So. I contacted the owner of that video. She is mad. She did NOT know and Celeste did NOT “reach out to her”. Oh. That’s right. She’s the one who doesn’t play by the “rules.” She can lie at will.
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Wow. That’s some exceptionally despicable behaviour.
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This is COTH.
We have cookies and Cardboarddeau.
We don’t need your flavor of Kool-Aid.
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Hello there,
New here, and I only became aware of this forum because of a friend who suggested I read this thread after the hellish year I experienced with the Traveling Horse Witch. I’m not ready to share my story publicly, but I will share some observations over the last year.
Being one of the early adopters, sad to say, I naively jumped on the bandwagon of the next exciting new theory. Though, I think this Witch has cured me of this affliction. Silver lining I suppose.
At first, things in the course were very vague, there wasn’t much in the way of examples, and it seemed like the early students were just making up whatever they thought the Pillars were supposed to be. It seems the most popular ones ended up sticking, and the rest were eventually told they’re doing it wrong.
The video examples offered were poor quality and not very clear. The first demonstration video of the 3 Pillars (3 core exercises) was of Kathyrn Lowry, working a horse in hand with an infant strapped to her chest… that alone was extremely off putting. It wasn’t very clear what she was doing or what she was attempting to show. It took about 6 months before any actual helpful footage was presented. Eerily, it felt like the exercises were being created from the course itself? Like they didn’t actually exist prior… That might be a stretch, but it was a weird nagging feeling I’ve had at the back of my mind since the start.
What sold the course is the first Live and how many controversial topics were discussed in a way that seemed genuine with a “tell it like it is” charisma, and “finally someone is calling attention to the elephant in the arena” sort of thing. Anyway, it’s a lot of talk, a lot of misleading photos as was already addressed above. But, sadly, the results from finished horses appear to be all but missing. CLL is extremely elusive about sharing footage of herself from her years of competition experience as she claims. Loaded with empty promises of “we’re working on compiling photos,” and “I don’t have time to film my own horses.” Yet, there seems to be plenty of time for half-naked photo shoots and long winded Performative Vulnerability posts, but I digress.
It is true, and I have witnessed more than a double dozen times over, if you question CLL in any way, shape, or form, either she or her acolytes jump to action with claws out. It’s bizarre honestly. I think any reputable trainer would be able to handle being questioned professionally, assuming they have nothing to hide.
The Masterclass shifted sometime late spring/early summer. The original script that made the course so popular early on (being against hyperflexion) quickly seemed to morph into defending it. The direction of the class just as quickly shifted to something far less desirable than it already was. Most of the early adopters who had some sense of knowledge prior to the course dropped interest in it around this time.
Over time, safe and free discussion became all but impossible in the group. All posts have to be approved before they appear in the group, I know of many who had benign posts rejected with no explanation as to why. If a question is actually approved by the mods, it is posted just long enough for one of the “group experts” to answer, and then commenting is turned off. Why censor discussion in a learning group, it seems odd.
There’s more, quite a bit more…
After much observation, it has become clear that if you are a trainer who passes CLL’s heavy vetting, you are then approved to become a BTMM trainer (magically any experience you may have had prior is clouded over and even credited to BTMM. Heaven help the poor soul who wakes up and tries to break free from that umbrella).
Part of that vetting (or in this case failed vetting) is if you post anything remotely about lowering the head or the thoracic sling or any of the topics highlighted in the group, without crediting BTMM in your own post (even if it has nothing to do with BTMM), you can expect an assault from acolytes and private messages from CLL herself. These messages are often full of gaslighting and bullying to get you to credit your posts to her. These same acolytes have been found on numerous occasions of outright attacking posts by Vets and highly educated professionals despite not having much or any credentials themselves. Part of passing CLLs vetting appears to rely heavily on whether you’re willing to be an acolyte or not.
Genius free marketing strategy, by the way. Why pay Facebook for marketing when you can just bully people into tagging you and crediting your program anytime they mention the brachiocephalicus, posture, thoracic sling, etc etc. Word of mouth is the most powerful advertisement after all.
There is no way to put this gently, her nerve release is downright scary. I know of multiple horses who have been injured by this technique under CLLs own hands. These people are afraid to come forward to tell their story for obvious reasons, as we have seen what happens to anyone who speaks up. Scapegoat central.
What is most concerning is this entire past year, CLL has been certifying people in nerve release after a single weekend clinic, even people with zero bodywork education or anatomical knowledge. It appears she is attempting to rectify this with what seems to be a more in depth online course, but it is very vague about what is included or if hands on learning is a requirement or not.
What is bad business behavior is the exorbitant rates being charged for these clinics, only to attend a clinic and learn that CLL has inexperienced students working with your horse instead of herself. I can only assume the students are paying to gain a weekend certificate on top of what the attendees are paying? I can only hope it is disclosed beforehand to the attendees that CLL herself won’t be working with their horses considering those high clinic fees.
