If he is on the list, why not post his name here also? Since the suspension is official and it is a matter of public record, why not make it really public?
Or are we worried about hurting the feelings of the suspended trainers?
"When I die, I want to die like my grandfather-who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car."Trainers giving shots need to realize this…
In a court of law they are “practicing medicine without a license”…
THAT was proven in a case just recently …giving IV injections constitues “practicing medicine”…if we inject a perscription medicine, we are indeed practicing medicine by defination…
Open us up to A LOT of legal issues…
I don’t believe that bipolar can be diagnosed except by clinical/behavior evaluation. But I’m no expert, I just watched the segment this am and was shocked that these tykes were being medicated using such powerful drugs. I remember the Prozac controversy of a few years ago, and the negative effects it seemed to have on some teens, including suicidal/homicidal thoughts and behaviors. If I had a child whose behavior was so unpredictable, I’d certainly hope that lots of treatment options would be exhausted before my child received this type of medication…but that’s just my opinion.
The vets may be available at the larger A shows, but at the smaller rated shows around here most vets are only on call – I’m betting I would end up with another office fee to pay a vet to sit on the grounds all day –
It’s not that I’m opposed to paying a few bucks to keep people honest and horses safe, but the integrity of the vet who’s on call for some local rated shows has been questioned more than once – I’m not sure this guy wouldn’t give performance enhancing drugs to a few of his client’s horses at a show –
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RioTex:Of course, you have the right to ignore me. 
Not trying to start a fight with anyone. I’m surprised that dex has not been moved to the reporting list as it’s use is not always focused on its anti-inflammatory properties.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have talked to a lot of vets, because most horse people seem to think dex makes them quiet. They all have said that they feel it is some kind of a placebo effect. It does have such good anti-inflam properties that many of them feel it might solve some minor hitch that don’t cause lameness but might cause some discomfort when they swap leads, for example. It might be the kind of thing that keeps the horses from being ‘truly quiet.’ I find it helps my older horse simply be happier at a horse show when he might be doing 3 courses a day instead of his normal 30 minute hack and a few jumps thrown in (he really has never looked at jumps or needed a lot of jumping to be ready to show or do anything).
I am concerned that if we “hunter people” can’t learn to get ourselves together, the Federation is going to take away our right to choose between No Foreign Substances and Therapeutic Provisions. That would be a real shame as there are lots of horses out there whose jobs are made easier with a little help. Help under the rules.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>When each of us as individuals are capable of saying NO and sticking with it, even if it means changing trainers, we can as a group be heard. Until then, let’s let the sanctioned parties pay more than a measly share of the budget for future testing. I have no doubt that mistakes can be made, but if I run a red light, I am just as guilty if I claim I did not see it.
http://www.trinityhillfarm.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This comment got me thinking. Does anyone acatually condone the use of illegial drugs?? I mean they are used… But I’d be interested if someone as on an alter ego and they admitted that they used an illegial drug.
I don’t know anyone who uses illegial drugs. I’m sure it happens. I mean people do it, and they aren’t exactly going to walk up to me and say Richard guess what tranquilizer we are using that doesn’t test… Oh well
Why D’ya Do It?
By the way, DH, your jumper sounds like a nice guy… Keep an eye on those feet! 
It’s OUT! Linda Allen’s 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!! 
It is really sad that the industry puts winning above the well being of the animals. Isn’t that why we all got into this sport in the first place? Because we loved the animals and just enjoyed riding–not because we were obsessed with winning (competitions weren’t even a thought when we could barely post the trot). It’s so sad. I have to imagine that winning in this way is a shallow victory. How good can it feel to win knowing you cheated to get there???
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buryinghill1:
Drug testing at racetracks is not comperable to horse shows. Racetracks are accountable to taxpayers, bettors and their state gambling commissions. Having experience in the racing commission I can tell you how different is racing and showing accountability.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No doubt they are very different. Using it as an example of what works. Too bad about the accountablility differences…
Oh, and to add to my earlier post. Just so Sandstone thinks I’m “qualified” to comment on this subject. I used to ride and show with one of the trainers rececently added to the list. He got a 6-month vacation. The reason I left his barn was he was just a little too slick with a needle and even though I specifically told him I did not want my horse drugged he did it anyway and then charged me for it on my bill.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>including one not physically gifted enough to be competitive at the A’s in hunters<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Then how would it make a good equitation horse? Eq horses - the good ones - aren’t the horses that can’t do the hunters or can’t do the jumpers; they’re good eq horses. You can’t train every horse to be a decent eq horse: some of them just aren’t cut out to be one. Even in the equitation, the horse is still part of the overall picture and it does reflect on how well or poorly the rider rides. And if the horse looks lumbering or uncoordinated and can’t jump or canter, even if the rider finds all the jumps, chances are they’re not going to be competitve. That’s why people will pay a lot of money for a good (not necessarily push button/packer) eq horse, even in the amatuer divisions, though it isn’t as competitve/crazy 
as the junior eq’s.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet: Well, I wouldn’t expect the vet to tell me when it would be “clear”, but I certainly have had the vet ask me, before giving something therapeutic: “are you going to any recognized competitions soon?” and, when I told them when (sometimes some 4 weeks away) then say: “then you better file a D&M report”.
