I honestly don’t think it’s occurred to her that buddy sourness is a training issue. I think she just sees it as a fact of life and not something that can be worked on.
1 Like
It’s not that she won’t listen to professionals I think the problem is that she IS but the “professionals” she’s worked with have done her a huge disservice. The first one she worked with sold her the horse knowing she was a beginner. When she bought the horse it was also parked in a stall and not turned out as if it was a large hamster so why would she do differently? Then the one that she’s at now keeps telling her to breed this mare knowing full well this girl does not have the experience to be starting a baby. He probably just wants the check for training board.
You don’t have to turn out with other horses, private turnout with other horses around is fine for most horses, many even prefer it, as they don’t have to fight over resources like water, feed and best places to stand quietly when desired.
“Company” to a horse doesn’t necessarily mean being in the same space and with other horses accessible to be friends or enemies with.
If her preference is that he gets individual attention and feed, turnout can still be arranged.
The problem right now is the standing too long confined to a stall and no one exercising horse but a few rare times a month.
Try that approach, may work better than a bigger change to herd turnout, which she has reasons not to agree to.
3 Likes
I probably would back away from the friend a bit. Don’t offer help when she asks, but advise her to ask a trainer or whatever. It’s too much stress on you, and she isn’t even taking you seriously.
1 Like
Surely there are barns between the no turnout type she’s chosen and your pasture board places. The norm around here is in at night out during the day (sometimes reversed in summer).
5 Likes
All the big boarding barns around here that do that would be way out of her price range. There’s plenty of smaller places that would do that, but she doesn’t want some place like that.
going on the crazy train!!! NO one is doing anything abusive to a horse, or not paying their bills, or not loving their animal, or not making choices for their handling/daily care as they see fit…what the heck??? C’mon, Equkelly…please just once. tell us what you want to achieve that is realistic. Can you afford to offer money to her to switch to your approved methods, and locations?OMG. this person wants what she wants. You don’t agree. ok. done!!! You’d NEVER put up with this in reverse. Link your friend to this discussion …it has all your concerns, distaste, seems like ALL that you don’t want to say to her. Its really not fair, is it.
3 Likes
I’ve ignored you because you seem to be pretty delusional. It is, in my opinion, abuse to keep your horse in a tiny stall/ paddock with no exercise 24/7. You can call it abuse, you can call it neglect, you can call it just bad horsemanship whatever… it’s not good and I think most people would agree with at least that.
You obviously don’t agree. Cool. You’ve made your point clear, I don’t agree with you and feel bad for your horses if you think that care is acceptable.
I think one of the things that we get wrong in the horse world is that we accept things just because they are “normal” and not because they are “right”. Also the thing about any type of abuse is that the abusers usually never understand their actions are abusive. Also it’s such a fallacious juvenile argument to say that just because a horse is not starving and abandoned that means it’s not abusive. There’s always going to be horses in worse situations. But comparing situations doesn’t make the situation we’re talking about any better.
5 Likes
OH PLEASE. don’t include ME in your judgement. I NEVER said limited turnout was MY WAY. Dont you EVER come after me about how my horses are cared for. I’m saying you’re continuing on a course attacking a SUPPOSED FRIEND of yours for not agreeing with YOUR way. that was it. I’m delusional? Sweetie you don’t even know me. (Bless your heart) I’m saying STOP this course of blasting your friend for choosing another way, or fricking tell her what you’re telling all of us. MAN UP. JUST LINK HER TO THE POST YOU"VE SPENT DAYS ON ABOUT HER your issues will all be expressed.
People want what they want. “Nothing stranger than folk”
I have a acquaintance who does not feed more than a flake of hay a day and limits water intake while horses are inside. She turns out 6 hours a day. The horse are allowed to drink their fill outside but dry lots only, no hay. The reason for this crazy horse care technique? Makes her stalls a breeze to clean and she has an OCD fear of a hay belly.
Her horses crib, weave and worse. Colic runs rampant. I gently told her my opinion and that’s why she has so many problems. Her answer was that’s why she has mortality insurance. We had the same vet, he will no longer go out, he is “overbooked” whenever she calls. Is it abusive? Maybe? But the horses look fine, weights are good. Feed on premises, barn clean, some water in stalls. All the care boxes checked. Would my horse go there? NO!
