Thoughts on "The Traveling Horse Witch?"

Hi everyone. I am writing to clarify a few things on this abhorrent thread. Both as someone who has known and worked with Celeste for a decade and as an Admin on the Masterclass.

The Masterclass was never capped. When it was originally launched, Celeste expected it would be small, but it ended up being about 250. The response with requests to join after from lots of people posting about how amazing it was was so overwhelming that she decided to leave it open for replays for those who wanted it. As time went on she decided to add more lectures and content to it and it has continued to evolve to meet the requests from members over the past year. There are now nearly 3000 members and over 15 hours of lecture and boatloads of educational content and more to come. So yes, it has absolutely been an incredible success both financially and more importantly, for the equine community which is why you “can’t seem to get away from it” in terms of people suggesting it left and right.

As in all groups, there are community guidelines and rules. One of the things that makes the Masterclass group so successful is that it is a fully encompassed safe place for everyone from top tier professionals to amateur horse owners. The rules of the group have always been very clear: You can and will be removed from the group for being rude, disrespectful or argumentative. The group itself is also complimentary, is advertised as such, and therefore cannot be refunded.

The “cone of silence” is not what is being depicted here. From a post on May 27, 2022 in the Masterclass: “You are NOT allowed to advertise that you teach this or give demonstrations on it, in any capacity if you haven’t received a full sign off from me. You ARE allowed to use it with your clients and business as long as you are giving credit to the methodology and being clear that you are simply studying and practicing it but are not certified in it.”

This is just common sense for liability issues and ensuring the safety of horses. You cannot listen to a lecture and watch a few clips and then go off and say that you are teaching it or understand it. The apprenticeship that she does with her trainers are 2 years with daily check ins. This isn’t just a series of exercises. (And this class only covers a small handful of a very long list of them). It’s a methodology and checklist to ensure that we are keeping a consensual relationship with our horse, tracking their development and being thoughtful during every interaction of any underlying pathologies or concerns that may present.

Celeste has openly made the decision to take a lot of public heat for not posting blanket exercises because she deeply understands the potential contraindications and cares about the welfare of the horse. The entire purpose of the masterclass was to guide people through how to pick up on cues from their horses so that the exercises are done during a parasympathetic state and mindful to meet each horse where they are at, and so it can look quite different horse to horse. She could make a lot more money and get a lot more popularity if she chose to post those videos and the fact that she doesn’t is proof in and of itself that she cares more about a horse’s well-being than a dollar sign. I’m sorry for anyone who thinks that it is somehow awful for someone to make a good living at something they are passionate about, it is what we all strive for but few can grasp because of how difficult all of the work it takes to get and maintain it.

Dealing with things like this forum is a prime example of the trade off that happens when you are put in a public light. One that takes a huge hit on her mental health but she chooses to continue to show up publicly because of the vast differences that it has made for countless horses and programs.

Good marketing does not solve lameness issues. Veterinarians from around the globe would not be using her methodology if it wasn’t successful. She is fully licensed and insured in everything that she offers; they have never lapsed and all of that information is readily available and easily found through WA’s licensing site.

On a personal note, there is a real, live, feeling person being behind this business and the comments here are acting like there isn’t. Please check in with yourself as you continue being keyboard warriors and remember we all have opinions and perspectives, and if you don’t agree with her, move on! If you want to know about her, reach out! She’s happy to talk to anyone. There are TONS of trainers and methods out there. If she doesn’t resonate there is no need to keep dragging her through the mud. Casually looking at Instagram or searching on her website or listening to podcasts is not stalking. But a whole deep dive entry about her life, relationships, children, making accusations her daughter is adopted, and making suggestions for someone local to investigate her further could be considered as such.

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Hi @Rupicola, welcome and thank you for sharing your clarifications.

Is there anywhere that those of us who haven’t paid for the master class can see video of the end results of the training? As in, not “before and after” still photos from different angles or video clips from a horse that is improving but is still early on in the process, but video or action photos of a horse that has been trained to a high level through the program and is demonstrating the end result of benefitting from all these exercises. I have a feeling seeing evidence of real, tangible performance results would go a long way toward winning over those of us who are skeptical.

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Is she? Interesting that searches to verify such oft-touted credentials don’t seem to turn up that information.

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@Rupicola

We’d also love some clarification on Celeste’s as academic credentials and her horse training bio.