I probably don’t need to repeat this as it’s already been said, but charging for access to a group with the stipulation that anyone can be removed for breaking rules without evidence of the rule that was broken is foul play. And happens to be grounds for reporting to the FTC. By the way the FTC is cracking down on social media Influencers ever since the pandemic gave all sorts of riff raff traction to earn significant sums of money for no tangible product being purchased. Reporting to the FTC can be anonymous, just an FYI to anyone reading this thread who have been a victim of bad business by TTHC and aren’t sure where to report it safely.
I have more, but this is already much longer than I intended it to be… it has been a very long year to put it mildly. I will add more at a later date.
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I look forward to your update, and hope you recover well from your experience.
In the meantime, I really want to know what these “nerve releases” are - not to do, but to know what not to do! Also because I’m a nosy parker.
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https://www.instagram.com/p/Co_S1emL4cd/?hl=en
You don’t ever quite know the story of the moment in time that you’re judging.
.
.
.
Throwing myself on the chopping block here to prove a point -
These photos were taken within moments of one another.
On the right you see a nice dressage balance and open throatlatch frame with happy animated movements.
You also see yours truly riding in a fairly defensive posture (albeit soft-feel for the contact), because the photo to the left would happen sporadically and without any real warning.
Could my equitation have been better and had me in a more receptive seat?
You bet.
Was my hyper vigilance not allowing my psoas to relax from protecting my internal organs from the flying lesson I was moderately concerned was about to happen?
You bet.
Everything, has a context to it.
Social media has really been extra loud lately on internet keyboard warriors slamming some pretty incredible professionals because of less than ideal moments in a photo.
Meanwhile never once asking for the history of the horse or what is going on.
I understand judging the FEI for what they’re allowing and judging upper level horses for not having a trapezius or other developmental things that are clearly not just from a moment in time, but as whole you guys…
Ask some questions or at the very least be willing to get on some of these fire breathing dragons and show a better example yourself before you continue trashing people that are out there actively showing up in the world.
I’m not even worried about the horse here. I’m worried about the lack of helmet. Spent a day in the hospital with a friend dealing with a TBI from a freak accident with a helmet. Sad that more aren’t choosing safety and displaying safety online
@theblonde_and_thebay While this wasn’t a question asking why I didn’t have a helmet on, I’m happy to answer it anyway -
The trainer for the horse was injured and he needed a gentle hack around the obstacles at the show for his amateur rider. I was there as a bodyworker with no intent to ride (note the tuning forks in my boot) and the only helmet available was too big which I’m sure as you know is more dangerous than none at all.
Clearly things transpired during the hack and here we are with the before and after that I had for a purpose that was other than advocating for safety gear.
Anytime we get on a horse it’s a risk to our life, helmet or not.
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Based on her haircut, that was from a few years ago, when she apparently started her business, around the time she was engaged to or had just been married to her current husband. You won’t find much before that, other than her being barn help in the Tacoma area and competing in one or two shows, in the early 2010s.
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Thank you. I knew I wasn’t alone but it sure as hell felt like it. I agree with everything you’ve said about the “Masterclass” and it’s evolution. It actually DEVOLVED from January to June, when I posted my one and only, and last, post with a picture of one of my horses. I never participated after that. HOWEVER: I paid to be IN the class. I didn’t voluntarily leave and was ejected and not refunded. TTW HAS “rules” which extend beyond the bounds of the group, “inside and outside of the group rules,” which means you are being monitored everywhere on FB. Your personal page, other groups, conversations on other members’ pages. It must be exhausting. And the minute she decides you are “wavering” in your fealty, off you go with no explanation.
I do not believe “veterinarians world wide” are singing her praises anymore than I believe her multiple claims to matriculation at any accredited university, much less achieving a four year degree in anything. I also never saw photographs or videos of her competing at any recognized horse show. She has created her self and “method” out of whole cloth, refusing to even acknowledge any visual or auditory input from ANYONE ELSE. We do not exist in a vacuum. There is absolutely nothing “new” under the sun, just contrived ways of speaking of the old. The horse is the horse is the horse. It is not the dive of the unknown ocean depths, nor the exploration of galaxies “far far away.” I am grateful for anyone who comes forward. Maybe I am an idiot for sharing my real name, but I have never hidden nor will I start. I have zero to hide. TTW apparently has much to hide. That is why she is “behind a curtain” pulling levers and pushing buttons lest others see the truth. TTW is a master of “word salad,” as many self aggrandized “gurus” are. But. The truth can never be hidden. It seeks the light.
BTW, someone sent me her post of packing two turquoise inlaid (of course) pistols shoved into the belt of her fancy coat. claiming “people would see and leave her family alone.” ! BTW. The name of my ranch has a 
and my horse’s name is “Rosie” ; maybe a stretch. But. Maybe not. image|231x500
Is it me, or is this all just…surreal?
