Thin Soles, or....? Input appreciated!

[spicyAF]

Ready to pull my hair out over this one… bare with me…
7 y/o OTTB purchase off the track sound last July. She came to me sound (only xrayed ankles and knees which were all clean) with overgrown feet and need of trimming. Had shoes put on her a few days after arrival, she was sound and wonderful and amazing for about 6-7 weeks until she got back-to-back abscesses in her back hooves. As soon as she was recovered from that, she began to have a subtle LF lameness. Figured she tweaked something (after ruling out another abscess and changing pastures)… gave her some time. weeks later shes still grade 1 lameness LF. Very subtle, not any worse but not much better. In the meantime, she was being shod what seemed like every 4 weeks from a thrown shoe and he would do a complete shoeing and trim (fronts only at this point). After about 6 weeks of no better/no worse, had vet come out for shots/lameness exam and she was sound. Rode great that day and was lame again the next, of course…

2 weeks later still off, called vet back out for lameness exam. She pretty much blocked out on second block and did radiographs (Will try to include them in post). Rads showed very thin soles and some ringbone/ish stuff but that wasnt in the joint and was def much worse on RF which shes always been sound on.

Decide to do shoeing with pads and did coffin joint inj to help her over the hump… 9 days post injection she was worse, day 11 she was the soundest she’d been in months. Rode her lightly, next day I lunged her before being shod again and she was sound… lunged her again after shoeing, shes lame. I’m frustrated. Wondering if shoeing job is the issue (don’t want to be that person but i’m out of options) and talked to vet to try another shoer. This shoer did similar shoeing but said although balanced, her soles esp LF are very thing. Did slight wedge with packing and leather pads. Just got second shoeing with that and shes STILL not sound. am I not being patient enough with new shoer??? Ive also been told she should be sound pretty quickly with these specialty shoes with thin soles… i’m just dumping money into a horse I cannot ride and cannot seem to figure out if i’m even adressing the correct thing at this point.

Desperate for other opinions… will try to attach rads from beginning of december. She has excellent diet with added alfalfa and feet grow really fast. Thank you!

[Critter]

No suggestions really, but I feel your pain. Last August my mare went lame, mild and progressed over 2 weeks. Blocked to the foot. We had had farrier changes…my farrier of 25 years had been hurt in March…vet’s farrier covered us 2 shoeings thinking my guy would be back…then he decided to shrink down his travel, so I was cut out. Switched to a new farrier who did 2 shoeings, then it was clear my mare’s feet had become very long and flat dinner plates.

That was first week of August. Vet’s preferred farrier came back out and did different shoes and pads. Still lame. Vet came back out and went, hmmm these feet don’t look good (UGH!!!).

At that point I had enough and went with a different farrier group…gave them all the xrays and block info. They did a different approach with rockers (rather than a wedge) and pads with pour ins. I’ve never in my life paid so much money for a pair of shoes!!! But…my mare was sound the next day.

I gave her more time off to make sure we were actually sound…I was able to start lightly working her the end of November. Then we had crappy cold weather and so she was off a lot of Jan/Feb. In a way I am glad she had more time for whatever it was to heal. Knock wood, she’s been back to regular work and good.

We are going to try pulling the pads next shoeing…but keep the rocker shoe. Will probably keep that set up until at least the fall, then maybe we can go back to a regular shoe. Her angles are soooooo much better.

But it just takes a really long time to fix lameness issues related to shoeing/angles.

[Simkie]

These weird lamenesses that block to the hoof are often an issue in the soft tissue within the hoof capsule. Are you willing to do an MRI? It could be pretty enlightening.

[RemarkableOwl21]

The shoes should help with the thin soles if it is that. My guy has thin soles and I usually have him barefoot but I ride in scoot boots . But, sometimes with wet and muddy weather he turns up lame for an while and will still be lame in scoot boots. Then we do shoes and he’s sound.

How is the horse’s environment? Is he in wet and mud a lot?

[spicyAF]

Thanks! Ugh so frustrating and an absolute money pit. I have also noticed that bute doesn’t help. anyway, my horse shoer insisted the feet weren’t the problem… vets and xrays said otherwise… but who knows if they were pulling at strings there as well.

