Thoughts on Kaufman Kill Pen

[RyeHard]

Hello there!

So, before I get into the real questions, I would just like to disclose that I know a lot of people disagree with kill pens altogether. Frankly, I don’t have too much hands on experience with them so no comment there. I am not making this post so you can tell me how much you hate kill pens, so please refrain from such comments.

Ok, onto the topic of this post. I have heard some rumours floating around about Kaufman and the legitimacy of their operation, and I would like to hear your thoughts on the matter. I have never visited, nor do I personally know anyone who runs the place so I really have nothing to back up any claims that I have heard. The most notable being that they do not post the actual horses that will be shipped. I have seen some really cute prospects on there, but I honestly have no idea if this place is true to its word. Long story short, leave me your thoughts on Kaufman. Educate me!

Thanks!

[soloudinhere]

What does this have to do with Eventing?

[RacetrackReject]

I think there are a few groups that list for the Kaufman pen, and I think that which group you are dealing with makes a difference. Yes, I know they’re all a fraud to some extent because most never have any intention of sending the horses to slaughter, but at least one lies almost 100% of the time about what it knows about all of the horses it lists.

I know a few people (and seen many others talk about it on FB) who have bought horses from one group and the horses turned out to be absolutely nothing they said. Actually, I think at least 2 of the horses even had to be put down due to non-disclosed issues that the group had to have known about when they listed the horses. I also know a few people who bought horses from a different group that pulls from Kaufman and the horses seemed to be exactly as listed and are really lovely.

The Kaufman sale is a mixed bag itself though, like any low-end auction. Buyer beware and all that. If you buy something from anyone associated with it, don’t expect the horse to be anything other than a rescue that may need to be euthanized for its own good and you will not be disappointed, but I’m afraid that having any hopes beyond that could be a major disappointment.

[RyeHard]

@soloudinhere I’m an eventer, so I just posted in this forum. Sorry if that bothers you.

@RacetrackReject Thanks for your input! Looking at all of their horses, it does seem like there is no way tons of registered and broke to ride horses with good temperaments would be shipped to slaughter.

[Meg.bcha]

Kaufman Kill Pen. It’s not an auction. Horses at auctions end up in these kill pens. The kill pen owner goes to auctions all over the country and brings them to Kaufman. Mike then ships many of those horses into Mexico. I do not support slaughter. It is a unfortunate necessary evil in our equine world of over breeding and ignorance. BUT… if a horse has to end up on the way through the slaughter pipeline, Kaufman may not be the worst holding pen. It’s clean. Automatic waterers, free choice hay, and feedings. Horses are separated appropriately. Since Mike has stated the FB posts, he has been buying horses from auction that can also be sold to private buyers. He allows several rescues to operate within his business and help place horses. Yes, Kaufman sends MANY horses to Mexico for slaughter. But he also makes saving the “good ones” possible. His knowledge of the horses are limited, so we never know what we may get. He buys them from auction sales that also have limited knowledge.

Ive got a horse coming to AL on Thursday from Kaufman. I just hope he’s mostly sane and mostly sound!

[Meg.bcha]

[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“medium”,“data-tempid”:“temp_50817_1523104703686_471”}[/ATTACH]​ [ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“medium”,“data-tempid”:“temp_50816_1523104699457_705”}[/ATTACH][IMG2=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“full”,“src”:"https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/core/image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAPABAP///wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw==)​ [ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“medium”,“data-tempid”:“temp_50815_1523104691571_62”}[/ATTACH][IMG2=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“full”,“src”:"https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/core/image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAPABAP///wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw==)​ Me meeting my guy!

[ecpolo]

Whatever you do, Please QT horses from Kaufman for at least 30 days. I cannot tell you how many times bastard strangles has rampaged barns in TX because someone brought in a Kaufman “save”

[Djones]

Same for N Florida

[allons-y]

Not Kaufman, but I bought a killpen horse on the internet. Not young, but registered so I knew that. Weird feet, big ankle and seemed barely handled. Big dent in face from halter. I think he was out as a breeding stallion, now gelded. I did QT since he was unknown and very snotty.

He’s coming along nicely now. I knew it was a risk. I mostly wanted to give him a soft landing, no matter what. The fact that I can groom and climb on his back for a ride is icing on the cake. He’s becoming my newest ‘baby’, I love him.

[OverandOnward]

Not sure what you mean by “legitimate”. It’s a killpen. A real one. He ships horses to an export pen on the border that sends them to slaughter. He also sells some to the public.

IMO a wise buyer from any killpen is likely to have a pre-purchase exam that costs more than the horse. If the seller doesn’t allow a pre-purchase, don’t even think about buying. Unless you’ll be ok with a lifetime ornament with vet bills, in case that is how it ends up.

