DennaJ is asking for suggestions. How about writing a letter of complaint with the judge’s name to the committe that handles AHSA Licensed Officials and to each IHSA Region president?
[This message has been edited by Darden (edited 04-04-2000).]
The addresses for the IHSA Region and Zone contacts are listed here: http://www.ihsa.com/address.htm
This weekend at one of our collegiate horse shows, one of my students had to ride off against another of my students for the reserve highscore rider award. She did a beautiful job (she is a novice rider) and came really close to beating my open rider who is one of the best in the region. She asked me what she did wrong and I told her that she looked really great and with a little more mileage she would do even better.
For those of you who dont know, at college shows the riders are allowed to ask the judge questions about their ride after the show. So my happy little novice rider goes meandering over to the judge to ask her opinion on what to work on. The judges reply was that she had nice equitation but she would never win seriously unless she lost 5 pounds.
This was a FEMALE, large R judge. This is college riding, and not the maclay finals. The kid was crushed beyond belief. This is NOT a fat rider, as a matter of fact I would not even call her overweight. She is a big boned girl, almost 6 feet tall, who is of average to below average weight.
As a coach and teacher, I was seriously affronted. It may be that the judge meant well, but since she is a woman (we are ALL obsessive about our weight), you would think that she would have been a little more sensitive. I am not saying that it is any less offensive coming from a man, but men deal with completly different body type issues than women do. I personally know of 3 boy riders in our area in the last 10 years who won lots of medal classes and they were what I would classify as overweight, and yet, I dont think I ever heard anyone make a comment about how they needed to lose a few pounds.
If anyone else has visited the A shows in the past few years, they have seen several skeletal riders. I made a comment to a very well known trainer about one girl and he said, Oh, well, we dont talk about the problem. I was shocked. Did everyone feel that if they ignored the problem then it would just go away. Or was it guilt at having started the problem in the first place.
When is the last time that you ever heard a person who had to diet themselves to the bone to stay thin, telling someone that they needed to lose weight. Hooray for you if you are naturally thin, but dont destroy someones self esteem, because you were lucky enough to have “thin genes”.
I know that we have created equitation, with the tall thin rider in mind, but are we willing to sacrifice, what could be a childs life to an equitation championship. What is wrong with people that they are unable to accept people as they are.
All our riders are very physically fit, and if I get a rider that is a bit out of shape, or large, we encourage them to join us in 4 weekly workout sessions to get in shape. Wouldnt it have been more appropriate for the judge to have said that she felt the other rider was more experienced and perhaps a tad more physically fit, and encouraged the rider to run or work out to become more fit. Calling someone fat, never solved any problems with riding. I feel it only creates more.
Sorry this is so long. Please reply with your experiences and opinions.
I have been lurking in this thread for quite some timeand have tried to figure out how to say what I want with out going on for evere or offending any one.
First on the reining horses add another 50 lbs to the rider for the saddle and pads. THese horses all seem to be happy and able to get their jobs done with out skinny minnies riding them.
Second as a trainer of adolesent youths I would never mention any thing about their weight because it is devastating to have it happen(been there). I have a lot of timid girls that ride with me that are over weight and seem to place well in the shows we go to. I tend to stress horsemanship and riding skills and let these girls deal with how they can get their body to do what they need to ride correctly.
I also have a couple of kids that are so skinny (not malnourshied, but very skinny body type) that there is not enough of the rider to keep their thy on the horse with out me seeing day light under their leg.
I think it is horrible for a judge to make that comment that started this thread, I think he could have come up with a better commet.
AS far as my riding I was never the skinny one as Jr. Lost weight as an adult to tyhe skinny ranks. At that time I won more I hope it was because my skill as arider improved not because I was skinny. Now I am battling the fitness issue not the weight issue, I feel that when I get myself fit myriding will improve and my weight will drop to where I am comfortable. I don’t use scales I go by how my clothes fit.
THanx for listening to my soap box.
It would seem writing a letter to the judge wouldn’t make any difference. Writing a letter about the comments to the AHSA should be done immediately. I would also like to see a national movement on this issue so the matter can be brought formally to the AHSA - if someone wants to put together a petition…well let’s get going. They could be left at tack shops all over the country and I have no doubt we would have thousands and thousands of signatures.
As I’ve stated before on another thread on this subject - MOSTWOMEN are not built like adolescent BOYS! Those who believe they should be …need to see a shrink. We have enough skeleton female riders out there now - so grossly underweight you wonder how their heart muscle is functioning - and those skinny skinny male trainers making nasty comments about weight haven’t helped either.