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As many are quite aware, CLL is very elusive and secretive about nerve release. She won’t allow auditors to observe the nerve release portion of her clinics. This is a major red flag, what is she hiding?
As far as I can tell, BTMM nerve release is a watered down mix of myofascial release and trigger point therapy. CLL seems to have human therapy education (and she claims licensing) in Structural Integration, aka Rolfing. She has written openly about applying this human modality to horses “in her own way.”
A few individuals have said, during nerve release the horses are more often than not exhibiting severe pain responses. Such as backing away, biting or even lashing out. (CLL wears metal bangles on her wrist to prevent being bitten on her arms). These pain responses seem to be normalized and even revered as part of the “unwinding process.”
One particular student of a nerve release clinic some months back had publicly boasted about these pain responses being a good thing and even desirable. It is concerning, and I do hope this area is looked into closely, considering non-professionals are being certified in this technique.
As far as I understand it, myofascial and trigger point should not be applied more than 30-90 seconds, per week, on any one given area (any google search on the topic will clarify that further). It is rumored that CLL will spend the better part of an hour working solely on the brachiocephalicus. I don’t think it would be a stretch to presume this is how those aforementioned horses may have been injured.
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It is surreal but to me it reads like typical MLM online bullying and harassment combined with the marginal fake horse trainer world
There is a fascinating genre of expose YouTube videos by former huns. It’s clear that straight up lies about product and credentials and bullying of downline are standard tactics and anyone who asks questions or just tries to slow the pace is attacked full on. These aren’t rouge actors, it’s SOP in the current MLM world. They also have strong cultish aspects. Many of the players also appear to exhibit toxic narcissistic symptoms but the whole enterprise is meant to elicit and use and normalize narcissism.
Anyhow, THW now has her estimated $500 k nest egg from her online group. If that was a one-time membership fee then her income potential is now probably maxed out. But that’s the way MLM works. You go with one product, often a scam product, and maximize your revenue before the complaints and FCC/FDA attention gets too much.
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Sadly, I would have to agree on the MLM theory, it tracks.
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Quite. Surreal. But. Real.
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Huh. Clearly I made a grievous error when I stopped reading this thread days ago…
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Warwick Schiller’s commenting on her gun posts, now?
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It keeps getting weirder. Click bait. More click bait.
Now I am very curious what she does during nerve release.
Does getting the name BTMM trademarked make it alluring like it is legit?
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I mean I’m not saying she hasn’t actually trademarked it… But… Neither the state of Washington (where her dissolved LLC was formed) or the federal patent office seems to have a record 
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That was the first name that came to me while reading this: Pony Boy cultivated the same sort of mystical cult worship, along with the same style of glamor pics of women doing the Vulcan mind meld with their horses as proof of a speshul relationship.
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Well that was an interesting exchange to read. I get the points on both sides.
But Rarely will the average horse person be using a/any word with the exact same meaning as a much more qualified expert. In part, the average person cannot possibly understand all the details because they don’t have the same training.
But that is not the same thing as the “average person’s understating” haven’t no useful meaning at all. It is a useful term for them at their level.
And this isn’t just a horse thing. This issue pervades society with ‘super’ expertis arguing over details that have nearly zero utility to the average person on a day-to-day basis.
Kind of like how some of the basic laws of physics fall apart when looking at the extremely large and small, but those contradictions don’t mean squat for 99.999999999999999% of humans who have ever, or will ever, live.
It is interesting to read this thread having just come out of 16 months in another program. That appears to have been much more complex than the THW, but still many similar issues.
The desire to ‘make it’ as a business owner does lead to people making some ill informed decisions. Which makes sense. Most of these folks (from Parelli to everyone else offering instruction and certifications) are not business experts. If they were, they’d be making their $ doing something a lot less obnoxious and difficult than training horses. Like cornering the market on Porta Potties in their state.
From my observations , these issues crop up one decision at a time. Rarely does anyone start with a master plan to build the Third Reich of online horsemanship. (Italian homunculi excluded) But they stretch, reach, falter and improvise their way forward.
The Vet Sue Dyson had a big stumble, I believe, over filling out some forms for a very big research study. She got in serious trouble. Even losing her licensure at one point ? But I hear little of people complaining about her “error.”
If THW is really laying it on thick with the BS, then her clients have a right to have some explanation. But that does not mean that COTH posters should really be pursuing and publishing details about who’s her baby’s daddy, etc. That just loses credibility for the supposed truth seekers.
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For what it’s worth, this is what many of the online equine business consultants are telling pros to do. Offer a freebie, then try to ‘convert’ to a sale. I see more every day. Businesses selling help/courses to horse pros to help them in their horse business. Many are saying very much the same things. So I would not hold this against a pro, necessarily. They are getting this advice from other ‘business experts’ who are supposed to be helping them with their online offerings.