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Lazaris is her latest last name, from her recent marriage, several years ago. I didn’t find anything there under any of the names she is known to have used. From what I gathered, if there was ever any “massage” stuff, it was from before that time and she may have not done anything more than taken a massage educational course or two, through local massage businesses that offer those, and there would be no record of that outside of wherever she took a course.

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Five bucks says Houseguest #1 never replies.

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@Rupicola thank you for providing all the things - comic relief, head-shaking that is as good as a chiropractic adjustment (from a real, verifiably licensed chiropractor!), and confirmation of the depth of batshittery of the cult. Much appreciated!

I hope you, and sadly someone I know personally, seek help soon so you can come out the other side relatively whole and somewhat rational. Cults are terrible things that do great harm to members’ mental health, their world view, their perspective of others, and their relationships with other people (family/friends/clients) :frowning:

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I would have thought if her licensing was current it would be in the name she’s using. I doubt our houseguest will come back to confirm though! :rofl:

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She doesn’t seem to be terribly great at paperwork, as the state of Washington administratively dissolved her LLC for failure to file required documents. Blacking out the mailing address, because I have no interest in being accused of any kind of “witch hunt” or “stalking”. I just prefer to verify the credentials of people before I give them my hard-earned dollars.

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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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I am not a member of Celeste’s program, but I read some of her posts and see reshares on facebook and I don’t understand the vitriol. It seems to me that she is bringing awareness to an important part of the horse’s development. Promoting something that benefits the horse is fine by me, however you do it, and if you can make a living at it - good for you.

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I think there is always going to be vitriol against any method that claims to be the best method and utterly necessary for the well being of the horse, but also has a cult like secrecy. Making money is fine, but reacting in such a way when you feel like someone threatens your income is the issue. Good trainers with good methods aren’t so secretive , yet they still make money because their results speak for themselves. We don’t really have any examples of her results, besides some blurry screenshots, and there hasn’t really been a progression of training.

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Exactly. If she was just noodling around a recreational barn teaching nervous adult ammies how to massage and lead their horses safely, there would be no vitriol. What we are responding to is the over marketing by a fairly entry level trainer that relies on lies about her credentials, public secrecy, and over inflated claims of what she can do. And who goes toxic defensive when people question her.

All this [edit] that is a huge red flag. As someone who actually knows a bit about biomechanics and groundwork, I doubt she has invented anything new.

The most credible trainers are open about their methods, post video, and don’t claim to have reinvented the wheel. Credible trainers have a CV of the trainers they learned from and credit them happily. Presenting yourself as self taught us a dead giveaway you are a beginner.

COTH is a useful place to pool our knowledge and figure out what trainers are really scammers

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My intentions of starting this thread was honestly just trying to get information about a method that I was interested in. Sure it’s went a different way but that was a natural progression, imo.

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Hopefully the thread was useful to you.

For me it was very revealing to see the interpersonal [edit] and the contradictory credentials. Those are such red flags in any endeavor. And too frequent in horses because no oversight. I don’t care if person is competent trainer I don’t want to deal with [edit] and it always does end up impacting horse welfare.

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I think the issue is that she is making some huge claims of curing lame/crippled horses and essentially performing miracles with her “method” and yet the only “proof” available to the public that it works is her word and before-and-after photos that are delusional at best, and more likely deliberately misleading.

She may very well be a reasonably good horse trainer, but her program seems to be textbook charlatanism, and I hate seeing people profit from that.

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Ugh if the others in that ad are anything like Shayleigh and Celeste, stay far away.

My bf thinks they are hilarious though.

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But the ad is so, um, how do I say this? Appealing to a very specific type of horsey person. Note I did not say horseperson.

And the clinic (can we call it that?) is going to have a closing ceremony! What’s not to love?

I’d like to know if there will be candles and incantations. Or barf bags. Will there be barf bags for those that accidentally sign up not realizing what they are getting into? Although, by the pictures in the ad, I doubt that’s going to happen.

Oy.

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For all my grousing -which was really not personally directed against Celeste but rather the general category- I was in your camp until the exaggeration of credentials.

It’s so unnecessary. The whole theme of the thread is that people will think you are god’s gift if you just dress up “lowering the horse’s head” in the right language. Why lie??

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May we suggest some grammar and spelling lessons?

Advising others not to get dragged into a cult is about the best possible thing. It is incredibly sad to watch normal, sane, intelligent people turn into proselytizing maniacs who do actual harm to themselves by alienating others.

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