To bite my tongue or not...?

[CHT]

Friend: “Dobbin was bucking on the trails again today. I am not enjoying riding him much”
You: “Dobbin might benefit from being able to exercise himself in a paddock or field on the days you cannot ride. He is likely bored being stuck in a small space”
Friend: “Dobbin was spooking and reacting to every little thing”
You: “Dobbin might benefit from being turned out with friends so he learns to relax - there is a nice barn near you that might really help”
Friend: “…”
You: “I really value your friendship, but the issues you are having with Dobbin make me worry about your safety. I very much think a new board situation would be helpful for you so you can start to enjoy your horse”.

After that, you can answer any further conversations of the like with: “We have already discussed the issues you are having with your horse before. You know what I think would help.” and then change the subject.

[secuono]

@S1969

I’d be blunt. Although I wouldn’t say “terrible and abusive” because it’s not abusive, really. It’s just highly unnatural. Like keeping a dog in a small kennel 24/7. Maybe use that comparison. Does she have a dog?

But that is abusive and neglect. No point in having a dog if it’s just tossed in a small kennel & rarely taken out. No point in having a horse if it’s in an even smaller pen, relative to body size, & rarely taken out + made to carry a rider. It’s probably unfit to carry anyone if it’s never properly worked. That and the smaller pen(stall) make it worse than the dog in a small kennel.

OP, you have two options.
Either ignore everything horse related with this person & move on.
Or risk loosing this person & be bold. Tell her exactly how you feel, get everything off your chest. If they don’t accept it, you need to move on.

[Nezzy]

OP, i think we need to advocate for the horses that we feel are unhappy. Maybe talk to your friend and explain that a horse that is turned out often, can release all that energy and stress from being inside. I personally have my horse on pasture board with a shelter, and he is very well behaved and very healthy.

[JenEM]

Are you in an area where turnout is not the norm? Because here in the mid-Atlantic, it would be very very odd to see a barn, even a high-end fancy one, with zero turnout. (Even FEI-level dressage horses I know go out, even if it’s just in a private paddock.) Also very odd to see a fancy one with a lot of amenities not have some kind of program requirement that the horse be getting a set number of lessons/training rides/etc each week/month–even at mid-level facilities around here that’s fairly standard. Honestly, maybe encouraging her into somewhere that requires at least some type of training program so the horse is at least getting some exercise if she won’t turn it out, would be easier than convincing her on the turnout issue. And then maybe the trainer can take over the turnout battle

IMHO, your two options are to cut yourself out of this situation entirely, or to be blunt with her and tell her that turnout is part of good care.

[Equkelly]

Turnout is actually pretty common in this area but to my disgust there’s still lots of boarding facilities with fancy amenities willing to collect “full care” checks if all they have to do is keep horses in tiny pens/ stalls and chuck a few flakes of hay in twice a day.

The other piece of this dilemma is that there is A trainer in this equation where the horse is now. She doesn’t actually lesson with this trainer very much because this trainer is a specific discipline that my friend has no interest in and just wants to trail ride. But this is the trainer not turning the horse out. She does trust his opinion so I’m thinking this is why she thinks it’s ok. But this trainer also gives her terrible advice. He sold her a saddle that doesn’t fit, a trailer that her horse doesn’t fit in, and the kicker? He’s telling her it’s a good idea to BREED this horse… Yea the horse that she currently can’t ride. Of course he thinks this is a good idea because then she’d have to pay for training.

But I think she’s kind of starting to see through that trainer/ BO’a antics which is why she’s wanting to move her horse again. She’s just been very misled about her animals needs so I’m afraid she’s going to run right to another terrible option.

But thanks everyone, you guys have really good points and I appreciate he input.

[shiloh]

Another vote for let it go. You have done everything you can short of cracking this woman’s head open and shoving the info in. These are all HER decisions. About HER horse. And yes 7,8,9,10 barns…it’s all her.

I have dealt with people like this and in the end, it’s on them. I used to board with a woman that that went thru horses like they were potato chips. She would tell the sellers she was an experienced horsewoman, would buy these animals that were way out of her league and shut them in their new stalls and never turn them out. They would go nuts, then she wouldn’t ride them because now they were too “dangerous.” Lather, rinse, repeat. Over and over. The last horse she bought was an Arabian English Pleasure show horse that she brought to the barn, shut him in, and never returned. 30 days later he was ricocheting around his stall and was completely nuts. Those poor horses…but there was nothing any of us could do. She wouldn’t listen. Not now, not then, not ever.

Don’t make yourself crazy - it really isn’t your problem. People like her are like alcoholics and drug addicts, they have to be ready to accept those decisions and make them.

