Tie post/wall design

[cardinale]

COTHers have been incredibly helpful with advice and suggestions in replying to previous questions I’ve posted, so…here goes with one more: in a 12’ x 12’ grooming area, I want a tie post, not crossties.

Something like this is what I have in mind, with the post set against a corral panel to provide a barrier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLLlHcRE-_g

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.9yZBRXiZU9wZ8WAJfOpemwEsDh%26pid%3DApi&f=1
(sorry, in the second link the photo cuts off the actual tie ring but that’s the best still photo I could find)

How deep should the post be set? What is the optimum height for the tie ring (Blocker/Aussie tie ring) for ~16-17 hand horses? The post in the Blocker video/photos looks like a 6 x 6?? Any other design ideas?

Also, would this setup be safe for farriers and vets to work–a 6’ wide gate into a 12’ x 12’ space–entry and exit would be through the 6’ gate? Sides will be wood lined, front will be the corral panel.

Thanks

[Simkie]

I would hesitate to use a corral panel as a barrier in front of a tied horse, if any amount of fractious or impatient is expected. Pawing through one of those, or rearing and coming down with front legs through it, could get ugly. Solid in front of the horse would be better.

For height–at least as high as the horse’s eye. Higher is fine. Lower isn’t.

Have you considered putting your tie in the middle of the (solid) back wall, and leaving the front open for access? I’ve seen grooming stalls set up like that with cross ties & facing out as one option, and straight tying to the back as an alternative. Works really well!

[lenapesadie]

As long as the post isn’t wiggling when you touch it, that’s fine. The whole point of the tie ring is minimal pressure.

I agree with @Simkie that the panel in front of the tied horse isn’t ideal.

For myself, I’d “mount” the tie ring on a post in the back if I had to have that panel in the front all the time.

For vet and farrier work, that will depend on your service providers and perhaps their relationship with the horse they are working on. My vets and farrier routinely work on my horse in the stall when convenient.

[cardinale]

Thank you for the ideas and suggestions. The Blocker video does show wooden boards partway up in the openings of the corral panel; could be inserted all the way up. I agree about the danger of horses getting hung up in the bars so if I go this route would block off the openings all the way up.

I admit I’m scared of using cross ties, having seen a horse (not mine) flip over and fracture its withers. Was a while ago so I don’t remember how the ties were set up but presumably there was no give.

When tying a horse in the back of the grooming stall, do they have an issue with facing away from what’s approaching them? However, in photos of tie walls, looks like the horse usually stands turned a little to the side, so they are able to keep an eye on things coming towards them.

[Simkie]

@cardinale

When tying a horse in the back of the grooming stall, do they have an issue with facing away from what’s approaching them? However, in photos of tie walls, looks like the horse usually stands turned a little to the side, so they are able to keep an eye on things coming towards them.

I’ve never had one upset about being tied to the back of a grooming stall. They don’t usually stand exactly perpendicular to wall unless you insist, they seem to prefer to stand a little off to the side.

It’s a lot less trappy than having the front closed off at all. If shit really hits the fan, the more room to get out of the way, the better

[cardinale]

Thank you, Simkie and lenapesadie. I never would have thought of tying at the back but that makes a lot of sense. And, the front could be left completely open (12’ across instead of a 6’ gate) so easy exit if necessary.

[lenapesadie]

At one point I had my tie ring in the back of my horse’s stall, typically he would line up parallel with the back wall (approximately) so he could see the door at front of stall. They can move side to side a lot more single tied.

Good luck with your project!

[ayrabz]

one day you may want some cross ties…if it were me, I’d at the same time, place posts for those and your middle ‘single’ tie post. Only thing I disagree with is the comment of ‘as long as it doesn’t wiggle’…horses don’t just freak out in cross ties. they freak out from being ‘tied’…the blocker ring is FINE and some people love em. but the item its attached to should be solidly set or stationary for a full weight horse to pull back on. this is for their (and your) safety…uprooting a 6 x6 and racing around with it is just like tying your horse to a fence rail. an easy safety set up to make sure your tie posts are set solid for a 1,000 lb. horse. then use twine loops, or blocker rings or what ever you are happier with. Not knowing where you’re planning this space I’d also be careful of full exit opportunity. if opening allows them to race off into danger once loose. I made my area larger, and always close the gate opening. For me (I love crossties and want my horses trained to them) I will always enclose, but I undo chin closer on halter…and have had horses just slip right out when they had the occasional wig out…halter suspended still on ties and horse still contained.

my space is more like 14 ft wide and even deeper…barn doors on left I close, and behind mare in photo is a full 14 ft gate but far back enough and at an angle like my ties are. gives a deeper spot and any pull back/ release keeps them in the spot if they pull free.

[cardinale]

ayrabz, that’s a beautiful setup.

That’s a good point about not having a wide open “exit”–I thought it might be safer for vet and farriers if they needed to get out of the way, pronto. But, if horses realize they’re in an enclosed space they probably settle more readily, plus having a partially tacked up horse be able to escape into the big open area outside would not be good.

Obviously many, many people use cross ties safely and it would be good to have horses at least accustomed to them, for a variety of reasons. The contractor is starting on the project next week so there is time to add in a couple more posts. 6" x 6" square, pressure-treated wood, buried 3’ deep and set in concrete (won’t be pounded) sounds like the way to go.

How far apart are your crosstie posts set? My space is 12’ wide. Would a post next to each wall, so ~11-12’ apart, be too far apart for crossties?

[Simkie]

12’ is fine for cross ties. Reasonable to install, if you want, but it’s also just fine to straight tie your horse all the time, if you want. There’s nothing wrong with only straight tying a horse, and it IS much safer. A wreck in cross ties can really be ugly.

Most vets and farriers far prefer having an easy exit vs being locked into a space with a horse.

Most horses prefer entering into an open space vs having to go through a door.

[ayrabz]

thank you…but i have shared before that it was ‘easy’ for me, as, that is the width of space from run in exterior wall (which is same as front barn wall) to where I put a gate into that area, so for me it was running boards to that gate (right hand side of end of wash rack in pix) and using what space it ‘created’. it is different from what you’re trying to work with, for sure. and if your area is in your barn aisle (the opening) I’d say just be sure your barn exits are shut and its kinda the same thing. certainy don’t want a person pinned in too small an area with upset loose horse…for me? it was outside and I usually always have that gate open since its my entry to barn…but when I use washrack, I shut that gate so they don’t pull away out to the road! (my property is tiny) I am not sure? on the spacing, but I do know I researched/googled, etc to find out. (for post spacing as well as for ring tie heights) I realize most aisle washracks are walk in/walk out and not blocked off. I get that. mine was to secure a pull back slip away pony before the road! let me see if I can find the info on cross tie posts widths/heights/etc…

[lenapesadie]

@ayrabz

post. Only thing I disagree with is the comment of ‘as long as it doesn’t wiggle’…horses don’t just freak out in cross ties. they freak out from being ‘tied’…the blocker ring is FINE and some people love em. but the item its attached to should be solidly set or stationary for a full weight horse to pull back on.

But the point is that the blocker tie ring gives. There is nothing to pull back on. Ergo a solid mount isn’t actually necessary.

Previous BO banned tying horses to the stall grilles when a horse pulled back and bent her grilles. Exception if the tie is on a blocker ring cause no pressure is applied even if horse freaks and exits stage left

[lenapesadie]

@Simkie

Most vets and farriers far prefer having an easy exit vs being locked into a space with a horse.

Absolutely.

[ayrabz]

I knew ‘what you meant’ but I’d still make it a very safe secure post. (as in your example of stall grilles and mine of fence boards) can be pulled out and drug and damage both horse and handler. To me? a simple correctly secured post is best…blocker tie ring or not. JMHO. My ‘posts’ are in about 2 ft of concrete. My soil is pure soft fine sand. I wasn’t taking any chances. my cross ties are on drilled thru 6x6s with straight thru eyebolts and washers and nuts to secure all the way thru the posts. but I have quick releases on the ties, and I open my horses halter chin strap (but re hook up to same ring) so they can slip out if needed. I just don’t compromise on the post security. People mis use things all the time. (like stall grill bars!)

[ayrabz]

totally on board with the escape area for any human. my space is simply large enough that isn’t an issue. already expressed this may not be the case for the OP.

[lenapesadie]

I see what you mean. After a wreck with a tied horse I no longer hard tie. Full stop. So what I tie to is irrelevant as I’m not hard tying, which is what can lead to horses fleeing with a basketball goal in tow. Or breaking their necks when hard tied to securely concreted posts.

The OP mentioned risk aversion for tie wrecks and IME the best way to avoid that is to not hard tie a horse.

[ayrabz]

I think your input is correct and that we agree. Its just I want a secure in the ground post for the ‘non hard tie’ spot. thats about our only difference!

[lenapesadie]

If op ties in back she maybe able to utilize a structural post in the building so would be very secure!

[ayrabz]

I was thinking the same thing! would need the right bolts to be sure they couldn’t pull out if something went wrong with the blocker tie or someone used it incorrectly by accident…but yeah…I have some in my barn build structure walls too.

[anon81364900]

An option for the gate would be a “barrier gate”. It’s essentially a single pole that swings across the opening. You can duck under it to get out in a hurry. Or, mount it with a spring hinge so it naturally swings closed behind you but you can just push your way through it for fast egress. (Of course that wouldn’t contain a horse determined to bolt out of there, but for most horses in most circumstances, the idea of a fence is as effective as the fence itself. )

One nice thing about the horse facing the wall is the farrier gets more natural light on the hooves when s/he lifts them up.

Here’s another version of a barrier gate: