"Throw- away" foals?

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=LaurieB;7421831]
Among the other inaccuracies being propogated by that rescue is the sentence I highlighted above. TB mares are no different than mares of any other breed. Biology works the same for all of them.

Mares can be bred on their foal heat, which means that they will be bred 10-14 days post-foaling, but it’s much more common for TB mares to be bred on their first “real” heat cycle which occurs at about 30 days.

Many Kentucky farms don’t allow foal heat breeding, since the chances of the mare conceiving then are much lower than on the second heat cycle. Stallion books are full, stallion handlers are busy, and they would rather concentrate their efforts at a time when they are more likely to bear fruit.

In NO case are mares bred as soon as they give birth. There wouldn’t be any point since they’re not ovulating then.[/QUOTE]

But so often these “rescues” go by the “close enough” school of reporting. I’m sure they think “well, rather than explain about foal heats, etc., we’ll just say the mares are bred “as soon as they give birth”…I mean, that’s close enough to 10 days later, right?”

So if follows that rather than say “the orphan foals are then raised by giving them milk from a bucket or they are humanely euthanized (which I’m sure is sometimes the case)” they go for the far more dramatic scenario of starving to death (which would not be very efficient, would it), beating them to death (seriously?:mad:) or gunshot." The last may occur, but and it may be rather hard-hearted, but it is quick and painless.

Again, I’m not a big fan of the whole nurse-mare idea anyway…I feel that if you are breeding horses for profit, you can afford to raise an orphan without causing harm to another horse. It’s perfectly do-able…just more labor intensive.

[beowulf]

Any chance this rescue (should I put quotes around that?!) is getting most of their (wrongful) information from the PMU industry?

[Beaver_Breeze]

To reiterate/in summation:

Foals are not removed from mares and put on nurse mares so the dam can be bred. They are either (most often) left in a stall on their own for a couple hours, or accompany the mare on the van and stay on the van (or perhaps a separate stall, like an extra teasing stall). Leaving them behind is preferable because it is no detriment to the foal and the mares tend to focus better in the breeding shed without them hollering from the van.

Mares coming from a slightly longer distance away will come with the foal and the foal will be on the van or an empty teasing stall as described.

Mares coming from out of state either ship prior to foaling, or after foaling, to a farm where they are boarded. Then the above cases remain the same.

Foals are not put on nurse mares unless absolutely necessary, as in cases of death of the mare, severe illness/poor health of the mare, or the mare is dangerous to herself/the foal/people. It is never done as a convenience. Period. It ISN’T convenient.

End of story.

[Galileo1998]

Michelle Mueller’s Olympic eventer Amistad was a nurse mare foal by Ascot Knight. Interesting story. He was born at Windfields Farm here in Ontario.
http://www.cedarvalleystables.ca/amistad.html

[Houndhill]

Many thanks to all who have replied. I am attempting to explain these issues to my friend.

It is amazing how mixed-up things can get! I appreciate all the thoughtful comments.

[wateryglen]

I had a nurse mare offspring Belgian/TB that was bought at a local horse auction. There were several brought to Va. from Ky. and all were draft crosses. Draft mares bred by tb’s. They were highly prized by local foxhunters which mine became also. Had him 25 yrs. He was weaned early and turned out with the tb weanlings. Was told that some nursemare foals are offspring of teasing stallions or young good tb stallions who needed to “practice” on a docile draft mare who are good natured. I’ve heard that some draft mares CAN nurse 2 foals also (one tb/one draftcross) but I don’t know if that’s true. My gelding showed no ill effects of his early weaning. I’ve also had 4 PMU’s who were weaned early but again all seemed to have good natures. Ky used to send a lot of tb/draft crosses to Va. where they are prized. Someone also told me that there’s a chance my horses sire was some big name tb used when he was just starting out and THAT was the reason why they preferred to sell them outa state- so no one would be able to trace their lineage. Who knows! But I think the fears of rescued foals is largely unfounded. Only had good experiences thusfar. Just my 2 sense!!

[FatDinah]

“There are plenty of horses who are pushy & disrespectful that were never orphaned.”

Good isn’t that true!
My gelding would have been a horror if he hadn’t been raised as a foal with a 12 hand POA gelding. Boomer’s mom let him do anything but luckily Uncle Cap was there to kick the crap out of him when he was rude.

[jenm]

[QUOTE=Houndhill;7427004]
Many thanks to all who have replied. I am attempting to explain these issues to my friend.

It is amazing how mixed-up things can get! I appreciate all the thoughtful comments.[/QUOTE]

It will be difficult to explain this to your friend if she is reading something like this:

http://www.greenhorn-horse-facts.com/nursemare.html

[Ben_and_Me]

Just want to reiterate what LaurieB and Beaver Breeze have said, as all their statements have also been my experience.

The nurse mare farms I’m most familiar with tend to use paint-cross type mares that throw color – these nurse mare foals seem to be easier to place, and some of the draft mares produce too much milk for TB babies.

The mares are leased for the season, and have to be returned to the nurse mare farm pregnant or else the leasor is penalized. In my experience, the mares are typically bred to the farm’s teaser stallion (who has also been selected for his temperament).

Having a nurse mare is inconvenient, to say the least. Bonding between the mare and new foal can be lengthy and dangerous, bringing in infectious disease is always a concern, etc.

The nurse mare industry is tough financially – one of the biggest suppliers that I know of went under earlier this year.

Foals in central Kentucky are typically left at home for the mare’s shed run – usually only a couple of hours. They seem to handle it surprisingly well.

[ellevt]

[QUOTE=Toadie’s mom;7420008]
IYee haw!!! The WBs don’t have to worry about any limitation rules in their registries. There’s not a WB stallion in the world breeding that many mares.[/QUOTE]

Actually many of the European registries have limits. For Holsteiner stallions, for example, the limit is 75 mares for the first 3 years, and then possibly can be increased to 120 mares afterwards. MOST WB stallions are not breeding that many mares to be sure, certainly not in the US. But for a Cassini I or a Landgraf in his prime? No problem. Keep in mind that the landgestuts are subsidized by the government, and stud fees are very cheap to German approved mare owners.

[Freebird]

Bumping this up to ask what is probably a silly question: Where do the majority of the foals at Last Chance Corral come from?

[Appsolute]

I have wondered the same. People here said that these “nurse mare foals” are not a result of the racing industry.

I linked above, but I will link again.

According to this Paulick Report article (a racing rag)

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/nurse-mares-four-legged-mary-poppins-to-the-rescue/

Some larger farms keep their own band of nurse mares, while others lease nurse mares as needed. Bill Roseberry, who manages Roseberry’s Nurse Mares in Central Kentucky, said he gets calls throughout the foaling season, although this year seems especially busy. He’s already sent 26 mares out to help struggling foals and has received an additional 60 or 70 calls requesting his mares. Roseberry keeps close to 100 mares on his farm, many of whom are Quarter Horses and Tennessee Walkers.

Because nurse mare foals are bottle-raised, they tend to be very gentle and people-oriented, making them easy to market as riding horses or 4-H projects. Roseberry said he sells many for this purpose, keeps a few to add to his band of mares, and works with a farm in Ohio to successfully place those that don’t find homes right away.

I am willing to bet money that Roseberry is a source of a number of foals that end up at Last Chance in Ohio. And I am also going to guess that a number of the nurse mares he provides go to racing homes - but maybe not. Maybe the Paulick Report opted to interview someone that has zero to relation to the racing industry, for his racing industry new letter.

By the way, Last Chance posted on May 1st how they received a shipment of 10 “nurse mare foals”. Bringing their total on the farm to 23 foals. I don’t know who is producing them, but that seems like a lot of foals that have been pulled off their dams.

Taking care of that many nursing age foals sure looks like hard work.

Roseberry, above, also claims that these horses are “easy to market” as 4H or riding horses. REALLY? Bucket foals are easy to market? I wonder what age they are when he sells them (the ones that do not end up at last chance corral).

I also don’t know how I feel about the fact a 501©3 is picking up where a for profit nurse mare farm falls short.

(this little guy didn’t even get colostrum before ending up at last chance)

[Texarkana]

I’ve never worked with a nurse mare farm that dumps their foals like that. Every single one I’ve dealt with keeps the foals through at least 3-4 months: an appropriate age to transition from milk replacer/milk pellets to regular feed.

Shame on whatever farms are sending young foals, pre-weaning age to rescues!

[rcloisonne]

Because nurse mare foals are bottle-raised, they tend to be very gentle and people-oriented, making them easy to market as riding horses or 4-H projects.

Bottle raised foals are very gentle and people oriented? Who knew? :rolleyes:

[CVPeg]

I have H/J and other riding friends who have colored all racetrack issues by pleas from the LCC, and adopted 3 when they first opened their own barn.

For years I’ve had to hear about how those nasty racing people do this regularly, and how every horse is loaded with steroids - including my own - who hadn’t raced in 6 months when he came back from a winter break. No, he had just been in training, working for the past several weeks. He wasn’t on 'roids. And that wasn’t why he lost so much muscle mass after being “given time off”.

All because of these nursemare foals. But considering some of the rescue names behind that effort, who to believe?!?

[Joanne]

Wow. One of the foals was less than 24 hours old. Must have been quite the trailer ride for one so very young.

[BLBGP]

How many orphan foals are created every year through these programs?

[Kachina]

[QUOTE=BLBGP;7575829]
How many orphan foals are created every year through these programs?[/QUOTE]

GOOD question.

[CrowneDragon]

[QUOTE=PeteyPie;7418785]
berzerk llama syndrome [/QUOTE]

Hmm, I have been contemplating a change of screen name and we have a front-runner…

[PeteyPie]

[QUOTE=Appsolute;7568783]
I have wondered the same. People here said that these “nurse mare foals” are not a result of the racing industry.

I linked above, but I will link again.

According to this Paulick Report article (a racing rag)

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/nurse-mares-four-legged-mary-poppins-to-the-rescue/

I am willing to bet money that Roseberry is a source of a number of foals that end up at Last Chance in Ohio. And I am also going to guess that a number of the nurse mares he provides go to racing homes - but maybe not. Maybe the Paulick Report opted to interview someone that has zero to relation to the racing industry, for his racing industry new letter.

By the way, Last Chance posted on May 1st how they received a shipment of 10 “nurse mare foals”. Bringing their total on the farm to 23 foals. I don’t know who is producing them, but that seems like a lot of foals that have been pulled off their dams.

Taking care of that many nursing age foals sure looks like hard work.

Roseberry, above, also claims that these horses are “easy to market” as 4H or riding horses. REALLY? Bucket foals are easy to market? I wonder what age they are when he sells them (the ones that do not end up at last chance corral).

I also don’t know how I feel about the fact a 501©3 is picking up where a for profit nurse mare farm falls short.

(this little guy didn’t even get colostrum before ending up at last chance)[/QUOTE]

Those pictures make me kinda sick. Heartsick. What is wrong with people?