The Triple Crown Races 2019

[snaffle1987]

@Palm Beach

This is the most bizarre post ever.

we can agree to disagree on things Palm Beach. The beauty of life and what makes the world go around is differences. Again, I am not the one wandering around the COTH forums with an entitled attitude such as you in every topic discussed on here.

If you’d like to view my opinions in a summary, here they are:

1. Omaha Beach needs time before coming back. Expect a late Summer campaign. Clark Handicap could very-well be in his sights
2. Country House is not my cup of tea. Perhaps because of Prat’s attitude in handling all of this; he protested even though he was unaffected because he knew he could take the win away. If he was actually affected by the activities I wouldn’t be against the ruling. Good horse, yes. Honest horse, yes. Gutsy horse, yes. Breeders Cup winner… No. I hope he proves me wrong. I hope he enters the Belmont. His maternal line is quite interesting.
3. Gary West needs to zip his mouth and just move on. It sucks, yes. It’s unfortunate, yes. Keep on track for the breeders cup and prove your horse is the best. Gary West’s initial comments following the DQ were classy. Then things got ugly several hours later. I think part of his comments are fueld by the trainer who is irate.
4. Mark Casse and War of Wills owner are class. War of Will is the best looking horse on the TC trail this year. I think he has a big future.
5. War of Will started the mess in the final turn going to space that was nonexistent combined with MS making the same move right simultaneously. It put them both in danger. MS gets set down because he won.
   6)Maximum Security was the best horse on derby day who had a shitty trip on a shitty track. I hope he gets redemption. He doesn’t know he lost

[Where_sMyWhite]

@snaffle1987

we can agree to disagree on things Palm Beach. The beauty of life and what makes the world go around is differences. Again, I am not the one wandering around the COTH forums with an entitled attitude such as you in every topic discussed on here.

If you’d like to view my opinions in a summary, here they are:

1. Omaha Beach needs time before coming back. Expect a late Summer campaign. Clark Handicap could very-well be in his sights

>> Not according the reports I read… per Mandella, Haskell or Pacific Classic are possibilities. You connected somehow to Mandella that we don’t know about?

2. Country House is not my cup of tea. Perhaps because of Prat’s attitude in handling all of this; he protested even though he was unaffected because he knew he could take the win away. If he was actually affected by the activities I wouldn’t be against the ruling. Good horse, yes. Honest horse, yes. Gutsy horse, yes. Breeders Cup winner… No. I hope he proves me wrong. I hope he enters the Belmont. His maternal line is quite interesting.

>> Prat did not “take the win away”. When the stewards ruled that Maximum Security had interfered with War Of Will, Long Range Toddy and Bodexpress, the stewards moved Maximum Security behind the worse placing horse interfered with.

3. Gary West needs to zip his mouth and just move on. It sucks, yes. It’s unfortunate, yes. Keep on track for the breeders cup and prove your horse is the best. Gary West’s initial comments following the DQ were classy. Then things got ugly several hours later. I think part of his comments are fueld by the trainer who is irate.
4. Mark Casse and War of Wills owner are class. War of Will is the best looking horse on the TC trail this year. I think he has a big future.
5. War of Will started the mess in the final turn going to space that was nonexistent combined with MS making the same move right simultaneously. It put them both in danger. MS gets set down because he won.
   6)Maximum Security was the best horse on derby day who had a shitty trip on a shitty track. I hope he gets redemption. He doesn’t know he lost

>> Maximum Security did not get set down because he won :rolleyes: Maximum Security got set down because the stewards ruled he interfered with other horses.
”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

[Palm_Beach]

@Sunflower

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/triple-crown/west-plans-lawsuit-war-of-will-actually-caused-the-infraction-not-our-horse/

This has an interesting frame by frame slo mo shot.

So MS connections now saying War of Will caused the whole problem?

Hmmm.

You are right to doubt. Saez had the rail shut down the whole way - Tyler was standing up on War of Will down the backside and yanking his head off because he could not get inside. They start that slo mo shot AFTER Max moves off the rail. You can obviously see Code of Honor coming up the rail. Tyler tried to go to the outside of Max because he could not go inside him.

[Nestor]

@Sunflower

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/triple-crown/west-plans-lawsuit-war-of-will-actually-caused-the-infraction-not-our-horse/

This has an interesting frame by frame slo mo shot.