I think it’s interesting that the Chronicle has an editorial on attracting people to our sport…well HEY GUYS WAKE UP…a sport that blatantly ridicules a rider, not for their talent or their ability but simply for their weight isn’t exactly the kind of sport that will attract the masses who ARE NOT SKINNY BOY BODIES!!!
Ok finaly I can have some time to sit and write on this issue. Im 5’3 just to let all of you know. I battled my weight for many years ( most of my life)no I wasn’t overweight I was underweight. I want to try to hit both Being heavy and too skiny. When I was a chiled I had alot of babyfat. By 4th grade I was the tallest person. My body was developeing too quick for me to keep up. I was 5ft and only 74lbs at that point in my life. Most of me was muscle but the skelaton I saw in the miror horified me. but to many I looked Ideal. Nerves were a major factor for me. If I was at a show I hardly ate. I went on this 8 week show campaighn one summer and by the 7th week I had to stop. My body was too weak to go any farther. As I got home from the show I was at 71 lbs mind you at thid point I was 5’3. About a day later I couldn’t get out of bed cause I was too weak and the decision was made to have me admited to a hospital. From not eating I was in worse condition than apeared. My vitamin levals were way down, my antiboties were not in existance, ect. The worst part was that this affected my liver and kidnies. At this point I had a failing kidnie and my second kidnie was headed that way. I spent 2 weeks in the hospital because of this. I don’t talk much on this subject because I was ashamed of myself for being so ignorent. As I left I was barely hitting the 100 mark but my system was back to normal. Time had passed and I began to gain weight. What I didn’t realize was it was a affect of my system being shut down so my body was relearning how to cope with solid foods. I saw this big bloated girl in the miror and was ashamed. The first day i returned to school that year someone made the coment that I looked fat. see from all of the fluids I was bloated. But I didn’t know that. That afternoon I was so upset that for the first time I vomted on perpose. This was the start of balimia for me. this continued for about 5 weeks untill one night I was sitting on the couch and went to reach for a glass on the table. I fell over and went unconchense. I was rushed to the hospital and sustained in critical condition. My kidnes were both failing. Due to my ignorence I sacraficed my life. I was in need of a transplant so the testing started to find a doner with in my family. My middle sister was a match for me and the surgery began. I became healthy again and gained weight till the bigining of january in 99(7years later)I Had a bad case of depresion. I got extreamly sick and my body couldn’t handle the flue I had. I was admithed into the hospital on my 19th b.day but this time it wasn’t my kidnied it was my liver. I remained under monotoring for 14 days. I found myself at the end of this weighing a meer 93lbs mind you before all of this I was at a healthy 120 and was so energetic and hapy. I was healthy in my eyes. Its been a little over a year and Im still bataling the weight. I eat healthy exercise when my energy is their and keep on top of myself. My goal is to get back to that 120 mark. Ok for me that might soung heavy but I felt good there and nomater how hard someone can convince me im not going to aim any lower. Im hapy with my goal and I dispise people who are as ignorent as I was for thinking they had to be at an ideal weight. When you starve yourself it affects your matabalism. If at a young age you diet and starve yourself later on in life your matabalism will slow down and the weight will go on. For the young people here listen to me. A friend of mine gave me this advice and for people like me I pass it on to you. " To be an ideal person is so ordinary. no one person is alike. Look at yourself in the miror and be happy. Bueaty is not exterior but interior. To be truly happy with yourself the first step is to acept yourself as it is and not by what other people say. Stop listaning to the voices cause in the long run you will be right. Its your body and not someone elses."
At the end of all of this Im still reminded of the horor I put myself threw. Nomater how hard I try to forget I can’t cause there is a little bottle with pills sitting next to my bed and everymorning I wake up and I take them. These are called rejection meds. For the rest of mylife I will be on them and if I forget a day I could end up whare I don’t want to. There are so many consaquences to what we do yet we forget to look at the whole picture. If we were to be Ideal then god would have made us that way. I hope one of these days we get to the point where we are not judged by our weight but by our preformence. now on the over weight topic I personaly find it rude to call someone that. Havent some people heard that obecity is not from eating too much but its ginetic. Ok some people eat but they need to eat not to gorge themselves but to sustain enough energy to be active. i one time met this woman who looked to be what society calls fat bu if you felt any part on her body it was mucle toned and not true fat. I have more respect for people who society calls fat that go out and remain active. That is true heart. They are out there doing what they love despite their size and haveing fun at it. People sit their and say “man I feel sory for thathorse” but the fact is alot of horses are built to handle weight. Remember what they did before they became a sport. The amount of weight was more than 300 lbs that they were dealing with. For these people to be happy with the way they apear is wonderfull. I wish more people had their self confadence. Remember we are all diffrent and should be proud of how we apear. For thoes of you that are on the skiny thing Send me an email and some of the pictures I can send you of me will change your mind on wanting to be skiny. I have a grate pic of me sitting their with tubes all over me that would send you into a reality check. Take it easy and Im sure some people will disagree with me but hay Im happy with myself.
dennaj – It is terrible that your rider had to have such an experience. Sadly, women can sometimes be even more harsh about weight than the men.