If you are using a drug for a legitimat non-therapeutic purpose (e.g. clipping ears), then WHO are you going to ask “how far in advance should I odo it?” I doubt the D&M committee would give you a frim answer on that.
Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have never had a vet ask me about when I was going to go to a competition. But, then again, the last time I really had the vet out for anything other than routine vaccinations, etc. it was for a dysmature newborn foal and he was not going to any competition very soon .
But, really, I would always go to the D&M committee despite what the vet says. I have a horse that needs Dermosoden (sp?) to have his mane pulled. I always plan it well in advance of a competition (a couple of months - I pull it short!) but I would expect that the D&M committee could give me some idea of the clearance time. But they are not going to give me a firm answer either.
I have found that the D&M committee is very responsive to questions about different treatment protocols and no trainer should be reluctant to call them unless said trainer has something to hid.
Nina
yup, I agree - a happy horse enjoying his job looks a lot different from a tail wringing sulky animal with a piss poor rider, but I think some judges treat both similarly.
And if an ammie is riding one of these happy horses, and doing a darn good job of it, it does not necesarily count in their favor.
“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan
Because a blood test that comes back with positives for both bute and banamine will get you in trouble. Known as “stacking”.
Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
To any of the moderators: What is the most active topic you can remember on the BB before this one came up. Do you have any numbers of viewers and responders?
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weatherford:
The increment system DOES need an overhaul - but not, perhaps, in ways people are thinking…
I really like the system of points for clear rounds (Jumpers in Ireland til they get to a certain level) AND points per horses beat - NO EXTRA points for Champion or Reserve (you already HAVE more points). Perhaps some SCALE of points indicating the QUALITY of show (but, that, by definition is another, uh hornets’ nest ) The AHQA uses the 1 pt per 5 horses beat (1/2 for 3) and it allows them to make award on the LONG TERM (lifetime of the horse) as well as the short term (annually). This, to me, makes sense - AND it would also give people some perspective on the divisions - for example, that horse that won Reserve at XXX show, may have only been competing agains 3 horses and probably won the hack! So while these horses may get mega AHSA points for this “win”/competition, in actuality, they didn’t do much - and by AQHA standards would have gotten 1/2 point and ONLY in the classes they won…
Lifetime achievement award for a horse (and especially for amateurs - who don’t get to show much) give people who haven’t a chance of winning national or zone awards, a GOAL…
Of course, the other change that these 70 pages point to is a change of the way hunters are judged. What happened to DIFFERENT priorities for different divisions?? I happen to LIKE the idea of a “dressage-like” score sheet - not that it has to LIMIT the course builders, but that it gives the judges an opportunity to numerically differentiate between JUMPING, between fences, manners, suitability, brilliance, etc. It would take a LOT of work to develop these, but I think worth the effort.
I have proposed the two above ideas several times over the past three or four years, and, essentially, except here on the BB, they have been ignored.
There is no doubt, something has to be done - AND if we can approach the problem from BOTH sides - increased fines and drug testing as well as changes in the SYSTEM, we might make a step further toward saving our horses.
_ It’s OUT! _ Linda Allen’s 101 Exercises for Jumping _ co-authored by MOI!!! _ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You know what might be kinda cool… Is to be able to put CH infront of your horses name if it wins a certain ammount- like what the saddlehorse people do.
Why D’ya Do It?
What do you have to give a horse 72 hours out for training???
And a horse that was given something 60 days before a show that was for a legitimate issue, and it was honestly thought would be out of his system WAY before the show, should have resulted in a very small fine and light suspension (assuming this was the first time this excuse was used by the trainer/ower/rider and they were backed up with records of the treatment).
Lord Helpus? Was there an answer to the quiz? What was it??
(Did I win? Do I get a prize? )
if you were able to see what each horse tested for in each of these barns you would see that it was the same thing in each horse in each barn… yes the trainers should have known for themeselves and not listened to an extremely reputable vet… it cost them big time. Maybe I think of this differently because I have actually heard what the trainers have to say? or because I have more info?
I never criticize untill I know whats going on. I was really mad and upset when i heard about these trainers haveing horses that tested. I thought that this was an owful sport. Then I found out why such a large group was suspended at the same time. Yes it is always the trainers fault. But thats like the saying ‘its never the horses fault, only the riders’ (which i think is true usually). If you have a dirty stopper with no physical problems does that mean the rider is a bad rider? no its a bad horse… Thats kind of like saying everyone with more tehn one horse that tested is a bad person. You have no way to prove that. And saying that really isnt fair to anyone.
So many people on this board seem to think that everyone that wins cheats and drugs their horses and all the riders are just little princesses at the big shows. THat is not true for the majority.
The number of people who drug on purpose is so small compared to the majority but for some reason that is all a lot of people focus on.
Marion
Amalia
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