There is no real assessment of horses in such lots, whether soundness, health, training or temperament. Someone hops on for a couple of minutes who is experienced at getting horses to move forward from the seat. There is rarely any true history, maybe something like ‘he was a cutting horse’ or ‘she needs some work’ or ‘I think this one barrel raced’. The horse may have come from anywhere, they don’t keep up with it.

http://www.animalsangels.org/investi…rney-tx-8-3-17

The link just below is an older report that accurately describes the system. I think Kaufman may not be doing quite the volume now that they were in 2016, but they are still one of the busiest in the nation.
https://www.thedodo.com/nations-larg…700826409.html

I suggest looking for a horse from a well-run rescue instead. They do thorough assessments of horses and often spend time training. You may have to wait for the right horse, but there is no shortage. Here are two in Texas, not far from Kaufman’s …

TB’s: Remember Me Rescue
http://www.teamkeen.com/

Horses of all types, mostly smaller ‘backyard’ sorts: Bluebonnet Rescue
http://www.bluebonnetequine.org/

And if you prefer to see more horses at the source, and not do a rescue contract, these TB’s are mostly from Delta & Evangeline in Louisiana, but others as well. More are coming through all the time.
https://www.facebook.com/GulfCoastTBNetwork/?ref=br_rs

Canter Texas is back in operation
https://canterusa.org/texas/

Good luck finding your next horse!

[PaintedHunter]

If there are auto waterers, that’s definitely new. When I was there in fall of 2015, all the water troughs were empty. No one was around when we got there, so my friend and I filled them and horses literally fought each other to drink. Violently striking and beating each other away.

There was also ankle-deep mud in the pastures, and the horses were sticking in it. The pens were entirely overcrowded to the point of being completely unsanitary. There was a mini horse on the ground literally trying to die. We saw MANY horse and mules - without even entering the pens - that were obviously infected with strangles, with large throat lumps and green noses. Sadly, the Haflinger my friend had paid for in advance just the day before had a very green nose, and the Kaufman owners had to have known about that when she put her money through sight unseen. That horse has been sick a while, and was VERY sick at that.

The horse died in less than two weeks, despite vet treatment. I will never, ever forget the sight of watching her be put to sleep. And since then I have wanted to tell everyone about Kaufman. Don’t buy from them.

[OverandOnward]

And what PaintedHunter says above is par for the course for a killpen. Remember the owners of these killpens stay in business, year after year, because they make money off selling horses to people like us. And by shipping the rest to slaughter.

[PaintedHunter]

I wrote a blog post at the time, before little Miss Muffin died. It has just a few photos I was able to take while on site. Sadly, I didn’t get any photos of the empty water trough and the super, super muddy pen. https://ridingwithscissors.com/2015/11/02/were-killing-our-horses/

[ewells]

Just to Add this is a well written and recent article explaining the Kill Pen “system”.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/liberty-valance/the-truth-about-kill-pens-are-you-really-saving-a-life/1767799979902551/

[Palm_Beach]

It’s a racket. And NEVER donate to bail a horse out - there are scams where the same herd of horses is sent to auction, purchased by the kill pen buyer, “bailed out” via online donations, and then that exact same herd goes back to the auction after having spent a few months on the back 40, with everyone taking a piece of the donation.

[tinah]

Can someone explain to me the allure of sending $850+ to the Kaufmann type deals as opposed to buying the horse from the sale barn for $75-$400?

[RubyTuesday]

@tinah

Can someone explain to me the allure of sending $850+ to the Kaufmann type deals as opposed to buying the horse from the sale barn for $75-$400?

Because someone usually says “OMG THE SLAUGHTER TRUCK IS COMING!!!” Or so I have been told. It also allows people who give to them to have the warm fuzzies that they’re saving the world, while gasp SHOPPING for a bargain is “being greedy”. I keep having people trying to drag me into the loop.

[OverandOnward]

@ewells

Just to Add this is a well written and recent article explaining the Kill Pen “system”.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/liber…7799979902551/

That’s a pretty accurate graphic of “The Kill Pen Circle”. A private buyer may pull one horse out of the loop, but in no way does that diminish the flow of horses to slaughter. Of course it has helped that one. It has also made the kill pen business more profitable and the killbuyers happier, pulling more horses through the pipeline, and earning more. It’s an incentive for some people to get in the business, or stay in the business. That is, for a true kill pen, which the ones in Texas and Louisiana and several other states are, for the most part.

To the kill pens listed in the article, add Thompson Horse Lot aka Double S Kill Pen, who are located near-ish the others and work the same general geographic area.

[Horses_are_Blessings]

My thoughts on Kaufman Kill Pen and kill pens in general. Yes I agree will many comments about this being a money making racket for the kill buyers. But the rescues who fundraise and individuals who bail these horses out are not perpetuating the problem. This is a multifaceted problem and part of the problem is irresponsible breeding, backyard breeding and people not understanding the long term commitment of owning a horse. I bailed my mare a year ago from Kaufman and knew it would be risky. But fortunately I connected with a wonderful rescue who did her QT and nursed her through stangles and conjunctivitis. My mare is truly amazing and is now healthy and living a wonderful life. If I had not taken her she would have gone to Juarez Mexico. How can we hit the kill buyers in the pocket book: 1. Screen and follow up with people who buy your horse. 2. Research an Auction before selling your horse. Many have a reputation​ for selling to killers. 3. Be a responsible breeder, over breeding is a real problem! A kill pen horse can be an option, but it can be expensive and takes patience and commitment.

[OverandOnward]

@Horses are Blessings

… 2. Research an Auction before selling your horse. Many have a reputation​ for selling to killers. …

I am at a loss as to why a responsible horse owner would send a horse at auction. There is no screening the buyer, no assurance of what kind of home it is going to, even if the buyer is not a killbuyer. It’s pretty much throwing the horse’s life into the wind, exposing it to any kind of fate, including neglect and abuse.