Hallie – brava for you. If only we had more like you. I sincerely hope you do get your “R” license; you and others like you are much needed at that level.
Goodness knows, this is not the only sport (or profession) that focuses on a girl’s/woman’s weight and appearance. The gymnasts, ice skaters, divers, and dancers, to name a few, have horrendous problems with anorexia and bulimia because weight is such an issue with their sports. That focus on weight has led to tragedy in too many instances. At least in riding there are many areas where those who do not fit someone’s idea of “the ideal” body type can compete and be successful, but in those areas like Eq where that destructive attitude prevails, we must fight against it.
Just FYI in case some of you didn’t see it and are interested, somewhere buried in the threads from a few weeks ago is one titled “Riding and Body Image” that also dealt with this topic.
Peptalk Here me out. I don’t know how heavy you are but to atempt to loose weight in the method you are useing is not good. Im not going to sit here and bash you actualy i want to open you eyes to see what is hapening. You say you skip meals. Well here are some things you are doing… First of all think of your liver and kidnies… You liver and kidnies work as a team when you go for time with out eating your system is in active the longer you go the harder it is for your system to properly function. I know this hapens alot but think about when you eat how after words your system feels upset and you feel slightly nautious. Whats hapening you are causeing a shock to your system. at the same time you are makeing it harder for your metabolites to work. So your digestive system is working harder and at the same time you are causing small damage. this is not a jokeing mater. you feel that you need to loose weight to fit in the image rhelm but in actuality you are overlooking a biger image. You might worie about failure if you don’t loose the weight. This in itself is not brought on by the weight loss this is actualy a self conchence thing. You have been drilled over time that you are heavy and in order to win you must loose this weight. Actualy you will loose not because of the weight but because your prioraties are in the wrong place. Look at yourself in the miror (best if done when newd) and think about how unyou you will be. You won’t be the person everyone loves you will be a person that has become tourtured by this weight thing. Do you realize how I envie you. And yes I do envie you cause you have something I battle for everyday. I try to gain and gain but its hard. Envying people like me is not healthy. trying to loose this type of weight takes years to do. No mericle drug out there can help you in any healty maner no mater how good they say it is. If you realy want to start to loose weight you must first look at your diet. I despise calorie counting just to let you know. But eating healthy and exerciseing with in limits will in time help you become that person that you feel to be. Im not saying don’t loose weight what Im saying is think about your body first before damage is done. Skiping meals is not good. eat but within reason. The best thing medicine has come up with is what is called a newtritionist. If you want to feel beter about yourself yet want to cause as little damage go to one and have him or her help you learn ways to eat a better life. I hope you realize something here and maby this note will help you look at diffrent goals.
Not to attempt to interpret Coreene’s words for her, but I felt that she was making a valid point. I think that most men, gay or straight, can’t even begin to understand what young women go through psychologically in their attempts to deal with weight, height, looks, bust size, etc. Therefore, men may think nothing of making offhand comments about women who “need to lose weight,” having no idea how damaging those comments can be.
I’ll cast my vote for fitness, which makes sense for riding, other athletic endeavors and hopefully makes us live longer!
BTW, weight is not a personal problem (although I’m only 5’1" so don’t fit the riders body mold), but I had a college roommate who was bulimic. Her roommates, there were three of us, were the ones who made her get help and made her tell her boyfriend (happy ending, they’re married with kids today). It was a very difficult and emotional year for all of us. Anyone else who has dealt with this in a friend or family member understands how totally devastating eating disorders can be.
I’ll support judges who rate riding ability above weight and height any day!!!