I guess my questions is, am I being too impatient with new shoeing or should she be feeling pretty good pretty quickly with these new shoes/pads fairly quick if the soles are the problem?

[spicyAF]

Simkie,
The thought of spending the money on an MRI makes me want to vomit haha! whats weird also is that bute doesn’t help, and the coffin joint injection didn’t do much either… which leaves more questions than answers at this point. I will also add she is only very slightly ouchy with hoof testers… if the soles are so thin they’re making her sore/off, shouldn’t she be more sensitive to them?

[spicyAF]

she is in a dryer lot with good draining. She acts a fool in her pasture and will look super sound, then I go to lunge her and shes off on LF (esp lunging to the R) also, bute doesn’t seem to help at all… I have more questions than answers at this point

[Incantation]

A long time ago, I had a gelding that I bred who was on again off again unsound for years, beginning as a yearling. At the time I didn’t realize that my farrier sucked. The horse had long toe/under run heels. I had multiple vets look at him over the years, diagnosing him with the low heels, or thin soles. Every time it was considered a shoeing issue. He had a good trimmer by time he was 3ish, but continued with the lameness issues throughout his life and through several more farriers and trimmers, both when barefoot and when shod. He was supposed to be my next event horse, but ended up being a fabulous trail horse instead.
One day, when he was in his teens, I rode him up a hill to the barn, and he started crow hopping. I got to the barn and he was dead lame, LF. Had the vet out who finally referred me to a vet with an US strong enough to see into the hoof (at that time US were not as common as they are now). He had a DDFT injury, where it attaches to the coffin bone. He said it appeared that he had an initial injury as a youngster, then re-injured it may more times. Sadly, it was so bad at that point that he never came sound.
I would look into at least an US of the hoof if you can’t afford an MRI. I wish it had been available when he first went lame.

[spicyAF]

Thank you for this information- I am def open to considering something else is going on at this point. It just sucks to pour money into something and get no answers or improvement. On one hand, I know thin soles take time… on the other, I would anticipate some kind of improvement at this point. I don’t think MRI is an option at this point in time… I just can’t justify the cost while we are building a house. that being said, at the end of the day, when our house is built and we can move her over there, if shes a pasture pony than so be it and I get something else. It doesn’t seem to affect her unless shes being worked. I just wish i knew something one way or another so I can quit pouring money into something thats not working, or continue knowing it’ll get better. ugh!! and shes so young!
It is strange to me that if its the soles… shes not super ouchy to hoof testers… frankly if shes ouchy trotting on the lunge line , you would think she’d be ouchy to the testers…

[Lost_Shoe]

I suggest trying barefoot with hoof boots. It will help out your wallet and may potentially help your horse (since every horse is different, you won’t know unless you try it). Going barefoot is (counterintuitively) beneficial for horses with poor hoof quality. It can toughen their soles and improve hoof quality. It takes commitment by the owner though, because the owner should learn how to do maintenance rasping in between farrier visits for best results. There are numerous threads here about barefoot, maintenance trimming, and hoof boots.
Another thought is maybe it is a rein lameness. A rein lameness can be vexing to vets because nothing is wrong from a medical standpoint; it is a mechanical disturbance in the gate caused by or worsened by the rider or lunger. The good news is a rein lameness can be fixed for free. The bad news is that it is a journey to identify and address it.
Another thought regarding soft tissue: if the vet thinks it could be a soft tissue injury, if I were you on a budget I would skip the expensive diagnostics and go straight to the treatment/recovery/rehabilitation plan. An MRI just provides information; if you are comfortable with a degree of uncertainty, there is every reason to skip it and no reason to feel bad about skipping it.

[spicyAF]

all great points- thank you!
I have definitely considered just treating it like a soft tissue issue and rehabbing it accordingly. It’s already been about 6 months. ST injuries typically take 6-9 months to heal. Unfortunately , stalling her is not an option. She loses her mind in the stall now that she has tasted freedom of pasture board from the track… lol. I tried to keep her up for the night after her coffin join injection and she about jumped out of the stall… these horses make it so difficult on us even when we are trying to help them!!!

