Part of it you have to take into account the horse’s conformation. This guy’s neck ties in very low to his chest. Training helps but you can’t change the horse’s basic conformation. He is carrying his neck about as well as he can in the first picture but that doesn’t mean it won’t be a struggle to telescope his neck like that under saddle.
2 Likes
Correct. That’s why if you hsve lots of money you buy the neck.
But if you buy and ottb you will be reshsping a lot of it.
I’ve never contemplated necks except in a Morgan way …laidback shoulder, upright head. I think i spend most all of my attention to leg action. I’m trying though. It’s as much an adjustment to me changing my pov as it is to them to reposition i think!
This is a very good example thank you for sharing!
1 Like
The hind legs trail. How far do you want to go because there is a lot of work getting them under? Would be nice to see canter.
Thanks for the critique!!! and yeah, rarely do they move into a canter in these BLM videos…not enough room maybe, too much stim at both of the ends? Dunno. I bid on a couple who did sshow a few steps of canter. But only a couple of them. The rest only trot. This guy…nobody likes him but me. No you guys, not my SO. I SUPPOSE that must mean something. lol
If you want, you can see them in my mustang shopping thread. My list of 6 is kinda toward the bottom of the comments.
1 Like
I agree with Maple And SusanO, He’s a pretty horse but I would not choose him at all for a dressage prospect. Too many things going against you there physically.
2 Likes
I like him too. 
But I don’t look for an upper level horse, I look for all arounders and that guy is probably very handy.
4 Likes
Updates, in case anyone is interested:
This study confirms several key components of Celeste’s work: Neuropathic Pain May Be Root Cause Of Dangerous Equine Behavior - Horse Racing News | Paulick Report
There is an upcoming webinar with Celeste and Yogi Sharpe, The Equine Documentalist, on December 10, adding to the list of scientists, vets, body workers, and saddle fitters backing her work. All Courses - The Equine Education Hub (thinkific.com)
And here is another blog about similar work Why I Regret Putting My Horse Through Kissing Spines Surgery | HORSE NATION It’s not Celeste’s work, but the principal is the same. Celeste is approaching it from the most basic level of anyone I’ve seen which is important because, as we know, it’s all about getting the basics right.
4 Likes
Sadly Celeste’s ground breaking work for the soundness and good of our horses is securely behind a paywall.
12 Likes
Typically one pays for knowledge… your college education, your trainer, your vet… I don’t think any of these make a regular habit of giving away knowledge and information for free (and if they do, I’d like their number, please!). Even your doctor charges you to save your life.
4 Likes
That’s really broad.
I’m Canadian, I go to my doctor “for free.” 
but besides that, institutions with important things to say are constantly sharing knowledge for free. Hit Google and look up some scholarly articles. Hit YouTube and watch Ted Talks to your heart’s content. Turn on public radio and listen to science shows, current events shows, etc. Go back to YouTube again and check out some dressage videos. Are you going to get the complete version equivalent of being involved in person? No, but you’re going to get enough to make you a bit smarter, pique your interest, and maybe look into spending a little money on whatever items are for sale that might help you learn more about the topic.
Celeste’s price for breaking down her pay wall is exorbitant considering the horribly disorganized information you will fund on the other side.
It’s a shame. If it were organized and she had something to sell (a book, decent online courses, etc.) other than a rat’s nest of tidbits of info wedged firmly between a lot of unnecessary crap, she wouldn’t need a pay wall for all the other junk.
OTOH, a wall does hide a mess if you’re on the right side of it!
10 Likes
I actually find Celeste’s site worth every penny it costs. I’ve done other subscriptions over the years that didn’t give me nearly as much information for similar costs. Everyone deserves the right to use their work products to make money. I don’t understand all the flack about this.
5 Likes
Of course everyone deserves to make a living off their work! I don’t think anyone is saying they don’t.
However, with a metric shit ton of better organization, better marketing that actually gives people a clue instead of a really huge “warning this is another nutjob” vibe and a more open access to smaller materials (book, etc), some of the stigma surrounding her would disappear. THAT would be a good thing because I do think there is good information hiding within. It’s just the manner it has to be extracted is a huge turn off for many.
8 Likes
But most of these things are not free - your healthcare, funded by your government, is paid for by your tax dollars (unless the doctors there don’t get paid? Surely they take a salary). Scholarly articles are funded largely by the institutions that fund the work (often through open access fees - as someone formerly in academia and now in biomedical research, don’t even get me started on these!), public radio is paid for by people like me (yes, I donate monthly to TWO public radio stations). “Free” resources provided by your government (e.g., informational websites, etc.) are supported by your tax dollars. YouTube is free, but … well, you get what you pay for most of the time (to say nothing of the fact that it’s not “free” - you’re supporting it by watching ads… if it’s “free” to you, then YOU are the product). As someone who donates money to public radio, and pays monthly subscriptions to online newspapers, I can tell you first hand that if you want quality (insert whatever it is here), it will almost never be free. Someone is paying for it.
I don’t actually have a dog in this fight, beyond resenting the culture that all information should be free (I don’t work for free, why should others?), but I guess I’ll say a few things about Celeste’s approach (this is coming from someone who is in the group, so I’m not speculating, I know what is on the other side of the paywall).
- I don’t find $150 to be “exorbitant” - that is well within the price I pay for one session with a bodyworker, or a clinician. And it is WAY cheaper than a month’s worth of weekly lessons! For access to Celeste and her approved trainers in there to post pictures and videos and have them comment, and see their evaluations of others, I think that’s a pretty good deal. Especially since it’s not a one-time service - you get to stay in the group and keep learning continuously - they don’t add more fees when they add more content, either!
