THE suspension list

[Silver_Bells]

As many have mentioned in countless threads on this BB, the horse industry is completely unregulated. It’s a hobby to most, and a business to others…

BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND… This serious issue of illegal medicating in the show ring and other discipline competitions, will continue as long as we all allow it to do so.
We don’t have to point fingers, we all know who drugs their horses. Rest assured, all one has to do is listen to the chatter around the shows.

Let us not forget, and spare no conscience to those found guilty.

[Weatherford]

Isn’t is the ultimate irony that JC is on the new anti-dopping committee…

It’s OUT! Linda Allen’s 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!!

[Flash44]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
And there is a big difference between an older horse still in good health who is more comfy with a tab of bute a day, and the younger horse in his prime who still gets a list of meds before going into the ring.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From p. 5. I realize there is a time and a place for meds, but when all the horses in the barn get them every show, you got to wonder what is going on with the training of these horses that they need so much stuff.

So you won’t get a ribbon without them? Boo hoo.

[horsebiz]

The trainers have to be getting the drugs from someone, shouldn’t they be accountable as well??

[tjh82703alb]

What would you do to get suspended? are these top trainers or just people at shows? DOes any one know what any of these people have done to be suspended?

[J_Turner]

What about limiting the number of times a horse can show in a year? Number of days. Or classes. Most states regulate the number of innings a high school athlete can pitch in a week, along with other regulations in other sports. Something like 25 shows a year or not more than 200 classes (average of 8 jumping classes per show), not including qualifying shows like Devon and indoors and other equitation finals. When you think of it, that’s a LOT of jumping.

I know you can’t regulate what you do at home, but it might get horses on a better schedule with more “at home” time.

My Photo Albums

“When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes.”
– Shakespeare, Henry V

[radio_talk_Aefvue_Fa]

DH its not what part of the country you are from that denotes the cars. BNT’s and those that want to imitate them are all headed for the fancy car routine. Been happening for quite some time.

People will always imitate those they want to be like. Be it the BNT or the Olympic rider. That also goes for the drugging problem we are seeing. Many have no idea why some of these drugs are given. They just know it works for whats their name, so why not? Some happens due to the trainers actually being taken. Here they have spent their clients hard earned funds, they’re going to make this horse be what it was sold as. Others, it’s just easier, plain & simple.

DH, you never did answer whether you had looked up the long term effects of Dex. You might want to rethink what you’re giving to him. There are other options. Not nearly so invasive or having long term effects on your horses health. All horses do creak. Given the amount of work show horses have to do. Dex is a quick fix, but its lasting effects can be more devastating than its fixes.

[khobstetter]

I thought Reserpine was injectable only???

http://www.foxpointefarm.com
http://www.go-sho.org

[radio_talk_Aefvue_Fa]

Thats a great idea J. Turner. But how would you keep track of this? The points get sent in, most electronically these days. But if a horse doesn’t place, it won’t show up. Even tho it was entered. Entries would be sent in, but what it would take to build a program might be too expensive to undertake. And as many have posted, people who are going for points, keep taking their horses down the road.

[RockinHorse]

If trainers administered a drug (or okayed the vet to do it) because they thought it would not test, that, IMHO means they thought that they could get away with something, not that they are innocent.

~~ Does killing time hurt eternity?~~

[Magnolia]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Not bragging just pointing out that – unless the species has changed that much in 20 yrs – it is possible to keep even older horses going with less drugs and more attention to fitness and individualized daily care. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How true. Fitness is a huge deal for eventers, and though it would seen that their sport would have more wear and tear, their horses seem to stay quite sound with no help. I would think that asking a horse to show year round while confined to a stall most of the time is detrimental to an animal designed to be constantly moving. When I showed HJ, our horses got an hour of turn out and not much else. Many got some bute or whatever, and not many were over 12, much less over 15. The barn I rode at with eventers and hunt horses had full day turnout and none of the guys were on bute, and even horses over 20 were still going strong, despite a lifetime of hunting, eventing and dressage training. If these horses can keep on keeping on (and they are warmbloods, TB’s, QH, any breed you can think of), it is pretty sad to justify having to give a 9 or 10 year old bute so he can canter around 4 or 5 3’ courses in comfort.

My goal used to be to do A hunters, but really, what I hear is beginning to turn me off. The sad thing is that limiting the show schedule would probably save everyone a bunch of grief and make life easier for the horses AND riders and everyone else involved. At the end of the day, I bet the trainers would be just as happy to spend more time at home, even if it reduced income.

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

[buryinghill1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunt_jump:
Maybe we should look at showground requirements and start requiring more (and [larger] in my opinion) paddocks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Paddocks at Washington? in Harrisburg? Paddocks in Lake Placid? Paddocks in OK City? Paddocks in KY HP? Yes, it sounds wonderful - turnout for all… But I don’t think it’s practical. And some trainers do NOT turnout. You think John Ammerman is gonna install paddocks for 600 horses in VT? Where?
I’d suggest promoting new standards of judging hunters (and hunter seat equitation). The hunter ring is starting to look like the western pleasure division (except for Ms. Betty, of course, galloping down to the jumps-god love her ). Get the hunter judges to accept a head shake, a tail wring and even a gentle romp. Would you want to hunt a “dead quiet” horse? Not me!
It’s SO ironic that quite a few from the licensed hunter judges are going down – I wish this were a wake up call

[DMK]

I think when you get your name published in the magazine and have your “term” announced, the opportunity to present your case for innocence has come and gone. Does that mean justice has been served in every case? Of course not. Life just doesn’t work out that way. A very small group of people get a bum rap, others get away with murder (literally) and for the most part, justice is served.

