Your diplomacy as well as sentiments.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> You are lucky too to be in the horse world, for they are a very accepting and wonderful group of people as demonstrated on this BB. Stay with the horses, make friends and they’ll probably be with you for life.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This should be a mantra. 
It is sad BobO that you equate compassion and kindess, concern for one’s fellow (wo)man, as a capricious social trend, interpreted by you as a verbal straight jacket.
I mean, BobO, it would be just as easy for me to assert, on the mere basis that you are a straight 50-something man, that you are fat, bald, your old bones inhibit you from riding well, resentful, desparately mourning a lost youth; and probably in need of Viagra. Just as you assert, from Jair’s original post, that he is gratuitously flaunting his homosexuality, bragging and engaging in ‘uncivil’ behaviour.
I hope the above was acceptably non-PC for you BobO. I’m a just following your lead BobO! And thank god that being non PC also comes with it compelete disreggard for sppellinge.
Stop trying to sneak Alice out from under us! 
My sincere thanks to everyone who so eloquently defended me over the weekend whilst I had no idea that I had been disparaged in such a fashion.
Luckily my original reaction to BobO’s post has been tempered after reading such eloquent and well written responses. Everything that needed to be said has.
While I didn’t appreciate the personal attacks at all, BobO is entitled to his opinion. Perhaps if he disagrees with something in the future though, he will take a little more time to write down his reaction in a more practical manner rather then resorting to personal vendettas.
(glad to have you back Robby!)
Great post Jair (and yes, it is important to rhyme 
)
I guess what your post reminded me of, is that everyone has their cross to bear, so to speak. There is nobody I know who has gone through life without some crisis or critical event that defines who we are, and shapes us for the rest of our lives. For some it is grappling with what we think society wants us to be versus what we are destined to be, for others, it can be a devastating personal loss, or a failure to reach a goal that has defined our life up until that point.
For most of us, we manage to get past our youth before we are faced with these events, and have the comfortable knowledge of an adult that things will work out (“been to some place very similar, done almost exactly that, I’m still here”). Unfortunately, when you are young, and faced with these events, it is so easy to not see the way out. But I truly believe that a child who can come to terms with such internal or external conflicts will be a much better person, and will love themself which is the first step to being able to love anyone else.
But I will say, I do think the most important thing is to be able to talk to someone else about your fears, concerns and worries. When I was in the throes of teenager-ness, I had to deal with great deal of insecurity about me, and how my peers accepted me, in addition to a lot of family crisis (not unlike many families, mine took the “fun” right out of dysfunctional). To this day, I don’t know how I ended up in the school guidance counselor’s office, but it was the best thing I ever did. I’m not sure how I would have made it through those days, weeks and months without having that neutral person to talk to, sometimes about things that deeply troubled me, and sometimes about nothing important at all. At the time, I didn’t appreciate the benefits of communicating with a trained professional, but that surely helped.
Anyone who finds themselves feeling overwhelmed about their life should really talk to someone else, preferably a trained counselor or other professional. Don’t worry about having to “lay it all on the line” right away. Just pick up the phone, make an appointment, stop by the office and talk - that is what they are there for…
about homosexuality, is the choice to be honest about it.
No one would choose to be gay, ClipClop. Why would it be advantageous to put yourself in a position to be insulted and threatened continuously? Why would teenagers contemplate suicide over it? Choosing to be gay, in a homophobic, heterosexual-ruled world, has zero value if you look at this from a survival perspective.
Your heart is in the right place, though. You’re kind and considerate and that says much!
Robby
Wonderful message, Jair!
For twenty years (the time I spent showing Poodles) nearly all my really good friends were gay. The dog show world like the horse show world is a pretty accepting place, and these guys were the outest, most outrageous, funniest, bitchiest bunch you’d ever want to meet. To my constant surprise, however, there were people who were unable to see how special, and how absolutely normal, these guys were. One of the reasons I stopped showing dogs was because AIDS came through the dog world like a whirlwind. Over a relatively short span of time, I lost a number of wonderful friends, and the whole thing just wasn’t as much fun anymore.
Jair, I’d be really happy, and really proud, to count you as a new friend.
Hey, Robby
[blushing at presidential nomination - thanks, but I’m just not electable!]
I’m with you on that. I remember when rap was a politically provocative, very progressive and interesting art form. Now it seems to have degenerated into a sexually childish and anti-intellectual booty call. Very disappointing. I have politically active African American friends who really despair about this artistic institutionalization of misogyny and homophobia.
Standing ovation to you, Jair! 
