Timber Racing--Resources to learn more about it

Like many people, I was fascinated by the short CBS documentary on the subject of timber racing…and also like many horse-crazy readers, I’ve had a fascination with the subject of steeplechasing since I read National Velvet as well as more serious treatments of the subject from a British perspective. From following eventing, I know about the amazing Jennie Brannigan’s “dabbling” (if you want to call it that) riding over timber.

Are there any other resources around to learn more about timber racing? I’ve checked out some websites of course, but I was also just curious about the day-to-day training required for this sub-specialty of racing, breeding, and so forth, not just the history of specific events. I was also kind of curious how trainers stay afloat, given that it’s relatively confined to a tiny area of the country. Is this just a sideline for most racing trainers?

I don’t usually post in this forum so many apologies if any of my questions sound ignorant.

It’s certainly an insular sport. They have race videos here: https://www.nationalsteeplechase.com/2017-video-archives/ here which are interesting to watch. There are also some sporadic blogs on NSA’s website.

The Clancys write about steeplechasing- check out this about just an average day: https://thisishorseracing.com/news/index.php/opinions/by-joe-clancy/4556-stopping-by-the-farm

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Thank you so much, @pologirl27 ! I guess that’s why I find it so intriguing–it seems like such an offbeat sport, even in comparison to other horse sports. I’m also a big fan of Jennie Brannigan and when I heard that she was training for eventing going over timber, my curiosity was piqued. Also, the diversity of the backgrounds in the jockeys in the CBS piece.

Not sure of your location, but if you are in the mid-Atlantic check out the race dates on http://www.centralentryoffice.com/ as well as the NSA. Central Entry lists the unsanctioned point-to-points, which are often full of top notch horses preparing for their season. And if you are the type who’s confident eventing Novice, at a minimum, http://www.marylandsteeplechaseassociation.com/ has hosted a clinic for a couple years for newbies to racing.

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@pologirl27 As a rider, I’m far too wussy to try it but I definitely want to see one live in 2018!

I can fill in some of the blanks when I have some time. It’s not something that can be explained in a paragraph or two. AT least I can’t. We have an active jock rider on this forum. I think he goes by Bugboy or Jumpjock. Haven’t seen him post in a while.

National Velvet didn’t have a “timber” race in it. Euros only race over “hurdles” of different kinds. Timber racing is uniquely American.

Just about all of the top Event riders up until the early 80s rode point to point Timber races, The Maryland Hunt Cup etc. There was a great article in the Chronicle a few months ago talking with some of the “greats” of that era saying they wouldn’t have gotten to where they did without riding jump races, galloping race horses (flat) in the mornings. Esp young racehorses.

It kind of starts like this sometimes for horse, rider and trainer. At least for me at times being a trainer/rider, lol [ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:“Click image for larger version Name: IMG_0002.JPG Views: 2 Size: 25.4 KB ID: 9958211”,“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“9958211”,“data-size”:“full”}[/ATTACH]

Hopefully more like this most of the time [ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:“Click image for larger version Name: ches p to p.jpg Views: 2 Size: 14.0 KB ID: 9958212”,“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“9958212”,“data-size”:“full”}[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:“Click image for larger version Name: 545_129race_4_-division_2-_miles_valentine_novice018.jpg Views: 2 Size: 20.1 KB ID: 9958213”,“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“9958213”,“data-size”:“full”}[/ATTACH]

Both of those horses are now fox hunters in Aiken SC

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ches p to p.jpg

545_129race_4_-division_2-_miles_valentine_novice018.jpg

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@gumtree–those photos are fantastic! Especially that first one! And yes, I realize that British steeplechasing and timber racing aren’t really the same thing, although I have heard timber racing colloquially referred to as America’s version of steeplechasing and the Maryland Hunt Cup as America’s Grand National. Like all analogies, of course, it is imperfect.

Off to find that Chronicle article! It’s so cool how many different experiences people on the COTH forum have…

Running over timber is less than 20% of American jump racing. Probably 85% of races are over National fences - artificial hurdles designed to be jumped ‘as a stride.’ Timber is, of course, over solid rails, meant to be jumped clear and clean.
95% of timber horses raced over hurdles first (and most hurdlers ran on the flat prior to running over jumps.)
Not all hurdle horses have the style/can develop the style for jumping with bascule to run over timber.
Likewise, not all horses thrive in the ‘skip through’ manner of jumping efficiently to be effective over hurdles, so they do the summary few hurdle races to get the ‘run and jump’ notion then go straight over timber. (See Saluter.)
Hurdle horses can run in May of their 3 year old year though most don’t run over fences until their 4 yo year.
A horse can’t run over timber until partway through their 4 year old year, and some of the bigger courses/cup races have (or at least had) further restriction that they can’t run 'til 5.
There are several posters here that know their stuff in the jump world (and many many posters that know the flat racing world.) This site is a braintrust, that’s for sure.

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And there are a couple of ‘cross country’ races that have varied obstacles - some timber, some hurdle, some living brush, some oddball fences like an open ditch, a huge log, a big coop, a water splash.
And two courses still have living brush – Montpelier in Virginia tends to get ‘hurdlers’ in their brush race, while Willowdale’s brush course in Pa. is more bushes-growing-around timber fences. All the major tracks (Belmont, Del. Park, Saratoga, Aqueduct) used to have real live living brush hedges on permanent steeplechase courses. Those have been gone for decades, but some of the old timers still remember them. Joe Aitcheson used to wax poetic about the big brush at Delaware Park.
In general, hunt sponsored point to points in the spring mimic the sanctioned meets - lots of hurdles, some timber (though in Maryland, the ratio is reversed), and plenty of turf races which most horsemen use as tuneups for horses and riders.
The sport is a trifle confusing with all the lingo, but once you recognize the nuances, it’s actually quite simple, and akin to the minors feeding the majors (point to point/NSA sanctioned), and the various divisions could be likened to hunters vs. jumpers. Similar sport, differentmstyle.

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@Hunter’s Rest Wow, that was fascinating and clears up quite a bit of the confusion about the different types of races (and also the different types of horses used for the different types of jump races).

It really sounds like a labor of love for those who are involved, given the longer time needed to get the horse ready for racing as well as the time it must take to condition a horse.

I remember when this guy won the Grand National after winning the Maryland Hunt Cup. He was the first horse bred, owned, and ridden by an American to win the Grand National.

https://www.racingmuseum.org/hall-of-fame/jay-trump

That was a huge story, especially coming only a year after Team Spirit won the National under the ownership of a syndicate composed of two Americans and one Englishman.
http://www.grand-national.me.uk/1829/teamspirit1964/

Jay Trump’s Grand National:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7J0D_NHhNs

There are other videos of him on YouTube; search Jay Trump.

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@RPM Thank you so much! Those look fascinating!

I also found these interesting photos from a profile conducted by Forbes magazine of the sport. I don’t know how accurate the analysis is, but the visuals are cool!

https://www.forbes.com/2010/04/21/ti…/#8eeb0e16eca2

Also, this lovely profile of Senior Senator. I just love the deep affection for the horse that shines in all of his connections’ words:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/h…427-story.html

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So blonde question :slight_smile:

The Grand National Steeplechase at Aintree… is that classed as timber or is steeplechase different than timber or hunt cup?

I turned on TVG one morning recently and in the mornings they broadcast English & Irish flat and over fences racing. I wasn’t paying attention until I heard them mention Beechers Brook and the Canal Turn. Don’t think it was actually the Grand National. Holy cow the fences appeared to be quite large :eek: The course was Aintree and it was within the last month or so and I don’t think it was a reply.

Could it have been this: http://aintree.thejockeyclub.co.uk/e…cher-chase-day @Where’sMyWhite ?

Timber racing is an American phenomenon. In America it is pretty much Timber or Hurdle (see the description from Hunter’s Rest) with a few oddities where they have lots of different jumps. “Hunt Cup” I have always believed refers to the race and its corresponding prize. So you win TheMaryland Hunt Cup, which is a Timber race.

In the UK they have hurdle races at race tracks regularly: http://www.racingexplained.co.uk/jum…a-hurdle-race/ and they call races like the Grand National “Steeplechasing”: http://www.racingexplained.co.uk/jum…-steeplechase/ However I’ve noticed (in the little bit I check out European racing) that they often just refer to the race meet by name, and by certain big races.

Yes, Gumtrees’ correct, I am an actively riding over jumps. Rode sanctioned races over hurdles and timber in 2017, and have ridden over timber at the Manor, Grand National, and MD Hunt Cup. Rode my first sanctioned winner over hurdles this year. If there is anything you’d like to know from a rider’s perspective, just ask! :slight_smile:

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Wow, @Bug Boy ! How cool and fascinating! I may PM you with more questions but I may ask a couple in public just in case anyone else in the thread is interested (since it sounds like some people might be).

Are there many racing barns solely devoted to jump racing? Is it difficult for the barns to stay in business because it seems like such a niche sport (forgive me if this is a dumb, outsider’s perspective).

What do people look for in a horse that races over timber in terms of his brain, athleticism, and background? Are most timber horses ex-racehorses who didn’t work out on the flat? (And also any insight about the different types of horses for the different types of jump races discussed by @Hunter’s Rest )?

What is a typical training schedule/day for a horse and a rider? Not just before a race but also during the off-season?

Again apologies in advance for any ignorance! And congrats on your first sanctioned winner!

Feel free to chime in with questions, anyone else in the thread, or comments!