But I don’t think it isn’t quite “innocent until proven guilty” when it comes to the USEF. I think once you are hauled up in front of the committee it is more like a presumption of guilt, and you get to try and prove you are innocent. On the other hand, unlike the justice system, your presumption of guilt is kept private (by the USEF, anyway ) until the outcome. Not exactly a Kobe moment…

“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan

[Madeline]

Now if we could only combine Weatherford’s scoring system with some more interesting and varied course design…

madeline

[MHM]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ridin’ Fool:
After reading all this, I have two very random thoughts:

1. So, drug testing is random, correct? This summer, I started to think they were following me from show to show. I was tested at 3 out of 5 shows - I was in the ribbons at each show but at various levels (from 1st to 6th). I don’t even give my horse bute at a show, so it didn’t worry/bother me, but after reading all of this, why bother testing and re-testing the same horse/rider combo who consistently shows up negative?
   <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was told once by a drug tester that she picked the horses at random as they came out of the ring, but that she tried to pick ones that looked sweet, since she would be in close quarters with them for an hour or two. So maybe your horse looked extra sweet!

Also, I believe the drug testers are usually hired locally, so they would have no way of knowing what horses were tested at a show in a different location the previous week.

[MsHunter]

FWIW… The only thing ANYONE on this board can control is his or hers own situation. I am very uncomfortable reading about the amount of presumptions made about others on these boards.
If you and your horse are happy that is ALL that matters in the realm of things. In NJ we have a STRONG schooling show circuit. Hmm, no rules, no suspensions, no fines, and drugging horses uneducatedly is rampant. I know for a FACT of a local barn with a LNT who thinks she is a BNT who had the vet come out and administer tranq, bute and banamine to EVERY HORSE AND PONY and the same amount to each.
Now that to me is a MUCH worse offense than ANY BNT getting suspended for possibly testing positive for being one iota over the legal limits. Come on, we all administer Banamine for colic or upset stomach don’t we? Well, banamine for one if I am correct is 12 hours out!!! Just one example. Be careful about making judgements on trainers and their abilities by virtue of a suspension list.

Owner/Trainer of http://www.geocities.com/plumstedequestrianctr/

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by War Admiral:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I’m not sure that everyone understands the fact that the sale or purchase of just one horse, or the gain or loss of just one customer can make or RUIN someone in this business. Protecting their home and family and business from financial ruin. Murders have been committed over less than that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Y’know, Chanda - take a look at the latest unemployment figures in this country. There are PLENTY of people facing ruin. Are they murdering their bosses and sabotaging the investments of their former employers? No, they are not. Every lawyer on this board, every vet on this board, every stockbroker or investment banker on this board, anybody here who is in a professional and/or service industry, I can guarantee you, has lost at least one very lucrative client over the course of his/her career, and I can guarandadgumteeya that not ONE of them has ever committed murder for it.

I’m getting really tired of reading your rationalizations and excuses for these people’s behavior. Horse trainers, if anything, need to be held even MORE accountable for their own actions than Joe Q. Citizen does - because they hold a fiduciary position where people trust valuable investments to them.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Read for comprehension.

[horsepop]

There have been many good points posted from both the pro and con sides, however, if the trainer is that worried about their job because the horse cannot perform without medication of this magnitude, are they that good of a trainer to start with.
If they pick a horse for a client that needs this additional help to win then they have begun the cheating process by choosing this particular horse to start with.
The BNT’s make a good commission for finding good horses that compete well,but are some buying cheaper horses and selling them with big price tags when they think they can drug a horse to success?
I think sometimes trainers, riders, and owners, figure they can do what ever it takes to win. But when they get caught they can play dumb and say they didn’t realize it was a band substance. Give me a break when you are competing at this level of competition you better know right from wrong.
I believe most BNTs know which drugs are acceptable and how much time must pass before the animal may perform in competition.
I am sorry for all the folks who lost their trainers temporarily. But if USEA could find the violators, I’m pretty sure the clients know what is going on too.
Maybe the drugging will slow up after this incident, if not forever, maybe for a season.

[Silk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Eq is a much more level playing field, it rewards those who can trult ride and train and it is more equitable horse-price wise. You can train most anything to be adecent eq mount if you put in the time and effort. It’s more of a sport.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are joking, right? Because paying 100,000 to lease a horse for the finals makes the Big Eq division EQUITABLE? You can train almost anything to be a decent eq mount??? I have to disagree.

>>It’s not bragging if you can back it up!<<

[Medievalist]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by First Gold:
If that is true, then what is the point of the suspension? Is there any way for USAE to truly enforce it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well it depends on how you look at it. He won’t be able to show himself or his horses or coach people at shows, so he will lose that money…but I really don’t think it will affect his real clientele. They can school with someone else at shows.

once again…i am just guessing here based on what I know other people with banned trainers do. please no one take my word as gospel.

ummmm yeah. I totally need someone to do these grad school admissions essays for me
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