I put my faith (and money) in the manager of my mutual fund, but you’re damn skippy I’m pulling out of the fund if they are found to be engaging in market timing or other shady practices.
I still can’t believe people condone drugging horses because other people do it! You are making the problem worse.
If your horse is fresh from being on the road, learn how to freakin ride, or just suck it up and face that you won’t win the class. Really, the world won’t end.
Oh, yeah, BTW- in the AQHA, if the judges pin the “old style” pleasure horse, they get warned & then suspended!! 
I have a question… What would LSD do to a horse?
Would it improve a horses jump because it would have a bit more ‘spook’ at the jump?
<G>
Sorry I coudn’t resist posting this. The question just popped into my head and it seemed funny.
Lucille -
Have you tried progerterone implants on you HOT TB mare? They can work amazingly, but the dosage has to be up there sometimes & many Vets are not familiar with increased doses. They are not harmful, they are a cow product and also work well on some geldings.
Good luck…I’ve been there…
Don’t all vets have to maintain a membership with a governing medical body (state association)? Maybe a whisper in the ear of the veterinary higher ups would do something.
Of course what trainer is going to give the name of their vet to a medical association if it means that vet would be warned off and the trainer couldn’t get their illegal meds anymore?!
Thanks radio…i don’t know that one.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
But I would question the “rat out” idea if for no other reason than this gets to be a whole lot like hearsay. If there is no positive test then how do we know he is telling the truth? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I’m with DMK on this. The USEF has previously said that they can’t respond to people calling in and “reporting” drug rule abuse. They have said they won’t select a horse to test based on a report (understand why, not sure whether I agree, but it is their policy). They have to have the test results.
So “ratting” on other trainers wouldn’t really “buy” anything. Rather different from the insurance fraud cases.
Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
Veterinarians have far more important things to worry about than the drugging of show horses.
Yes, I am sure there are bad apples in the bunch that make these drugs very accessible to trainers. However, most veterinarians are thinking of the good of the horse when prescribing a drug or recommending time off. It is not the veterinarian’s fault if the trainer does not accurately follow the recommendations. That’s called noncompliance, and it happens in human medicine too. Do you always remember your dog’s heartworm pill on time every month? Have you ever been injured and returned to the saddle sooner than your doctor recommended?
I don’t think the final burden should rest with the veterinarian.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sam Iam:
Midge, that story you posted about the junior hunter made my stomach turn. That is absolutely horrifying!!! Couldn’t someone have pulled a steward over to see that poor horse while it was on the ground? What exactly does calcium do to a horse, and how in the world was the horse in question able to jog in the afternoon after experiencing such a reaction in the morning? I’m disgusted and speechless.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sadly, you had to be there at four in the morning to have witnessed it. I do not know if the following is true because I did not witness it, but I heard later that the vet gave it an adrenalin shot to get it’s heart going again. However, I was under the impression that this particular BNT administered his own calcium. If that is the case, I am not sure why a vet would be there, or perhaps I am wrong about the BNT doing his own.
I have witnessed a couple of the BN show vets administering calcium. I would think this would cause a problem with the, ‘First, do no harm’ part of the Hippocratic oath.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Well, in this case, the shows were under FEI rules, which means NO DRUGS AT ALL. I would guess that ist he main reason why this one had only a fine and no suspension, as it was not a performance enhancing drug.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Uh oh - not that this hasn’t come up before - but wasn’t the herbal substance that tests like/contains Reserpine supposedly recommended to the American’s by the EUROPEANS???
Or am I having a bad “memory/deja vu” day?
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Portia:
Tiramit, I’ve got to disagree with this part. 
I prefer the fee for service arrangement we have now, where you pay more drug fees the more you show. After all, some people show one horse in 4 or 5 recognized shows a year, while others show 5 horses in 50 shows a year.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, my thought was that a lump sum once a year would spread out the cost over more people (it could branch out to every discipline in USAEq or whatever its name is now), which could in turn lower the rate for everyone. Somewhat like a discount store - if they sell more, then the price goes down because they could negotiat better deals on storage facilities and testing supplies.
And some horses won’t show but their owners will pay the fee up front (injuries, training issues, whatever). That would leave extra money in the testing fund. And if the shows pay a small testing fee for the right to have a recognized show, then that should cover the people who show more often.
And this fee should be per horse / owner combo.
Just a desk theory without hard evidence to back it up.
…
“Whether you think you can or think you can’t - you are right.” -Henry Ford
So what about a little pony kid whose parents know NOTHING about horses? Are they expected to research the meds too?
