and get it unsuspended. As long as the new owner can provide proof to USA Eq/USEF that the sale was bona fide and the suspended person no longer has title to or rights to the horse, and that the horse is no longer in the suspended person’s barn or under his/her care or training, then the horse will be off the suspension list (except if the reason for the suspension is failure to pay an indebtedness associated with the horse, then that debt has to be paid off before the suspension will be lifted.)
For example, if I recall correctly, after Lindemann was suspended, the Browns bought Graf George from him for Robert Dover to have for the next Olympics.
I’m guessing that by now, many of the horses on the list who are associated with Ward or others from that era have either died and no one told USA Eq about it, or they’ve been retired, or they were long since sold on and had their names changed and the new owners didn’t bother to go through the process of getting them unsuspended – or didn’t know the horse they were buying was suspended in the first place. The new Horse ID numbers may help with that situation, at least a bit.
So = what do you think of a vet giving long term tranq at the owners request and not telling the trainer???
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dior:
What about stuff like regumate or depo? Is that illegal? Why are some drugs legal (dex and bute and isoxoprene, etc) or stuff like magnesium? Sorry if this has been asked before: I didn’t go through the entire thread.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because hunteers and jumperrs are run under “therapeutic drug rules”. Therapeutic drugs are permitted.
Also, things like magnesion are part of the normal diet. it would be very difficult to determine by testing whether the horse had been administered magnesioum, or smply had a diet with a lot of magnesion.
Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
Just two quick notes:
1.) My BNT main show car Jag.
2.) Yes some sweet hearts are really drug free and calm. If you woke Flintstone up before 7:00 he fell asleep in the pony model class. Boy, I loved that pony!!
I agree with some of the measures suggested up until this point.
I would also think it would be a good idea to make the fines much bigger. In an industry where MANY people have A LOT of money, these fines are a mere slap on the wrist. Why don’t they also come down a lot harder with the fines?
Please feel free to tell me why this would or wouldn’t be a good idea?
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RockinHorse:
I have tried to stay out of this but…
I am dissapointed that some people appear to be justifying the use of drugs and lunging to death because that is what it takes to win, everybody does it, it is the judges fault, etc. If someone is going to make the choice to do something that is both harmful to the horse and illegal, they should at least take sponsibility for their actions and stop blaming everybody else. 
Winning also seems to have become a end unto itself. Yes, I like to win as much (maybe more )than the next person but I also enjoy the journey that gets me there.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> While I appreciate and admire your perseverance with your horse, I’m not sure you understand what an unusual situation you’re presenting. If I owned your horse I would, after seven years, have $105,000 in him in board alone. Not including training, lesson, or show fees. That, is not logical. I seriously doubt I, or anyone else in a position similar to mine, would find that situation satisfactory if the horse was not producing some results for the majority of that time. The horse would have been, in my case, donated or sold on the cheap, and in many other cases, made productive by any means possible. I’m not claiming it’s right, but thats the way that it works, and I doubt it is going to change. It’s really a matter of economics.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Okay so if the horse has to produce results from the get go, then it probably does need artifical short cuts. It takes time to develop a nice horse and that seems to be one of the problems.
My horse, after quite a bit of training goes quietly with out lunging and usually does not play in the corners. He is now ready to do the first year greens. If we do the greens, he will probably be one of the oldest horses in the class (unless FLASH44 wants to show with me since I am guessing our horses are about the same age )because I could not get him that quiet by age 5 or 6 .
~~ Does killing time hurt eternity?~~<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by oak:
Plus they require all shows to have a RED Box (for Needles)Do you really think an exhibitor,trainer,groom etc. are going to come to the Steward, Managaement and ask where it is. I don’t think so. Maybe I’m wrong. Hope So.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don’t understand this part of your post. Sharps boxes are usually placed every three aisles or so. They’re in the barn area, and the point is to make them convenient to prevent dangerous disposal of medical waste.
If your point was that sharps boxes were missing from a particular show, I probably would say something to the ground crew when they came by, as I hate to see people improperly dispose of sharps, since it’s dangerous to horses, exhibitors, and especially the mantainance crew.
Lauriep - are we singing the change the judging standards song again? And i have been remiss in not chiming in!
(But I agree, wholeheartedly with everything you are saying, as usual).
Actually I had what started out as a half-baked idea that was more in jest, but the more I thought about it…
I say we change the judging standards AND legalize ace. Or more specifically a small amount of ace. There is just one teeny, tiny catch… You have to have an “a” (for “aced” ) next to your number (both the one you wear, and on the judge’s card). Yup, if you want to or need to give ace to get around 8 fences, you can do it. It’s just that everyone watching your round will know how you got around, and if 6 people without “a’s” next to their numbers go as well or better than you, then life’s a bitch, ain’t it?
At the very least, there would be less LTDing and quite possibly a greater willingness to address the underlying causes behind the NEED to administer chemical calmers if everyone actually knew how many horses were getting the stuff…
And yes, of course people would still cheat, but I think a lot less horses would be getting a lot less dangerous stuff…
I mean it started out as an outrageous joke of a thought, but the more I thought about it, the less outrageous it sounded. I kind of like the idea of getting credit for being a “non a number”!
It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others…
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tiramit:
Actually, along the education lines, I’d love to have an equine version of the human “Pill Book,” which lists every kind of drug available, why it could be prescribed, common reactions, hazards of combining with another, and the long-term affects of that drug. More than once has a vet prescribed something I later found out wasn’t the best / safest choice (different vets), but had no way to double-check his advice. Heck, I’ve been handed a series of poorly labeled, prepared shots in a single baggy that I’ve had to go back and clarify which was which - and these were drugs with which I was familiar! Internet searches and asking trainers (who, we’ve established could have an ulterior motive) and friends will only get one so far… <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tiramit, you might want to check out “Equine Drugs and Vaccines, A Guide for Owners and Trainers,” written by Eleanor Kellon, VMD. My copy was published in 1995 and has been a fantastic reference, as it gives both the trade name as well as the generic, discusses the action of the drug, typical usage, possible side effects, duration of effect etc. It also contains information about what class each drug is, and (per rules circa mid 90s) whether the drug is permitted under a variety of competition rules.
My older horse gets a tab of bute on the night before he shows. (I take, oh, half a bottle of Aleve and a few adult beverages ) Still, as you note, it is great to have an objective resource to turn to if your horse is prescribed something you want to check out, or if you want to research alternatives to a treatment plan that has been proposed.
It is written in very straightforward language, and as a bonus has some very interesting photos of hoof problems and that kind of thing. It sits on my shelf next to the standard “Veterinary Notes for Horse Owners,” and I highly recommend it to every horse owner as part of a basic library on horse care.
“It is good to have an end to journey towards; but it is the journey that
matters, in the end.”
-Ursula K. Le Guin
[This message was edited by Lucassb on Jan. 04, 2004 at 09:36 PM.]