Im glad this was reposted/ Ok where does it say? it doesn’t? but so many kids and adults have been drilled into thinking they must be thin. So where did this realy start. I rememberd hearing someone once saying that when they were at a clinic they were told that they were heavy. Is this person realy the start or was this just a catalist of something else. Do we realy need to be critacized for this? It began with someones standards and then we folowed. But nobody has woken up and sed this needs to stop now till now.
this weight issue is not new. when i was riding for my college team 25 years ago, my trainer told me that i would never be an equitation rider because i was too hefty. at that time i was 5’6" and weighed 135 pounds. i wish i was that now. also just 5 years ago at a george morris clinic, there was a young lady riding who was a liitle overweight - she did all that was asked of her by george - and did it well. after 2 days of riding with him - his final critique of her was - "if i see you next year - i hope you’ll look like MISS TWIGGY NOT MISS PIGGY. how awful can you get. i am on overweight adult rider - i go out there and do the best i can. i know that i’m an effective rider but because of my weight may not be a pretty rider. i guess i’ll just have to deal with my faults.
Let’s face it -our society as a whole “worships” and rewards beauty , and one aspect of being considered beautiful is being thin.
There are all kinds of studies that have been done that indicate being attractive influences the way people treat you and their perception of you. The equestrian world is not alone in its favorable regard for a certain body type.
So, what do we do about it? Well, for one thing, if my daughter’s trainer EVER encouraged her to lose weight in order to place better in an eq class she would lose us as clients. If a judge ever told her that he/she placed her lower (or even higher) because of her weight, I would do everything in my power to see that that judge would be censored. I would want to send the message to them, but more importantly my daughter, that such behavior is unacceptable.
My daughter, who is 14, is lucky to have long legs and a slender build. But even so, she is conscious of her weight -primarily because of her friends. Most of the time she won’t eat lunch - because her friends don’t - and when she does, it’s not healthy stuff but junk food. We have had girls spend the night that wouldn’t eat certain foods because they weren’t the " fat-free variety". One girl told me her mom wouldn’t have any food in the house unless it was fat-free.
I’ve repeatedly had talks with my daughter about healthy eating and watch carefully for any signs of eating disorders. I try to base my praise on things besides appearance - "you did a great job riding that course " or “you worked hard on that exercise”.
Of course, I am just her mom, and as such what I say isn’t nearly as important as what others say. Which is why it is so important for parents to speak up to trainers and judges and anyone else who influences the behavior of our kids.
Yes, there are people out there who are overweight, and some of them ride. There are also riders who are thin but not physically fit (I would fit into that category these days, although I’m working on it). Neither situation is ideal, but the thread started out talking about judging riders and basing results on who was thinner. That is just plain wrong.
There is so much pressure already on women, teenagers and young girls to be thin from other parts of society, it would be great if we could remove some of that pressure from the horse/horse show world instead of making it yet another part of the problem. It seems to me that those of us who are older must try however we can to help younger women understand that the many different shapes and sizes people come in are normal and acceptable! We should teach them how to ride well, how to care for their horses, how to be true horsewomen, how to be good sports, how to value exercise and fitness, etc. That is what matters.
I can totally relate to what Kelsy is saying. Growing up around ALL thin and tall people when you are short(4’11) and not fat, but definatly NOT skinny(120) and it does get to you. For this whole past year I have had on/off eating disorders and I am not proud of it. But the preassure of winning and constantly being around thin people, I dont know, it just got to me. I wanted to be more like them. I mean I won my fair share, but I just still wasnt satisfied. Also, lie Kelsy, every pound lost was a victory for me, it just felt soooo good! I am getting alot better, but I still think about it very often. I hope I havent said too much! Now I feel kinda stupid for sharing all this with people I dont even know, but I hope it can help someone. Trust me people, it is SOOOOO NOT worth it!!! Thanks-
FLASH
I’m probably what most people would classify as a “child” still. I just jumped up to the Adult Am. classes this season, been showing junior hunters and equitation on the local level for a good 4 or 5 years now. Even on the local circuit there are stereotypes. I’m 5’6 or so, and I weigh about 145. I’m perfectly within a “normal” size, and I’m healthy and strong enough to ride well. But even though I know I’m not overweight and that most of it’s muscle, there’s still that voice that tells me to skip meals or only pick at my food so that I can lose a few pounds. This has been going on for a few years now, and I managed to starve myself enough one summer to lose 20 pounds when I didn’t need to, and a lot of it was because I thought I would pin better if I looked like one of my friends, who was blessed with the “look” and natural talent.
Frankly, there is just as much of a problem occuring with eating disorders in the hunter/equitation world as there are in sports like figure skating and gymnastics. I skated for years, and still stay involved as a spectator, and the problems there are evident as well in girls that I know from riding.
