I know I have learned a lot about this Celeste person from this thread, and know what I will be doing in the future in regards to recommending her and her program.
Hard - frikking - no.
Also disappointed that W.S. would mess with this junk.
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I’ve done minor research into this topic as I was curious myself. I am far from an expert, and what I found comes from a brief curiosity search into the topic. I could very well be wrong here.
What I found is as you’ve said, nerve impingement is usually treated via surgery or injection in western medicine. Alternative medicine such as chiropractic or Osteopathic care can sometimes relieve mild nerve entrapments.
A typical Neurologist treatment may include physiotherapy and pain relief medication, in more severe cases, surgery may be an option; however in the majority of cases, such as a nerve compressed by a disc issue for example, the protruding gel like substance compressing the nerve, will eventually shrink away from it with time, and symptoms will resolve themselves.
There are loose theories regarding massaging a muscle that is perhaps holding tension patterns, where massage can supposedly relieve pressure on various nerves, but the research I was able to find on this topic is spotty at best.
All of that said, a lot of this seems to depend on what one qualifies as a true nerve impingement, and in the massage circles, this appears to be poorly defined.
As far as what has been discussed in the Masterclass with THW, there was a lot of theory based around birth trauma to the thoracic sling, causing nerve impingement to the brachioplexus nerve root, even going so far as claiming birth trauma as a probable cause of development and training issues in adult horses as theorized by THW.
I was able to find a few research articles discussing birth trauma in foals. Typically, birth trauma tends to happen with maiden mares during their first birth, resulting in rib fractures and thoracic trauma. The research in this area has mostly been funded by the racing industry. One example here https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10213427/
The point is, research is not where it should be to make exacting claims that a horse exhibiting lack of development as a riding horse equates birth trauma or nerve impingement based on anecdotal claims alone, which seems to be the case with BTMM particularly.
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Yup.
Any horse that hasn’t been either running the range as a true feral Mustang or in a good advanced riding and gymnastics program is going to be underdeveloped in some significant ways, and the mustang won’t be developed for riding.
Virtually all the lightly used, semi retired, evergreen, or even lower level OTTB jumpers, etc, are quite likely to have bad posture through lack of correct work. It isn’t from birth trauma or even neglect just from standing around in paddocks munching hay nets 23/7. They are just the equine equivalent of office workers slouched over their computers all day and need to hit the gym and a Pilates class.
I am sure virtually all the horses of folks who join the program have posture deficits, because if they knew enough to fix them they wouldn’t bother with the program.
However the in hand work that helps raise the abs and pectorals is not rocket science and Celeste is not the most knowledgeable trainer doing this
However when you invent an entirely new vocabulary to describe well known techniques, you are either trying to mystify your target market or you are actually ignorant of the larger discipline, and in this case I suspect both.
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Oh gah, I’d forgotten that phrase in the convos I’ve had with the TTHW disciple I know. Everything short of missing limbs is blamed on “birth trauma” if it can’t be blamed on abuse or not following TTHW Ugh.
Editing to add (for humour) that missing limbs would probably get blamed on the dam not having had the benefit of TTHW!
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Birth trauma.
I know…I need to market equine rebirthing seminars…wrap the equine up in quilts and squeeze them back out the canal while chanting…maybe add some drums…
I’m just missing an opportunity here. Darned ethics.
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Birth trauma is definitely a thing. Fractures of the ribs of the foal as they are born affects something like 20% of foals. My girl had a traumatic daytime birth that I missed. Mare was torn from A to B and the foal was “stolen” by another mare and had to be rescued. I suspect she came out at a gallop and did not hit the ground running, but rather with a thump.
The foal is now a mare and she - to this day - cannot stand it when you do up the chest strap on a rug, and girthing up is a pantemime of mare-faces. Connected? Possibly. She has an indent in her pec muscle that cannot be explained either.
The Impact of Birth Trauma on Horse Welfare and Performance (horsesandpeople.com.au)
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Well said, couldn’t agree more!
You forgot the tuning fork!
@Old_Mac_Donald I don’t think anyone here would say that there is no such thing as birth trauma. It’s the labelling of every small imperfection or asymmetry as caused by “birth trauma” that rankles.
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There is this book written by Dr Courtney Diehl; she is a vet. She has a chapter or two about the chanting, tuning fork remedies that are side-splitting. And occasionally rage-inducing.
Worth a read!
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I ALMOST asked about the tuning fork like 4 times…and then I just couldn’t get through the “what the heck” ness to ask the question in a serious fashion.