Do I speak to her in polite company? Yes
Did I let her borrow banamine? Of course
We agree to disagree on horse care, I don’t bring it up. She doesn’t either. We are friendly and polite and she is otherwise a very nice person who I do business with other than horses.
Your friend wants what she wants, but I would politely tell her your opinion and if she does not agree, then ask if" you agree to disagree". Then you have every right to say " you know my feelings on this matter" and change the subject. If that offends her, there are other friends.
4 Likes
Wow! Just saw this when I was posting earlier. We agree on care principles. But…to say that a horse with no turnout is abused would be to include the entire racing industry, show horse industry, horses in large cities and millions more. Horses thrive in all of these industries, perform and often grace the covers of the magazine who hosts this forum. Yes, the previous mentioned horses are exercised but not that at their leisure. This is often more stressful than being left in the stall. The fact that my guys live out 24/7 in their paddock paradise is my care ethic. Many horses/owners do not have that priveledge. I am very sorry your friend has a non turnout care regime. Sadly, no matter what we would like, horses are owned, they are livestock. So just like the high performance dog that spends 12 hours a day in a crate, this poor horse has a undesirable life. Only the owner change this, I cannot, you cannot.
4 Likes
I get that and I have no plans to say anything else to her and it’s not something that I would ruin a friendship over.
But again, just because those conditions are normal doesn’t mean they’re right. If you want to treat your animal like that you should get a guinea pig and not a horse.
2 Likes
Op, seriously, you got to let this go. She is going to do what she is going to do no matter what you (or anyone else) thinks. She can do what she wants with HER horses and there is nothing you can do to change that. Maybe one day she will see the light but that is up to her. Not you. She has to get there by herself. I think everyone here understands your frustration but there is really nothing you can do.
4 Likes
For the sake of the horse, and because your friend obviously doesn’t know and better (and for some reason can’t INTUIT the benefits of not being locked up in a box 24/7…),say your piece.
Say it once, say it clearly, and say it without all that beating around the bush, sidestepping, hinting, alluding, etc.
“Yo, I honestly think your issue is that the horse does not get enough excercise. Horses need turnout. And if you’re not going to ride it more than twice a month, pay someone else to get it ridden more often.”
Then, if she still won’t listen, walk away.
It is completely possible to just walk away and never trouble yourself with this individual again.
6 Likes
It is kinda becoming clear. this ISN’T a person to say her concerns ‘and walk away’… or even say her concerns. or walk away. EVER. ‘This is the song that never ends…’
4 Likes
Agreed! Sometimes people just don’t get it. To not spay and nueter makes me NUTS! Calf roping bothers me, Do not get me started about big game hunting…We all have our causes but all I can say is pick your battles then rule your kingdom and creatures your own way.
5 Likes
I think it says more about you than it does about me that me that you’re so defensive over a person you don’t know and a horse you also don’t know…
Also this post was NEVER “how can I get my friend to do things my way.” If you scroll up the top of your screen, you’ll notice the title is “to bite my tongue or not”. My original plan was to bite my tongue and that’s mostly what I’ve decided to do. I’m not bringing it up again because I know it’s not going to sink in. It’s frustrating but not the end of the world and I’m not losing sleep over it. And I’m not going to stop being friends with this person.
Also, the idea that horses need some combo of exercise and or turnout should not offend you this much. That’s common sense and backed pretty much universally by research and almost all vets. It’s not something I just came up with on my own.
Perhaps you are insecure about your own management practices and that’s why you’re so heated? In any case, good luck with whatever’s going on with you. I can’t help you.
5 Likes
ah…the angry flip…don’t attack others because they don’t agree with you. Most of us on here have said let it go, but you won’t. So I guess you’re going to do what you’re going to do, right? I give up…not going to give myself a headache and you shouldn’t either, banging your head against a wall.
3 Likes
Are you even reading the posts? I did let it go.
2 Likes
THIS!!
2 Likes