Woodbern, I think we should attack the issue, not each other. If your comment was not intended in that manner, then I apologize. I do commend Teddy for speaking her mind when she knew she’d probably get flak for it. As stated, I enjoy reading everyone’s views . . . on the issue.
Okay, so what are the names and postal addresses/email addresses for the appropriate committee members? Is there someone who can form a “guide” letter for us to use? Shall we bombard them with copies of this and the other thread mentioned?
I will do my part.
Side note to JRG: I recently was home sick on the day ESPN2 aired a USET Reining Qualifying competition on the “America’s Horse” program. The one thing I noticed was that most of these highly qualified and highly respected riders were either pushing 200 lbs or pushing 6’ and above - nary a skinny-minnie in the bunch. They were riding quarter horses that were for the most part under 16 hands and under 1000 lbs. Under the scenario of “A horse should only carry a portion of its own body weight”, how does this compare to teenage girls ave under 5’7" and ave under 140 lbs riding 16+ hand, 1000+ lb Tb’s and Warmbloods? 
If you could look up this website, I would really be interested in viewing it.
I’ve read most of the replies, and I think that in most cases when a judge cites a weight issue it is uncalled for. But there are time when riders DO need to loose weight for the well being of themselves and their horses. An example: My trainer recently told a student that she either needed to loose weight or find a new trainer. This girl was very very very overweight, and her horse was in alot of pain. THe rider wanted to move up to bigger jumps, but my trainer would not let her until she lost some weight b/c it was harming the horse. He was getting chronic back problems and was very uncomfortable. needless to say, the family left and the girl found another trainer that would let her do the higher jumps. Perhaps if a judge have said something to this girl it would have motivated her to loose some weight.
Unless there is a serious weight problem that is affecting the well being of the horse, I do not think a judge should say something. The rider is probably already aware of the problem and is self-concious anyway. i would report any judge that made an uncalled for comment like that. But remember, if you ask the judge what they think and you WANT their opinion of your riding, you are going to get what they really think!
I myself have the “perfect” equitation body. I 'm 5’10", 123 pounds, and I eat EVERYTHING! I eat 2x as much as everyone in my family, I just have a really fast metabolism. People may think that I am anorexic or whatever, but I’m not. I got LUCKY! Sometimes it is totally genetic and you cannot control what your body looks like! You just have to work w/ what you have and make the best of it. 
~Sarah~
Thank you for an eloquent and passionate plea. I couldn’t agree with you more.
There were two seriously aneorexic/bullemic female riders in the GP ring at Wellington - and neither look like they will survive til next year.
How many people will DIE from this stupidity? And, believe me, they will die. Or as the Dr with whom I was recently chatting about this said, "I’m surprised those two are still alive.
“We don’t talk about it” is norm: don’t talk when someone is COMMITTING SUICIDE by starving themself - but blast them because they are normal happy people with big bones, muscular thighs, and breasts. Speaking of sick behavior on the part of judges and coaches. Gee, has it ever occurred to anyone that that round soft shape is NORMAL for a woman??? and in other societies, coveted??!!!
Fitness is key - I know, because for the last 10 years (well, more), I have spent the majority of my time staring at a computer monitor. When combined with certain health problems, my body suffers. And while I did not lose weight during my 8 weeks in FL (actually, I do not keep a scale around, so maybe I did), I did gain a tremendous amount of riding fitness - and that shows.
People - do everything you can to get FIT, EAT and eat right, and find the horse that compliments your size and shape. And DON’T show under judges who make stupid comments such as the one in the above post.
I recently had a very bad experience at a horse show involving my weight. I’m 5ft 8in, I weigh 120 adn I wear a size 2. Here’s my story- I was at a horse show last weekend and I was really nervous. I had just shown and I was waiting for my score (it was a WCHR horse show). The next person was finished and my score had still not been announced. I’m trying to qualify for Devon, and I needed first place points really badly. I asked a trainer (who is also friend) if they heard my score. Just then I heard it - I had gotten an 89. I won the class, and when I was walking out of the jog, I overheard a trainer telling my trainer what a talented rider I would be if I lost ten pounds. They were both agreeing how much more I would win. Later I won the AHSA medal. The judge came up to my trainer after the horse show and told her I should get an eq horse and that I should be doing the eq too, b/c I shouldn’t waist my “body”. The judge also said if I was planning on going to Devon and do the eq I should go on a diet before I went! I don’t get it! I didn’t think I was fat before last weekend! Now, every time I look at food, I just wasnt to vomit b/c I think the only way I’ll win is if I llose weight!