Reminds me of a chiropractor I went to exactly once that came highly recommended…they used some sort of thing that they squeaked with their thumb to diagnose where I was “out”. I graciously noped my way out of there. I’m a bit concerned about chiropractic anyway as I’ve heard terrible things about internal decapitations. Massage is fine.
@Old_Mac_Donald - I do believe horses can suffer from birth trauma. I have one in my paddock right now who I suspect was a dystocia case (unattended birth, found on the opposite side of the fence from his dam…definitely a little special). I just have a hard time with the “everything my horse does is because of some sort of pain or past abuse” line.
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My bad, I misread your post.
Maybe it should be called “birth injury”, to denote an actual physical injury, seeing as trauma seems to have been appropriated by the psychological crew.
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Thank you for clarifying my post so simply. This is indeed what was meant.
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These types would probably just latch onto the new word and turn that into a trendy new catchphrase to sell, unfortunately. Sort of how the term biomechanics has lost its meaning entirely at this point.
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This is just so well said!
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Lol @ “rehabbed into a neutral spine”
Any horse, even one trained through the School of Boring People Who Do It The Same Way It’s Always Been Done, can stand in a posture that is less downhill if he’s inclined to do so. The height of a horse’s withers varies greatly depending on how tense or relaxed he is and how he’s standing. That doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong, or that anything has been “fixed.”
Additionally, a horse’s diet and workload greatly affect his topline, which in turn affects how “downhill” he looks.
Furthermore, changing the photo angle ever so slightly makes a big difference in how balanced a horse looks in a picture. No photoshop needed.
On top of that … who actually gives a rat’s behind if a horse looks downhill in photos or not? Show me that the horse is performing better, now able to be ridden to a higher level, or doing something other than … looking better just standing there. “Uphill conformation” is useless if the horse doesn’t actually do anything.
I’m still waiting for one of the disciples/houseguests to share some video or photo showing its effectiveness in a ridden horse. You don’t have to share the secrets. Just show the results, and if there is actually anything there I might be interested enough to want to know the secrets.
Side note … I’m tired of everyone saying their horse needs “rehab” because it could stand to gain some strength and fitness, or is a bit asymmetric. 95% of them aren’t injured or in need of specialized “rehab,” most are just the horse equivalent of couch potatoes in need of work to build fitness and strength.
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Here is a podcast with Celeste. #69 Humble Hoof podcast
“Celeste-Leilani Lazaris talks about how the body can affect movement, hoof balance, and soundness. She focuses on the thoracic sling and surrounding soft tissue and some approaches she takes to get horses with weak necks, backs, etc. to a level of comfort in order to grow better balanced hooves, allowing for healthier angles. Celeste talks about the results she sees using the Balanced Through Movement Method. For more info, see: www.wildmagicllc.com”
Not to mention
My all time favorite
Linda Kohanov
I mean if that chick is entitled to a business I don’t see how anyone else can be denied ?
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Horse psychology… The perfect new grift!
Of course, horses experience emotions and learn from their experiences, but lately there’s an absolute epidemic of horse owners “diagnosing” their horse with specific human psychiatric disorders… without seeming to realize that mental illnesses have very specific criteria and not every negative emotion or behavior is pathological.
“My horse has PTSD. Last time we schooled over jumps, he crashed through a fence and now he’s been refusing jumps.” No, your horse isn’t mentally ill, he’s exhibiting a very reasonable fear response to something he has a bad experience with.
“My horse has a severe anxiety disorder. Ever since moving to the new barn, he’s really hot under saddle.” No, your horse doesn’t have a mental illness, he’s eating sweet feed and had his turnout time cut in half when he moved barns.
“My horse has a panic disorder so he can’t be tied.” No, your horse isn’t mentally ill, he was never taught to properly tie and has learned that pulling back is the way to break free.
And so on. Someone without ethics could make a killing offering CBT for all these “mentally ill” horses.
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Anyone can buy a book on horse conditioning and condition their horse with it.
Scamming people is not ok. This feels like a scam.
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Celeste never once mentioned hooves of hoof balance until a member in her Masterclass mentioned it. Here she is taking CREDIT for her method growing “healthier angles.” Hello. As a barefoot trimmer for all of my personal horses, poor trimming and in particular, open heeled steel shoes, can and do cause caudal failure and cascading body effects. On movement, balance, comfort. This is the first time I have seen someone claim bodywork or little exercises can grow better feet. Not saying it can’t happen, but it is MORE likely that correct hoof care creates comfort. 
. My point is, she took the idea of hoof angles and ran to the bank with it. There is nothing her majick can’t do 
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