- I think it’s important to keep in mind that Celeste has been building this community for only a short while. I believe she has a book she is writing, so presumably you will be able to purchase that eventually and see if it resonates. I suspect as time goes on, and she works out the kinks to presenting her ideas, things will become more organized (and it already has, from when I joined the group months ago to now, they’ve made positive changes). Even Michelangelo didn’t paint the Sistine Chapel in a week. (Not that I’m comparing the two… just point out that it takes time to organize ones thoughts in a presentable way.)
- For folks who have the “well I’m not going to pay for it if I don’t know what it’s about!” approach - fine, don’t pay for it lol. If it doesn’t resonate with you, then don’t join. Celeste is booked up with 1:1s months in advance, I assure you she doesn’t need your business.
Anyway, I’m not trying to argue with anyone on this thread. I just really hate the idea that people should give away their information for free. If the method and ideas resonate with you, then do it. If not, don’t. It’s really that simple. 
Edit: I see your point about removing the stigma around her work. I totally agree with you there. I think it would be nice if that would be the case, because I agree it makes it seem a little like black magic since there is no insight. I guess she’s not too concerned about it 
(though I suspect with time that will change, also, and she’ll figure out how to share her information in a way that meets her and her clients’ needs).
8 Likes
Wrong thread, sorry!
1 Like
Shouldn’t EVERYONE say “if I don’t know what it’s about I’m not paying for it ahead of time?” The fact that you expect someone to go in blind says a lot about the cult like nature of whatever is behind the paywall.
Celeste has a secret method, behind a paywall, that only she knows and can teach, but it will perform miracles on your horse. MIRACLES. I can either go in totally blind or not at all. No other choice. Even the few people who have blogged about it remain vague and tightlipped about what exactly they learned, while maintaining it changed their horse forever.
Frankly, the idea up thread that you just poke the horse with your finger and he magically goes better is ridiculous.
I don’t expect to pay for something for free, but I’m certainly not going to go in totally blind. It also chaps my hide that something that is supposed to perform miracles is so utterly secret. Selfish.
26 Likes
I think you’re being a bit hyperbolic. I don’t think she ever claims her method will perform miracles, for starters - saying that just adds to the air of mystic. (I do think her nerve impingement work might be borderline miraculous, since nerve impingement is a very real, very debilitating problem for which there not great treatments in many cases, but that’s not really what this thread or the facebook group is about.)
And sometimes you don’t get all the info you want - if I want to lesson with a local trainer, they probably don’t have a website or a book I can look at, or videos online. I can ask friends for their thoughts, I look for reviews maybe, maybe I call the trainer and have a chat, if they show, maybe I can look up their scores (if I pay for the USDF membership). If I’m lucky, I can go watch a lesson. Sometimes I just have to go and see if it works for me (and yes, paying for it, even though I’m uncertain), and if not, I don’t lesson with them again. Same thing with vets or farriers. Sometimes we have to jump in even if we don’t have all the info (or not, I guess - you don’t have to jump in until you’re ready!).
That being said, above I describe the method. It’s really more simple than people think. Celeste’s method teaches you the functional anatomy to know and understand what is going on, then she guides you to guide your horse to get there. Then there’s some more functional anatomy about how to strengthen the thoracic sling once the horse is reliably moving with the brachiocephalicus turned off (but like I said upthread, I think a lot of us dressage folks can probably take it from there, provided we are working with an excellent trainer).
Frankly, the idea up thread that you just poke the horse with your finger and he magically goes better is ridiculous.
I don’t actually know what this is referring to, so I can’t comment, but I assure you this is not part of her method lol. I think we would all agree that this is ridiculous
5 Likes
x1000!
@Feathered_Feet I think you missed most of my point, but that’s ok. Nobody is saying anything worth having is truly free or should be truly free.
About YouTube though? I’m ok with being the product as long as I can continue to save $$$ on small plumbing repairs! LoL And, there is some really, really good content out there - to keep this dresagey, videos of Charlotte Dujardin doing various masterclasses - no, you don’t get the whole experience, you don’t get the in-the-moment-live experience, but you sure can pick up some great information and that can drive paid attendance at symposia, etc.
For me, personally, $150 absolutely is exorbitant when buying something for which I can find pretty much zero useful background information (and that which I do have via someone who did pay and is now totally captivated, makes me raise my eyebrows and wonder if I now know someone I could describe as a cult member.) I wouldn’t toss $150 USD out the car window on the highway.
Again, nobody is saying that anyone’s work should be given away for free. Nobody. Secondly, it’s NOT that simple. One cannot possibly have an idea of whether methods and ideas resonate if they are completely unavailable.
As to her one-on-one sessions being booked up in advance - great. Whatever. There are a LOT of people in North America willing to throw money at anything that might make their horses better. If it works for them, great. If they think it works for them, also great. The thing is that jumping into things blind does not appeal to many of us and we might be potential customers who could have been reached through a more transparent style of communication.
11 Likes
Curiosity got the best of me…and what is behind the paywall is a hot mess.
It is multiple hours of Facebook lives describing the reasoning and anatomy behind the method. Some vague discussion of exercises but no step by step on how to do the exercises - because every horse is different so you need to set up a 1 on 1 to learn those.
Is the concept interesting? Yes. And it probably has some basis.
But the delivery is underwhelming and the grab for more cash off putting.
24 Likes
