For LEPEnterprises;
Stewart, Donald JR.
Ocala, FL.
Terry
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kinsella:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
You know, if you just stick to the basics to feed your horse and use training methods to change his behavior, you don’t have to worry about accidental positives.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don’t think Todd needs to change any training methods - especially seeing as how Oh Star is not currently in training, but on STALL REST. I am sorry that not every one lives in the perfect world you apparently do, but believe it or not, accidents do happen.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Kinsella, I keep rereading my post and I just don’t see where I made a reference to Todd. Will you please point it out to me?
Ok, Flash, whatever you say.
The same things have been happening for 30 years or more, and it hasn’t changed. In fact it has gotten worse. So I choose to deal with what IS. How to have a level playing field for all and keep the horses comfortable.
Portia, I’m there! I wonder how many of the old judges who loved a horse to really run and jump, and could tolerate some “play” are still around? I used to love to watch a good hunter class, because there was some zing! to it. I don’t get the same thrill anymore. It is pretty boring…
The riders will also have to be able to RIDE a horse that is fresher, and wants to take them to the jumps. I know that a lot of the lunging I had to do over the years was not because the horse would play in the ring, but because the rider was afraid of a horse that pulled, and wanted one they had to constantly KICK! 
Laurie
mhm the enhanced horse wins the class ??? saddlebags i think like you do the same riders and horses will be on top…but do not agree about training… bnt that i know work very hard and long hours in the saddle…i also doubt that you have to worry about enhanced horeses at the small a and b shows but you might have to check the riders …drugs are bad for horses and people…
Our old family cook (she lingered around for three generations, bless her heart)… anyway, she couldn’t get herself around the word “confusion”. Invariably, she would say “confusement”. Naturally, we all knew what she meant.
And, my mother’s gardener always referred to Mom’s favorite shrub as a “hygeranium”, rather than a hydrangea… 
“He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of his devotion.”
Author Unknown…
C. Boylen,
I’ve read your posts and my own several times now. I went back and deleted my initial comment as I think it WAS too harshly worded. I don’t agree with your opinions but did not mean to start a personal war.
I believe that if a client is not educated then it is the trainer’s responsibility to not take advantage of that fact. If a trainer or rider is found to not be acting in an ethical manner, (as evidenced by suspensions) then they should not be welcomed back into the ranks with a nod and a wink.
This IS a service industry and it is better served by honest, caring people. If all the cheaters were turned in, then the ones left would be on an even footing.
Hey I have a bright idea!!! howabout everyone on here stop wasting your time comming up with advice that will never be used and saying how ashamed you are of this trainer or that trainer when you dont know them, the situation, or anything about what went on at all! I am not condoning the use of all the drugs that are on the market I am however pointing out that no matter how much you are saddened by this or that you arent going to change anything with your whining!!!
LordHelpus - the link is still on the first page of this thread, second post down, click on the word ‘this’. I scanned it pretty quickly this AM saw a few new names. I just quickly look for names with two dates beside them…
And apparently Barney Ward is still profiting from selling horses. A friend who rides with a certain BNR on the west coast told me that Barney is sending that BNR several jumpers to ride. They can’t be officially owned by Barney. I don’t know whose name he puts as owner. Must do some investigating…
“A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!” Shakespeare’s Richard III
I’m sorry but I still think a horse should not need drugs. I showed with a BNT for about 15 years and the last horse I had was supposed to be my best horse. This horse was great at the shows and a nut at home. Needless to say after about 4 shows I put things together. I then decided to bring the horse home and sell him. I could not sell him and ended up donating him.
I really resented my trainer for lying to me and I decided at that point to do it on my own. This horse cost me tons of money but out of anger I found the strength to show and train on my own. So should I be upset with the trainer I trusted and lied to me or should I thank her for giving me the strength to go it on my own?
I thank her for giving me the strength to go it on my own. Now I know my horses are well schooled and not on drugs. I like it this way!!!
[This message was edited by OLD A/O on Nov. 08, 2003 at 09:43 PM.]
Thank you onthebit. I was just going to say that.
Sorry but that rule about being on management grounds is really not realistic at all. First, it punishes those who do not cheat (me!) Second, how do you define what warming up for a class is? Third, you couldn’t ride or warm up prior to shipping in to a day show? Also, in Florida or some of the bigger shows, management doesn’t own the 1000 acres or so it would have to provide for schooling.