~~ Boldly going where no blonde has gone before!! ~~
Not trying to defend Sandstone, but I think she is partly correct, but has not given everyone all the facts in relation to why she feels the way she does.
My understanding is that a vet suggested the use of X drug for a specific medical condition, told the trainers that they could show the horse again in X days, as it was “not testable” at that point. However, that time frame was not correct, hence the positive tests.
In at least a few of the situations that was the facts as I know them. Yes, the trainers are responsible, as they should have checked themselves to find out the correct time frame. However, they were not giving the drug with the intent to enhance performance.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Court@HJ-OH:
where is George Lindemann Jr. these days? **<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
a daddy
Great idea LH! And rather than raise the per show testing fee, why not have it tied into annual dues? If an owner wishes to show his or her horse that year, he or she will have to pay an annual drug testing / storage fee that would cover that year’s testing?
I’m sick to admit that under this system, however, someone could show a drug-free horse most of the year but give him an extra boost for the special year-end class and claim accident. 
…
“Whether you think you can or think you can’t - you are right.” -Henry Ford
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BLBGP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:
The most interesting Notice this month is probably Allison Hecht’s, for falsifying her birth information and showing younger than she was. I wonder how they caught her and proved it. It is unusual that they also directed that she must return prizes from ALL shows where she falsified her age, forfeit all associated points, and pay each show $50.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Was she an ammy showing as a junior?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
she is an older junior, but lied for six years about her age being younger so that she would have extra junior years
Tipperary
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sandstone:
I really don’t care!!!
Sorry if I came off harsh… that was not my intention. I just wish that people would quit accusing every famouse person with drugging horses illegally on purpose thinkig that they wont get caught. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not “every famous person”–just the ones who came up with positve samples and who were found culpable by the USEF hearing process.
Big difference.
Unashamed member of the Arab clique…just settin’ on the Group W bench.
Although I understand the intentions behind the proposals, I can’t say that I would be in support of this numerical, break-down hunter scoring idea. I too am of the belief that the hunter trip is all about the complete picture. By breaking things down into numbers, I think we would lose a lot of the individuality that characterizes some of the top horses in the ring.
For example, it was proposed that “gaits”/“moving” would be weighted more heavily in the open workings, but not, say in the Children’s…What would happen to horses such as Play Right? If anyone has seen this little regular go around, he was an incredible jumper and consistently in the top ribbons, qualifying for/pinning at indoors, etc. He is (too put it nicely) noooot the cream of the crop when it come to moving, to say the least…However, that little guy cruises around that course consistently and effortlessly like it’s short stirrup, beating out the top movers all the time. There’s just something about him, his cute little face, and big heart that so many judges seem to love…but to get technical, and assign specific numbers, I think he may not fair as well.
When I am explaining “the point” of the hunters (vs. jumpers, eq, etc.) to non-horsey people, in the simplest terms, the first word I always use is consistency. Judges pin the trip that flows and maintains a smooth, polished style around the course…playing in the corners or kicking out in a lead change is distracting, and breaks up the flow of a trip. Perhaps we are seeing more of the “deadhead”-type trips, but have you considered how much easier it is to create the illusion of consistency and flow out of the long, lopey, quiet step than the more brilliant gallop? When you are approaching, say, that big single oxer-if you gallop on down to it and get short, it almost always looks like a bigger chip than when you “float” on down, perhaps gradually shortening up to that smaller spot. If your horse has the jump, you can cover it up pretty easy, trust me…
And this is esp. true for the junior riders-many of them do not have the confidence or the eye to march in the ring, pick up a gallop, and hunt down those big jumps. They are drilled in the eq ring day after day, and many are taught to pick and pick until they find that perfect distance-much easier to see and ride to (not to mention more time to adjust) when riding off that slower, more quiet step.
This is not to say this is true for every horse, however. For everyone who keeps saying that all the hunters are looking lifeless, dead, etc., I think we forget that our present idea of the “best hunter” (our regular who is currently the most winningest horse, and certainly one of the most spectacular to watch) is Strapless. They have a breyer of her, for pete’s sake! If anyone has seen her and Emily gallop around a course and launch over 4’ oxers with what looks like an additional foot to spare, you know that today’s riders, trainers, and judges are not only looking for the deadest horse in the ring.
Well devildog, maybe they should, but they don’t want to know. They want to ride, and enjoy their horses, and show. They want to be able to leave the barn and go for a swim, or lunch, or shopping, not hang around until feeding time to watch what goes in the buckets. These are the people that sponsor shows, and pay their trainers daycare, and purchase horses. We need them. These people support our business. That’s your key word. This is a business, an industry, and it’s a SERVICE industry.
Amen Lauriep!
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