[Bonnie2]

So she blocked sound on the “second” block. What was the first block and what was the second block? I would expect the thin sole issue to be numbed by most vets’ “first” block. You need to figure out what was numbed by the second block that was not numbed by the first. You may need another veterinarian. The timing of the initial onset would also jibe with her being injected at the track not long before you bought her. Just a possibility, not an accusation. I also completely agree with you that if her soles bother her enough to limp, she should react to hoof testers. I would either pull her shoes and give her some time off (economical option), or take her to a lameness specialist and start over (expensive option!). Good luck!

[spicyAF]

Hey Bonnie2,
Couldn’t agree more with you. So, she blocked out to abaxial block (about 90%).

Possibility of previous block from track wearing off… yes this did cross my mind. I hope that’s not true and I don’t think it’s the case. I have known the person I got her from for 20 years, and I knew the trainer that had her before this girl. Nobody had soundness issues with her and this girl loves her horses. Could she be full of it? always a possibility with anyone, no matter how much you think you know them. I just don’t think thats the case, but time will tell.

It’s an even so slight grade 1 lameness. Doesn’t really get worse, doesn’t really get better… ever so slight but it’s there. Yes I Agree why isn’t she super reactive to the hoof testers?? Also, why is whatever is going on not responsive to bute?

I also completely agree with either say screw it, pull her shoes (she overall does have good feet that grow well) and give her time. Or find another vet… not the easiest in a rural area but we shall see. At least I have imaging of her feet to compare to… (also ankles and knees I took before I got her which were both clean)

[Pehsness]

Are you treating for thrush, and how’s the nutrition?

I have won the thin sole battle. We went from soles i could dent with mild thumb pressure to walking and trotting sound on gravel.

• every thrush treatment under the sun. The best imo is hoof doctor.
• religiously feed appropriate vit/min supplement. I like mad barn omeity. And I mean religiously. No waffling trying this and that.
• forage based diet. Soaked hay cubes to mix the omneity
• don’t touch the soles. Don’t let a knife anywhere near them. At most wire brush to have a clean surface for the hoof doctor

Once I finally stuck to this the hoof gods smiled down, the feet cracked open, the bulbs developed, the walls are thick and healthy, the bars quit laying over and pooling and the soles are lovely and thick. I really wish I had extra money lying around for rads, to compare with the ones I have from 5 years ago where there was barely any sole.

His mane and tail are also twice as thick now.

[IPEsq]

Did you ultrasound? With response to abaxial block and nothing obvious on X-rays, I would ultrasound everything you can see from the knee down.

[spicyAF]

all great info, thank you!

[spicyAF]

I have not US. only rads. may be next step…

[Critter]

Hmmmm…when the new farrier I got came in, they were like, these feet are clearly a major issue and they were up front that it might take a few shoe cycles to get things back on track. Especially knowing we blocked to the foot and she was sound prior to farrier changes.

We were also faced with a MRI being the next option. I didn’t really want to go down that road…so I fixed the shoes and gave her the time off. I did turnout because she’s not crazy when out…and unless there is a super acute major injury reason, I prefer to let them be out. I’ve successfully rehabbed a few soft tissue injuries with allowing turnout. Might take a little longer, but I’ve had happier horses and less major setbacks when they do go back to work. I figured if I gave her the few months off and did a few shoe cycle changes and if then she was still lame, then we would have to MRI.

Mine did have improvement with bute (a bit higher dose) and had to be on it a bit longer than I would have liked through the initial shoe changes.

Maybe if yours is sore in the sole, the pads are actually making it worse? It was one of the things my new farrier mentioned…that the pad the vet farrier put on was probably contributing to some soreness from the pressure it was putting on (as a wedge full pad)…that why they did a rocker and pour in. The rocker lets her adjust the angle pressure instead of forcing it all the time with the pad.

[paintedpennypony]

Maybe time to pull her shoes, get her on a short cycle and rasp her toes between trims, and kick her out for 6-12mo of Dr. Green? Then leg her up slow when you bring her back into work. If she’s “just” subtly lame then perhaps it’s time to stop ripping your hair out, back off for a while, and give your wallet a break.

[kaya842]

Can you post photos of her hooves and the radiographs you had taken?