I’m sure that you have helped a lot of people reading this understand this topic better. You are a really strong person, Jair! --and Alice deserves you or do I mean you deserve Alice
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ClipClop:
I think society has tried to push homosexuality these last few years. I really do think it is our choice though. I think most people on this board know this now, but I’m a strong Christian. No, Im not going to flame anyone here, because wouldn’t that just be hipocrosy? However, everyday, we all have choices to make, we all have the choice to rob that bank, but do we? No, because most people know that would be morally and lawfully wrong. No, Im not trying to convert anyone, and Jair I love you for who you are, and I would never ever say that you are a bad person for your descions. They are yours alone to make, and Hayden, I hope you make the correct one for you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
ClipClop,
I think your assertion is incorrect, at least for me personally. Absolutely, we all have choices to make. Who you love is not one of them- we are born with that predisposition. Do you choose to engage in personal relationships wit hthe opposite sex? Yes-- but that choice is a direct result of deeper, innate desire to do so. Why would this be any different for a person who is attracted to individuals of the same sex?
Yes, we can choose to ignore what our hearts and minds tell us is right, out of fear of societal opinion or out of some ingrained respect for an omnicient god who would disapprove. As others have said, one can choose to be his or herself, or not. The latter is a hollow, lonely life indeed.
LML
MidWest/Chicago Clique
Cripple Clique
You had a TEACHER who said that ?!! Was the administration ever told about this? That’s totally unacceptable.
You have a great brother! Please give him a hug especially from me, too!!
Spunky
Oh no Heidi, you will have to get in line with the rest of us for Alice… Okay, so maybe you are closer in distance…
Jair, good people have good lives. You are GOOD people, and hopefully one of these days we can meet you. Thanks for being on this BB.
I don’t post here very often, but was happy to be told about this thread. You are very courageous, Jair.
All of you juniors who are so supportive, please consider joining your high school’s Gay-Straight Alliance. It’s NOT just for gay people. It is just what it says, an alliance between people of any sexual preference. There are a lot of young gay men and women who could use your support in person.
It takes courage to join or even start a GSA, but it will be very rewarding in terms of personal growth for you and for those who need your support in your own real communities, rather than just this virtual community. Help change the world–it just takes a small group of committed people to make our world a better place.
Boogey on dudes
BobO- Where in ANY of Jair’s post on this thread was he blatanly sexual? I have yet to find them, and I have read every single one. Okay we’re going to do a role reversal here. Did you complain once during the ENTIRE thong thread? No that to me was more scandalous than this thread lending support to a very troubled young man. Why was the thong thread okay and this one wasn’t? Because it discussed homosexuality? Double standard much?
Jair I commend you for posting this, it took guts and compassion. The glb community is very lucky to have you. I also know what you mean about not all gay guys are “limp wristed flower arrangers”, although I’ve met more than a few of those. My BEST friend and surrogate father is openly gay. When I first moved my horse to his barn before I knew him I really didn’t know one way or the other. I was confused because I knew that he had three kids, but that he also owned a gay bar. Being naive, It didn’t occur to me that gay men could have kids before coming out. It did occur to me that a straight man could own a gay bar though. Another reason was that he is the most masculine man I have ever met in my entire life.
I’m sad to say that I will never get to meet his significant other in this life as he was killed three years before I met Jim.
Now, I work in the aforementioned bar and I LOVE it, I wouldn’t trade the experience and the people I’ve met in there for the world.
Virtual Bear Hug
You always sound so interesting and a good, positive force for the underdog! But I think your last line should read “I’m here, and proud of it!” I think the term "queer’ is mean and belittling to you.(I wish I knew how to insert a smiley face here for you!) I think you’re super!
We are not PC. We are caring people, who know that other caring people should be accepted for their goodness and caring and compassion for others. We really don’t see that who you love is anywhere near as important as THAT you love someone.
It wouldn’t really hurt, BobO, to feel some compassion for others, to really care about them as people. You do have freedom to speak - and to disagree with our thoughts … but not to be rude or crude. There are people here who feel strongly about a variety of things, who disagree with each other, but have found a way to have a civil dialog. All we ask is that you do the same.
April
Great post Jair!! Well written and very worthwhile.
I’ve just printed it out for my roomate who is in need of just this speech right now!
See…you’ve already made a difference! smile
Being homosexual is a choice though, IMHO. Please don’t flame me for this, but I know there are others on this board who feel the same way and just have not spoken up. I don’t think people realize that is and can be a choice that you can make. I would never condemn someone for being “gay” but however, do I feel it’s right? I don’t know.
[This message was edited by ClipClop on Feb. 19, 2001 at 01:01 PM.]
Great post, Jair!
You too, DMK, great insight and advice.
KatyO, thank goodness your girlfriend has you there for her. Parents who put their child’s sexuality above their child herself or himself don’t deserve the name “parents.”
Thank God our horses, dogs, cats, and other 4-legged loved ones couldn’t give a rat’s ass (sorry Erin!) about what sex their people are sexually attracted to. Some of the humans in this world should take a good lesson from them.
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