So MS connections now saying War of Will caused the whole problem?

Hmmm.

It appears that’s what they’re trying to say in that video (whoever edited and captioned it). But you can clearly see that WoW and MS are on different lanes until MS switches leads and drifts out. Whatever caused him to drift out, we’ll likely never know. There was a puddle ahead of him on the rail; maybe it was a photographer; maybe it was the crowd noise; maybe WoW did tap him with his LF. I imagine there are regularly some knocks with hooves with horses running side by side (not in the racing world, just a fan).

I am in the camp of, saw the foul watching the race live, wasn’t surprised by the objection, think CH’s camp at least appears to be playing sour grapes by lodging it but if no one else complained it’s still correct, never expected MS to actually get DQed…

All around it’s a royal mess. But all in all the right call. MS dramatically veered out in front of other horses, caused multiple horses to get pulled up hard, and we’re lucky there wasn’t a pile-up on the track. That’s all that matters.

I feel terrible for MS’s connections. I feel (less) terrible for CH’s connections (because who wants that asterisk on their Derby win, especially their first?). But it is what it is.

[LaurieB]

@snaffle1987

I don’t believe the story on Country House’s cough either. Mott loves telling stories these last 2 weeks. Hes afraid. And his horse “won the derby” by luck. Now that the derby is over I am willing to bet we don’t see much of Country House ever again. He is a nice looking horse and he’s well bred, and I like him on the gallop around the track. But lets be honest; he isn’t the second coming of the all time greats. I hope he proves me wrong. We shall see. I wouldn’t be surprised if he never steps foot on a track again. take the money and run.

Bill Mott is one of the most respected trainers in racing. He has been for years and for lots of good reasons. He doesn’t “tell stories”. And your saying that he is afraid is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read. What could he possibly be afraid of? That some uninformed person might try to besmirch his reputation on an anonymous bulletin board? :rolleyes:

Please tell us some of the stories you’ve heard Mott tell in the last two weeks. Or two stories. Or even one.

You don’t have to be one of the “all time greats” to win the Kentucky Derby. Mine That Bird proved that. So did Giacomo. To suggest that Mott is running scared because Country House won the Derby by default is ludicrous.

[Sunflower]

@Nestor

It appears that’s what they’re trying to say in that video (whoever edited and captioned it). But you can clearly see that WoW and MS are on different lanes until MS switches leads and drifts out. Whatever caused him to drift out, we’ll likely never know. There was a puddle ahead of him on the rail; maybe it was a photographer; maybe it was the crowd noise; maybe WoW did tap him with his LF. I imagine there are regularly some knocks with hooves with horses running side by side (not in the racing world, just a fan).

I am in the camp of, saw the foul watching the race live, wasn’t surprised by the objection, think CH’s camp at least appears to be playing sour grapes by lodging it but if no one else complained it’s still correct, never expected MS to actually get DQed…

All around it’s a royal mess. But all in all the right call. MS dramatically veered out in front of other horses, caused multiple horses to get pulled up hard, and we’re lucky there wasn’t a pile-up on the track. That’s all that matters.

I feel terrible for MS’s connections. I feel (less) terrible for CH’s connections (because who wants that asterisk on their Derby win, especially their first?). But it is what it is.

I don’t actually have a strong reaction to any of what has happened. I am not in a position to second guess the stewards. They do their job. Their decision is as it is.

I also don’t get the whole CH jockey should not have complained line. Remember-- in a race-- this happened in a few seconds. Whatever perspective the rider has is different than all of the slo mo head on over head whatever camera shots. I read where the CH jockey was not sure which horse came over, the 1 or 7, so at the time he made his complaint, it was either the 1 or 7. If it was the 1, then, the outcome of the race was not going to change for CH. So I just do not buy this line of how wrong it was of him to complain.

And if the complaint was without basis, the stewards would not have made their decision.

[Texarkana]

@snaffle1987

4. Mark Casse and War of Wills owner are class.

snort

[Rackonteur]

War of Will’s camp finally speaks up:

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/horses/kentucky-derby/2019/05/08/kentucky-derby-2019-war-of-will-trainer-maximum-security-disqualification-right-call/1137835001/

[dressagetraks]

A neat and hopefully noncontroversial picture of Monomoy Girl and Omaha Beach. He looks like he’s checking her out.

https://www.facebook.com/149399288440985/photos/a.164033116977602/2229662300414663/?type=3&theater

[Rackonteur]

@dressagetraks

A neat and hopefully noncontroversial picture of Monomoy Girl and Omaha Beach. He looks like he’s checking her out.

https://www.facebook.com/14939928844…type=3&theater

And she him! Too bad they can’t be turned loose for a romp in the pasture (or a roll in the hay).