If the majority of top officials and top trainers and major competitors really wanted to stop abuses, they could do a much better job of it, not the token enforcement we have now. It’s a bit like Queen Elizabeth not wanting to behead Mary Queen of Scots, her rival: she didn’t want to set the precedent of killing off queens, since she was one!
[This message was edited by Mom on Dec. 11, 2003 at 11:35 AM.]
Heck, in racing the Lasix’d horses have an L next to their name on the card, don’t see why the aced horses can’t have a nice little (red) “a”…
Brilliant, DMK! 
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madeline:
The second contributing factor to this transmogrification is the proliferation of …<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Medeline wins the “Best Use of Four Syllable Words in One Sentence Award”
WELL DONE, Madeline! Your 3’ high gold painted aluminum statuette, with a fake silver nameplate on the bottom will be to you soon. 
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hahaha. I get to learn new GRE words on the BB!
I think I am actually getting somewhere on these applications…but then again I may be lying to myself.
Centre Equestre de la Houssaye
Very sorry to see names I recognize on the list. Always enjoyed watching Oh Star - such an enthusiastic jumper! Florida may be a bit different this year. Anyone know who’ll be riding Mr. Gill’s horses?
FLASH44 & C BOYLEN make perfect sense in their most recent statements. This industry is definitely in great need of “policing”.
Beware of Dex, it will founder a horse. I have seen this first hand at the previous barn I was affiliated with. It’s a shame to see a horse standing in ice to ease foot heat & pulse. To see an animal walk in such pain. Like so many other chemicals that are used to “quiet” a horse… trainers think more is better… not even giving the possible side effects a thought.
one of the great things about threads like this is that as we discuss the issues we become better educated about a myriad of matters: about the costs of testing; about other people’s thoughts on drugging and those that drug; about ways any of us can suggest regarding how to deal with the issues in a fair manner…
I had no idea about the costs, that the Fed. owned the lab, etc until recently (in relative terms re my riding career) and would have thought quite differently about the fees before learning these things (and I have the lovely Portia to thank for my education - P, I really appreciate you’re having gotten me involved)
“That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death by a jackass, and I’m just the one to do it,” --Texas congressional candidate John F. Parker.
[This message was edited by SGray on Dec. 17, 2003 at 05:12 PM.]
I’m only going to add one more post here…
I resent the attitude that this isn’t rampant in all other disciplines or in Europe…cheaters exsist everywhere and once big money gets involved… 
I remember well the Dressage horse in California found to have been surgically altered to improve carriage…that guy went to jail…so I don’t want to hear about the “purity” of other areas of the sport.
I have also personally witnessed ridiculously open displays of drugging at those local level shows where owners were duped into thinking the kid was on a suitable horse.
Many, many, many owners do not endorse nor do they participate in knowingly bringing a doped up horse to the ring and most trainers, even on the upper levels, would be horrified at having their name on “the list” thus are very scrupulous NOT to show under performance
enhancing drugs.
That threat actually does deter most.
Call it the underbelly of the sport…down there with the horse killers…but it’s just that-an underside.
Not representitive of everybody nor a reason to condemn anybody who shows.
The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That’s the way it is.
[poltroon mutters again under her breath why it is that the Notices of Penalty are not published on the website, and archived there, so that “so-and-so was suspended in the past” can be verified and the reason is readily available. Seems more fair to everyone.]
RADIO TALK you are right on the money!! We as owners, need to be involved, and hold our trainers accountable to us and our horses.
Up until 2 years ago, I used to ride with a trainer that is currently on the suspension list. I was disappointed, but not at all suprised to hear of his suspension. When you ride and show at a barn, where you are basically told “It’s my way or the highway”…Head for the highway as fast as you can! In my case, I was too “hands on” and very outspoken, so I was asked to leave or “backoff”. I pretended to “backoff”, spent 2 months looking around for another barn. I found an old friend who had just moved to a new place. I called my trainer at the time, informed him my horse would move by the end of the day. It was perfect timing, since everyone was at the Washington Horse Show. Looking back now, it was the best decision I could have made for my horse and myself!
I have no regrets, and would be a liar if I said that I never thought of using “a cocktail” to quiet my horse. Especially while having a beautiful trip, only to have my horse spot something outside the ring and act simple. So I just have my tantrum, have the horse longed alittle, and try again.