[LilRanger]

“I wouldn’t say I’ve told her this… I tiptoe around things subtly but I’m too scared to sit her down and be like”

This makes me think that you already know nothing you tell her will stick. And now she is getting potentially mislead by a trainer. Well, you can be there to help her pick up the pieces.

And in my experience, repeating something constantly does get through eventually. Especially if it’s lwhat other posters have said: when she complains about Dobbin, you repeat yourself ad nauseum, but without rancor.

[PamnReba]

Maybe now that’s she starting to look sideways at the trainer, it’s the right time to say, “You know, he’s not really giving you good guidance right now, so let’s try something different. Let’s give your guy some turn out and see if he doesn’t behave better after getting to blow off some steam,” or something along those lines. Just take advantage of her wavering faith to interject an option.

I’m in the still try to help her camp, but acknowledge at some point you’ll have to let it go if you keep hitting a brick wall. I just think you still have opportunities to be a bit more direct.

[candyappy]

Decades ago when I boarded it was a very urban area so horses had no turn out. Owners were responsible to either come out and ride, have someone ride or let horse out into the arena for a bit if they couldn’t or take their chances if they were a weekend warrior.

It would be so simple to just arrange to have someone turn the horse out for some self exercise for 30 minutes during the week, but sadly there are many owners who are clueless and continue to be despite our gentle attempts to educate them.

Let her live and learn and hopefully after a decent fall she may change her tune. I made enough money most months that I owed no board on my 2 horses by riding and/ or turning out horses for the weekend warriors during the week.

[SusanO]

On top of everything else behavior wise I would worry that the horse would start to have impactions/ colic for the lack of movement on a regular basis. BUT if you have said your piece and she doesn’t listen I would let it go.

I have a friend with a horse with a nasty temperament that has her number ( and yes he gets lots of turnout - probably 24/7). He has kicked her and bitten her several times. He hasn’t put her in the hospital. Yet. So all I can do is tell her that I personally will not feed or own a horse like that. First offense and he is gone. Mine are certainly not perfect and need reminders of who is in charge. And that she needs to treat him as a stallion and never turn her back on him and she needs help with him. She doesn’t want to do that. So I have backed off. I have said my piece. She knows how I feel . I cannot tell her what to do. I am not going to stress any more over this. I am not going to find her trainers - she doesn’t want to spend the money. That is her decision. And she has to live with the consequences. So even though this bothers you - you cannot control her. She has to come to her own conclusions.

[Equkelly]

Just an update: We had drinks tonight and it went ok. I told I thought leaving her current barn was a good choice and that I’m happy to help her look around. She told me the options she’s looking at and some of them do have minimal turnout but for the most part she’s looking for the same setup she has now. I asked her why she won’t consider a pasture situation or something where her horse can live with buddies and she said it’s because her horse gets too buddy sour and it’s important to her that the horse gets fed oats and supplements so that’s why the horse has to be isolated… sighs.

I did tell her that IMO, if she’s not going to ride/ exercise it, turnout needs to be a priority in next boarding arrangement. She acted like she agreed but I have a feeling it’s not sinking in. At least I tried. Her big thing is that she wants to “get what she’s paying for” which is why I tried to explain to her that you’re not necessarily paying for better care at those big training barns, you’re paying for access to big name trainers and access to a really nice facility. A lower key/ private place would fit her and her horse’s needs perfectly but I’m getting the sense that she believes “bigger = better”.

Oh well, I tried. Thanks everyone for the advice. She may very well stumble into a place that just happens to do turnout… I don’t think she’d avoid it, but she’s definitely not looking for it if that makes any sense.

[MLOaks]

That makes sense, EquKelly. Sounds like you really did try your best. Getting away from that “trainer” would be good. I hope it works out for the horse (and your friend).

[Guyot]

I’ve skimmed thru so if someone else already mentioned it, sorry for the repeat.

I would not try to change what she wants and views as the type of barn she picks, I would try to enhance it. Money and looks are what are driving her choices in boarding barns.

Well if she’s only riding once or twice a month she should capitalize on what she’s already paying for; a training facility. Take advantage of ALL the benefits and get her horse into a program.

It’s a gym membership where she gets all the benefits plus a Personal gym locker but She not using the pool or the weight room or the sauna…

Point out to her what services she is leaving on the table that may enhance her own barn experience. You will need to make this about her… you will need to sell her on why this will benefit her.

Sounds to me like she needs to have a experience with her horse that creates a picture (that is in her head) of how she wants to be seen as a horse owner. Make her view larger to include training and you will make this horses situation that much better.