Very interesting to see Ruby Slippers 3x in their pedigrees.

[snaffle1987]

@Where'sMyWhite

The Haskell is at the very end of July which is late-summer. Around the northeast September is considered autumn. Hence my posts about the Haskell being likely. :encouragement:

[LaurieB]

@Rackonteur

War of Will’s camp finally speaks up:

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/horses/kentucky-derby/2019/05/08/kentucky-derby-2019-war-of-will-trainer-maximum-security-disqualification-right-call/1137835001/

I’m really glad that Mark Casse is defending his horse and his jockey. I think MS’s owner is just striking out in all directions now, hoping he can make something stick.

Here’s another article where Casse says much the same thing but also has frame-by-frame pictures of the infraction.

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/triple-crown/casse-if-anything-maximum-security-bothered-war-of-will-not-once-but-twice/

[LaurieB]

@snaffle1987

The Haskell is at the very end of July which is late-summer. Around the northeast September is considered autumn. Hence my posts about the Haskell being likely. :encouragement:

Oh for Pete’s sakes. The 2019 Haskell will be run on July 20th. Even in Iceland that isn’t considered late summer.

[Nestor]

@LaurieB

I’m really glad that Mark Casse is defending his horse and his jockey. I think MS’s owner is just striking out in all directions now, hoping he can make something stick.

Here’s another article where Casse says much the same thing but also has frame-by-frame pictures of the infraction.

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/triple-crown/casse-if-anything-maximum-security-bothered-war-of-will-not-once-but-twice/

That’s a great set of shots to show that MS really was all over the place. Each time I go back to watch it, that first (smaller) drift out throws me off and I think “oh that’s it?” and then I realize that’s not even the big interference. But yes he certainly does cut right in front of WoW on that drift out too.

[Rackonteur]

@LaurieB

Oh for Pete’s sakes. The 2019 Haskell will be run on July 20th. Even in Iceland that isn’t considered late summer.

Midsummer by my calendar.

[Rackonteur]

@Sunflower

I don’t actually have a strong reaction to any of what has happened. I am not in a position to second guess the stewards. They do their job. Their decision is as it is.

I also don’t get the whole CH jockey should not have complained line. Remember-- in a race-- this happened in a few seconds. Whatever perspective the rider has is different than all of the slo mo head on over head whatever camera shots. I read where the CH jockey was not sure which horse came over, the 1 or 7, so at the time he made his complaint, it was either the 1 or 7. If it was the 1, then, the outcome of the race was not going to change for CH. So I just do not buy this line of how wrong it was of him to complain.

And if the complaint was without basis, the stewards would not have made their decision.

I think it’s time that all involved – including the innocent horses – took your and Disraeli’s advice.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@snaffle1987

The Haskell is at the very end of July which is late-summer. Around the northeast September is considered autumn. Hence my posts about the Haskell being likely. :encouragement:

From your fairly recent post…

1. Omaha Beach needs time before coming back. Expect a late Summer campaign. Clark Handicap could very-well be in his sights

The Haskell is July 20 this year.

The Clark Handicap is November 29.

Not sure the calendar you’re using but July 20, as many have pointed out, isn’t late summer. Nor, IMO, is the Clark in late November :eek:

Maybe the Clark is on Omaha Beach’s dance card but there is much more racing in the summer classics to get through first. Not sure where you are getting your racing insights…

[Laurierace]

Not sure why we are arguing over a calendar but November 29th is as late in November as November gets save for one day!

[dressagetraks]

This whole situation reminds me of a cartoon I saw on Facebook. It said, “If you are ever lost alone in the wilderness and can’t find your way back to civilization, loudly express your opinion about something. Somebody will appear promptly to argue with you.”

[LaurieB]

@dressagetraks

This whole situation reminds me of a cartoon I saw on Facebook. It said, “If you are ever lost alone in the wilderness and can’t find your way back to civilization, loudly express your opinion about something. Somebody will appear promptly to argue with you.”

If you ever get lost on COTH, the same advice applies. :lol: