The Use of Double Bridles in Saddle-Seat Riding

[shakeytails]

[QUOTE=Tiffani B;7752869]
I disagree that other disciplines are cheaper. The H/J barns I rode at charged 3X the price for a lesson than the ASB barns did, and BOARD (not board plus training, just board) was about $500 MORE than the local ASB trainers charged for full board and training. They never did any “one day” shows - even the smaller, entry level shows were multiple day affairs. I was told to expect to pay upwards of $3000 for one of those shows, to SHARE a horse, and go in two classes. I can send my Saddlebred to a week long show with a trainer and not pay even half that.

Maybe it is the region, but everyone I’ve talked to in the Dressage and H/J worlds describes prices that are so far beyond anything I’ve ever heard about in the ASB world.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree. The prices I hear people paying in the h/j and dressage world make me go :eek::eek:! I pay less for training/board that a lot of people pay for board alone. Yeah, ss is a bit pricey, but our board and training is pretty much all inclusive. We don’t pay for “training rides” or coaching at shows. But we also don’t ride our show horses unless the trainer is there- no “on your own” riding or training. It’s almost like you’re a guest riding your own horse. The trainer makes the typical feeding/vet/farrier decisions. It really is “hand’s off” horse ownership. You have to be OK with that if you want a ss show horse. Shoeing is expensive, especially the first set of handmade show shows, but even at $160 for a reset with pads it’s cheaper and less frequent than what the average h/j owner reports paying.

At the elite $$$$$ barns, you’re expected to pay for ads on a regular basis and have certain clothing (for both horse and rider), but I’m sure this is probably the same for almost any discipline.

Tack for a ss horse- a new saddle is $3500, but for your average amateur it’ll last forever, and they don’t require fitting. With rare exceptions- one size fits all. A new show bridle will run $300, and since it’s not a daily use thing, will also last for many many years. A custom habit can easily cost $3500, but very nice consignment clothing (custom for someone else) can be had for 1/3 or less of the cost. Styles don’t change much and a different vest/shirt/tie combo can change the look pretty inexpensively. I’ve been wearing the same basic suit for years, and my derby and boots are at least 10 years old. Compare that to a custom blingy western pleasure shirt at $2000 that won’t be in style for more than a year or two, or a $500 helmet that supposed to be replaced every couple of years.

My trainer doesn’t charge day fees, just a split of expenses, but my most expensive show was maybe $800. I’m sure the World Championship at Louisville would run me at least a couple grand, but until I have a horse I think has a shot at top five ribbons, I don’t plan on showing there even if it is almost right in my backyard.

As far as showing on my own- it’s cheap. I went to a 4 day show last year about 5 hours from home with my at-home horse. I slept in the trailer because I’m cheap like that, but including fuel and everything the cost was around $300, about what I’d have payed for a hotel if I had just showed my in-training horse.

[Tiffani_B]

When I show with a trainer, my bill is around $1000 for a 4 day show. If I show on my own, it’s around $350 if I get a tack stall (prices don’t include hauling or hotel). My trainer charges around $3500 for the WCHS including hauling (we’re about 7 hours away). That’s a 7 day show and they are usually there 10+ days. It doesn’t really get any higher level than the WCHS in the ASB world, and that price is around what I was quoted to show a jumper at a local show not even an hour away.

Barns who take academy horses charge $200-500 all inclusive, depending on how far the show is and how many people are sharing the horse.

If you go with a trainer, everything is done for you like shakeytails said. You don’t groom your own horse, clean your own tack, supply your own hoof black, nothing. The trainer and a groom accompanies you to the warm up and show ring - all included. The trainer works your horse every day its at the show and warms it up for you before your class.

[Alagirl]

you guys are taking thread drift to a whole new level here! :lol:

I can only imagine what the OP is thinking about THAT! :eek:

[Tiffani_B]

I think her head probably exploded.

This is how conversations naturally work, even in person. You never talk to someone about just one thing and then walk away (unless maybe you’re at work and you hate your coworkers LOL). A conversation about what to make for dinner turns into a discussion of the grocery list and then a fight about money. That’s life!

[ASB_Stars]

[QUOTE=Tiffani B;7753417]
When I show with a trainer, my bill is around $1000 for a 4 day show. If I show on my own, it’s around $350 if I get a tack stall (prices don’t include hauling or hotel). My trainer charges around $3500 for the WCHS including hauling (we’re about 7 hours away). That’s a 7 day show and they are usually there 10+ days. It doesn’t really get any higher level than the WCHS in the ASB world, and that price is around what I was quoted to show a jumper at a local show not even an hour away.

Barns who take academy horses charge $200-500 all inclusive, depending on how far the show is and how many people are sharing the horse.

If you go with a trainer, everything is done for you like shakeytails said. You don’t groom your own horse, clean your own tack, supply your own hoof black, nothing. The trainer and a groom accompanies you to the warm up and show ring - all included. The trainer works your horse every day its at the show and warms it up for you before your class.[/QUOTE]

With the WCHS, you aren’t allowing for what it costs for the owner to be there, golf cart, entires, and all. As far as Academy goes, you aren’t paying board for a horse the rest of the time, so enough said there. Hunter Jumper doesn’t have an equivalent for Academy- you can use their lesson horses at shows, but it isn’t quite the same.

[Tiffani_B]

[QUOTE=ASB Stars;7753855]
With the WCHS, you aren’t allowing for what it costs for the owner to be there, golf cart, entires, and all. As far as Academy goes, you aren’t paying board for a horse the rest of the time, so enough said there. Hunter Jumper doesn’t have an equivalent for Academy- you can use their lesson horses at shows, but it isn’t quite the same.[/QUOTE]

Golf cart? Those are for sissies. LOL

Like I said for both examples, I wasn’t including hotel and “owner” expenses, as those vary for everyone depending on where they choose to stay. I actually bring a travel trailer to shows to save on the hotel and food bills.

Regardless… every time I’ve talked to someone in the Dressage or H/J world about their show expenses, they are far and away much higher than anything in the Saddlebred world, at any “level.” Maybe in PA you have more variety of barns and shows, but I’m basing my comments on IL/WI and the surrounding states (plus what I have read online). I’m sure it varies by region, and of course each individual barn is going to charge differently. There are ASB trainers around here that are a lot cheaper, and some that are on the very high end rivaling the KY barns. But even THOSE are fairly inexpensive compared to the “very high end” dressage and H/J trainers.

[ReSomething]

Academy is something the ASHA needs to advertise more. It’s a lot of fun, moderately priced and a very easy way to get your feet wet in the showing world without breaking the bank.

(lol, that WAS total thread drift there - but that is how a conversation morphs and drifts and can get pretty interesting and informative!)

[NBChoice]

Totally agree, ReSomething! Academy is how I got my foot in the show ring. Before that I had no idea of how to show and I also didn’t want to. Academy was a total blast for me and it really gave me a good idea of what all goes into a show. A couple years of academy and then I was taking my own horse to shows on my own. It was a good learning experience and great confidence booster for me.

[ASB_Stars]

The highest end dressage barns in this area, with training, are on par with the higher end ASB show barns in KY. And, you do not see travel trailers at L’ville. Just sayin’. Not with the competitors, in any event. There are exceptions to every rule, of course. Like people who don’t get a golf cart. Seriously? And I LOVE to walk.

I am not going to argue the points further, because we are heading far outside the scope of the OPs topic, and it doesn’t make any further sense. But, for many reasons, ASBs in SS become far more expensive, less user friendly, and ridiculously exclusive as you go up the rungs of the show world.

[Tiffani_B]

No, the travel trailers are at campgrounds around the fairgrounds. I know of several exhibitors from this area that bring theirs down. And the barn rents the golf cart, not the individual people, so it’s included in their show fees.

But back on the topic of full bridles… and relating to the Academy posts… how do you guys feel about Academy riders showing in a full bridle? I’ve heard people say that the horses should not be in full bridles at that level, and also that if the rider is ready to show in a full bridle, they’re ready for suit classes. I don’t really have an opinion one way or the other since I don’t show Academy, but it’s definitely a hotly debated topic!

[ReSomething]

[QUOTE=Tiffani B;7754089]
. . .

But back on the topic of full bridles… and relating to the Academy posts… how do you guys feel about Academy riders showing in a full bridle? I’ve heard people say that the horses should not be in full bridles at that level, and also that if the rider is ready to show in a full bridle, they’re ready for suit classes. I don’t really have an opinion one way or the other since I don’t show Academy, but it’s definitely a hotly debated topic![/QUOTE]

Well, several of my trainer’s Academy horses are what you’d call a schoolmaster in the dressage world. Seasoned older horses like my old guy that had successful careers in the open show ring and maybe they’ve slowed down, haven’t got the action any more - but there isn’t any reason whatsoever for him not to be in a double IF his rider has the educated hands for it.

Our barn always used the training martingale so we had the four reins, and I never did know what or where was the point when we students would go to a double.

Generally the same horse would do Academy in the morning with the training martingale and then switch to a double in the afternoon under a different rider - our rules were once you wore a suit you were barred from further Academy classes (although they’d have Open classes at Tournament to keep folks tuned up and participating), so that’s kind of the same as if you are ready for a double you are ready for suit classes.

But some of the Academy classes are VERY competitive, absolutely able to manage four reins with finesse, and some of the riders in suit classes were barely able to keep their legs on both sides of the horse - so maybe it boils down to being someone that keeps a horse in full training gets the full bridle and the suit and shows Open/suit classes.

That’s a bit of a jaded attitude peeking out there I’m afraid - you know, more money gets more attention etc.

[red_mares]

I think that Academy riders should be encouraged to show in full bridles. Many show there because it’s cheaper. Most school horses are fine, or work better, in a full bridle. Why dissuade someone from using a full or penalize them for learning or improving as a rider?

I’m also a tiny bit bitter about the whole academy set up. My first horse was a former full time school horse, however, no one in the SE would ride her. Apparently kids are braver in Chicago.:lol: Anyway, I never showed as kid because I had no horse. When I did get a horse, I couldn’t do the cheap/green rider academy classes because … I had a horse. So, I didn’t show at all. (With my schedule I would have lucky to do a show or two, but wasn’t inclined to drop the $$ for a saddlesuit I’d wear once & no one in the barn was my size)

[ReSomething]

Red mares, things may have changed or it could be regional, but Academy horses can be privately owned and show Open, they just have to be used in lessons and there doesn’t seem to be some minimum amount of lessons, so we’ve had a couple of fancy long tailed horses from one smaller barn that has a more advanced clientele. The one rule we have is that once you’ve graduated to a suit you are not allowed to compete Academy.

Of course, they don’t seem to take into account riding and showing in different disciplines, for an example some of the long tailed riders are showing extensively in certain breed shows. It’s a small world, they don’t win as much as they might.

[red_mares]

Not when I was in NC. Prize lists were pretty specific about lesson horses only, and I don’t remember any ‘open’ academy classes. Seemed to be just one more instance of the discipline shooting itself in the foot.

This was several years ago, they may have gotten smarter about things (not holding my breath though)

[ReSomething]

It could be current interpretation, here’s something from the ASHA website

An Academy class is any class offered at a local tournament in which two or more stables are participating, or any class at an open show that is designated “academy.” Participants compete on horses designated as school horses, or horses that are regularly used in riding lesson program instruction. Acceptable riding attire is jodhpurs or dark pants, boots and dress shirt or a sweatshirt bearing the stable’s logo. Riding suits are unacceptable, and hard hats are optional.

Bolding mine.

[AppendixQHLover]

My saddle seat morgan I barely used the curb rein. I had contact but rode him off the snaffle. I did ride in a pelham with a running martingale at home schooling and trails. I only rode in the full bridle before a show, clinic, lesson or a few days before show.