Trying to get her to move to a low key and probably better horse situation is coming across to her to “save” money way of horse management. So help her spend more, stimulate the horse industry and help the horse. Same result but different path then you would take, but one probably more palatable to her.

Best of luck…

[Equkelly]

@Guyot

I’ve skimmed thru so if someone else already mentioned it, sorry for the repeat.

I would not try to change what she wants and views as the type of barn she picks, I would try to enhance it. Money and looks are what are driving her choices in boarding barns.

Well if she’s only riding once or twice a month she should capitalize on what she’s already paying for; a training facility. Take advantage of ALL the benefits and get her horse into a program.

It’s a gym membership where she gets all the benefits plus a Personal gym locker but She not using the pool or the weight room or the sauna…

Point out to her what services she is leaving on the table that may enhance her own barn experience. You will need to make this about her… you will need to sell her on why this will benefit her.

Sounds to me like she needs to have a experience with her horse that creates a picture (that is in her head) of how she wants to be seen as a horse owner. Make her view larger to include training and you will make this horses situation that much better.

Trying to get her to move to a low key and probably better horse situation is coming across to her to “save” money way of horse management. So help her spend more, stimulate the horse industry and help the horse. Same result but different path then you would take, but one probably more palatable to her.

Best of luck…

I’ve definitely tried that angle as well but she really has no interest in training or lessons. She hates riding in an arena and thinks it’s boring to “just ride around in circles”. Which is fine and lots of people are like that but those people don’t usually park their horse in stall/ tiny paddock and pull it out once a month.

[Nezzy]

thanks for trying. i feel bad for the unhappy horse, but maybe she will figure it out.

[2DogsFarm]

@Equkelly

I’ve definitely tried that angle as well but she really has no interest in training or lessons. She hates riding in an arena and thinks it’s boring to “just ride around in circles”. Which is fine and lots of people are like that but those people don’t usually park their horse in stall/ tiny paddock and pull it out once a month.

So she prefers getting bucked off to potentially learning how to NOT get bucked off?
Does she think her expertise at riding outside an arena is good enough to avoid being bucked off?
If so, how does she account for her lack of pleasant trail rides?
Any possibility she can get a lesson while riding on trails?

I see from your post #51 that it looks like she will be moving again.
Good Luck, as someone’s sig on here says: You Can’t Fix Stupid

[Equestrian24]

If she says her horse has buddy sour issues while turned out, could you suggest to her that a trainer could help her with this? There are also barns that feed and give supplements to pasture boarders (in fact, my family owns a strictly pasture board trail riding/boarding facility and brings the horses in to feed and will give supplements at the owner’s request; I’m not sure how common this situation is in other areas, but it may be something to look into).

Also, I rode with a trainer for awhile who did lessons out on the trails as well, if that’s what she’s more interested in. However, I think most (including the one I rode with) will work on the basics as well as groundwork in the ring first, but maybe if she found lessons from someone who could take her out onto the trails, she’d be more open to the idea of lessons. But, she’ll have to realize that not everything about riding and horsemanship is fun and sometimes you have to do some “boring” stuff in order to become a good horseman/woman, and it may be a few lessons before she graduates out onto the trail. She will have to be willing to give it a fair chance before she decides she doesn’t like it.

[Ruth0552]

Well, she doesn’t have to pay for “training” she needs to pay for her horse to be exercised or turned out if she isn’t going to do it herself. Like walking a dog. If you aren’t going to walk your dog, then you pay someone to come walk it. I think a vet or a different professional making this point to her will go far further. I’m not sure there’s anything else you can do. You tried, and she’s being dense. I know you said this is a pretty close friend. I would pretty frustrated if I were you. I guess I’d just try to ignore the topic for a while, until the next time she complains about her horse being full of it. Then you can tell her you already told her the problem, in your opinion, but maybe she should ask her vet.

[chai]

What a shame. If she continues on this path, she could wind up getting hurt and the horse could be unfairly labeled as a danger, even though she has set him up for failure.
If she refuses to listen to you or any of the professionals/barn owners, there isn’t much you can do. Perhaps give her the United States Pony Club’s ‘D’ Manual as a place to get started and tell her to read it…

[Equkelly]

@2DogsFarm

So she prefers getting bucked off to potentially learning how to NOT get bucked off?
Does she think her expertise at riding outside an arena is good enough to avoid being bucked off?
If so, how does she account for her lack of pleasant trail rides?
Any possibility she can get a lesson while riding on trails?

I see from your post #51 that it looks like she will be moving again.
Good Luck, as someone’s sig on here says: You Can’t Fix Stupid

To her, the bucking/ spooking issues aren’t a result of her lack of experience or training. It’s just something that happens