There are many ‘barns’ devoted chiefly to jump racing, but 99.999% of those also do foxhunters (directly linked to steeplechasing - look up 1752 St. Albans/St. Buttevant for ‘the story’) and/or flat racing.
Most stables like this ^^ aren’t working it as ‘a business’ per se, and losing money is part of the game. There are the few like Rowdy Irishman that keep ‘the dream’ alive of making it big with a fairly random horse, but most are owned-operated by rich patrons (for lack of a better term - that polo word works nicely) who employ talented, skilled and highly experienced horsemen to run the operations
You don’t look for a horse to run over timber - they just appear. As I said, sincerely, most jumpers have run on the flat, and when they’re out of conditions, they (sometimes) turn to jumping. You’d of course want a nice shoulder, good bone, short cannons for soundness (jump horses can and do run well into their teens, with some Hunt Cup winners at age 15), relatively low set hocks, etc. but that’s all part and parcel for any talented racehorse.
Many jump horses (you’ve GOT to stop thinking of it as ‘timber horses’ - that’s a thing, but it’s not how one views steeplechasing, at all) were not very good on the flat, but the good ones were good. You used to be able to win a race with a fleet foxhunter (see St. Albans/1752) but those days are long gone. You better have some pedigree and speed to win on today’s US circuit.
There really isn’t a ‘type’ you can identify for hurdles/timber/flat, b/c good conformation=good conformation, though if you must, you’d think of a timber horse as a bit bigger (not always) and a bit older (not always), maybe a bit more quarters but, sincerely, I defy you to look at John’s Call (G1 sw on the flat) vs. Saluter (timber champion) vs. Skip Away (hurdle champion) and identify any particular conformation quirk that made them tops of their venue.
Training schedule is much like the flat track - coming from ‘time off’, couple weeks jogging, couple weeks shorter cantering, several weeks 2 miles galloping a good lick - around 400-450 mpm. After that add in 1/2 mile 2 minute lick work (2 minute mile - approx 800 mpm), day off, then gallop another week, add another work, a tad longer, etc. with 4-5 works leading up to a race.
Many trainers use training flat races at the jump meets (in the US) or bumpers (UK) as ‘works’ which pretty much count as 2 home-works, and keep the miles off the horse’s legs while tightening them for their jump races.
Timber horses do NOT run over hurdles as ‘prep’ races when running over timber. A few of the cross-country racehorses run primarily over timber but add maybe a point to point hurdle start to remind the horse of the brushing-through jumping style for their varied cross country racing.
99.99999% of jump horses train ‘on the farm’, so for variation, add in a hack day or a hunting day or a roadwork day or a flatwork day (in the arena, just like a sport horse), and an occasional walking day if needed due to weather or whatever.
A typical ‘day’ would be perhaps morning turnout after breakfast while stalls are done, morning gallop or work or exercise or whatever, bath/hotwalk if needed (though several trainers I worked for simply ‘walked the horse home’ from the on-farm training track (a good half mile), hosed them off (cold water all seasons) and chucked them back out in the pasture to finish cooling down.) (And before you gasp, two of them were Eclipse winners … :slight_smile:
Horses will often go back out in the paddock or pasture the balance of the day; some come in at night, others don’t. My biggest influence trainers never kept horses inside; I pattern my own (miniscule and occasional) jump training after that - and I’ve trained 4 Va, circuit overall champions, so I guess it works pretty well … )
As to a ‘rider’, they get on horses to gallop in the mornings, school horses over fences (young horses get more work over jumps, naturally; veterans often just get 1-2 tuneups before they run first time that season; zero after they’re running that year.) Most riders do babies in the afternoons or something else in the horse business - I suppose some of the top jockeys only get on horses in the morning and don’t have to do young horses or exercise hunters in the afternoons but I’d say a majority percentage of ‘riders’ do something else at least part of the rest of the day.
Off season, they’re 99.9999999 turned out, as in, muddy and fuzzy and messy and outside 24-7 almost always with buddies,

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@Hunter’s Rest Wow, thank you for the overview, that was fascinating! Again, I’m sorry if I don’t always use the correct terminology. And I love your description of them as “muddy and fuzzy” during the off-season!

Becher’s Brook and the Canal Turn are two of the most famous (or infamous) jumps in the Grand National. If you Google them you will see really cool (as in chilling!) photos of them, as well as Valentine’s, The Chair, and The Foinavon Fence. The last was named for Foinavon, a 100-1 longshot who won in 1967. Becher’s was named for Captain Becher, who fell there in the first official Grand National and took shelter in the brook to avoid injury.

The Grand National is a steeplechase, as opposed to a hurdle race. If you Google Grand National Fences you can learn about them and the materials they’re made of.

Jump races in England, including steeplechases and hurdle races, are National Hunt races. There is a race in England called the Royal Hunt Cup, but it is a flat race only one mile long.

RPM, thanks :slight_smile:

I had Googled Grand National but couldn’t find anything definite on what “type” of over fences. Some of the fences, like Becher’s Brook, I remember from National Velvet :slight_smile: I’ll have to pay more attention to the coverage next April.

Watching whatever race it was a few weeks ago was definitely a :eek: as they jumped some of those bigger jumps :wink: