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To SELL or NOT to sell

I feel sorry for this little QH. He’s probably been used as a piece of athletic equipment his entire life, and been sold so many times he’s mentally in “survival” mode. I’ve owned several like this, and they DO take a long time to come out of their shell. He may also just not be an extrovert; some of them take considerable subtlety to “read.”

But right now I think he’s a far better choice for a person coming off of serious injuries than a wild & wicked warmblood who will be not only physically challenging, but possibly intimidating as well. I think the “bad boyfriends” analogy is apt; do you possibly have a need to “dominate” powerful forces? Are you getting self-empowerment through that? Why?

In choosing horses, “know thyself” is the most important part, and regrettably the part few people pay enough attention to. They see themselves on the Black Stallion, not Mr. Nice Guy, but the truth is that about 70% of all adult-ammies and pleasure riders NEED the guy you have right now. “Passion” can put you in the ICU and when you’ve owned a few horses like THAT (and I had 2 back-to-back), you learn to appreciate guys like yours.

Try being the person HE needs for awhile and see how it works out. We have been wired by the commerce-driven culture of instant gratification to be able to get whatever we want instantly, “off the shelf.” But that’s not the way life with horses works. Sometimes it takes YEARS . . .

If you feel the horse is safe, and can do what you want to do, those are some HUGE steps up over what it sounds like you were riding before.

You may also wish to ask why you ride to begin with.

Great advice, LE. Sometimes it’s not “all about you.” I had a qh like this, very reserved, not cuddly at all, but going over a tricky, solid outside course jump where he got over it by jumping straight up like a deer, I ended up on his neck. I could just hear his sigh of exasperation as he bounded up in a circular move like a merry=go round horse, which deposited me right back in the saddle. We even won second place.

I learned to love that horse for sure! Give your horse a chance…

You’ve received a ton of sage advice. I have several horses which I keep at home. To all of them I am the food lady; but, I have a connection with all of them. My bond with each one has been dictated by how much I have or do work with them. The babies are probably the best example. I am actually one who doesn’t go head over heels stupid over a cute fuzzy baby. From day one I knew who had better this or that, which one looked to be better suited for dressage, driving, or trail but there’s far more to a horse than utilitarian (hobby) purposes. It has been doing the ground work that has allowed me to get to know their personalities, understand what makes them tick, and then be able to see where their strengths really lie. The whole process of being integral to their learning and achievements as basic as cleaning out their feet (and making sure they’re polite about it), loading on the trailer and standing quietly, etc may seem mundane but such things really do help build a relationship.

My stallion who was everything I wanted him to be from the get go took at least 2 years for me to really develop that close connection and I’m the one who backed, started and continued to be his sole rider. The greatest challenge to creating that bond has been the fact that I have had several others to ride…I reduced that number so that I could give him more of my undivided attention. Now there is little he won’t do for me.

It sounds like the horse in question is already pretty well trained but in all honesty training never stops. There is always something new or something that can be done even better which gives multiple opportunities to work with him. It’s defining what you want out of the relationship and then working for it that I think is missing here. Some ‘instagram’ relationships or connections exist but the really strong ones usually require some interactive effort and more than just brushing, feeding and talking to them (again I’m speaking as the queen food lady of this establishment). Still I will admit that there have been horses I simply haven’t bonded with and have sold on. I usually give myself a minimum of a year to come to that conclusion but it’s a year of me riding and training them regularly.

He sounds like a really nice horse that would be welcome in most barns. Good luck with your decision.

He sounds like a really awesome horse. It shouldn’t be hard to find him a great home, if you decide to sell him. Maybe someone else will better appreciate his good qualities.

My horse is kind of an ass, to be honest. I have had him for over three years and I would not say we have “bonded”. As a matter of fact, I think he “likes” everyone else more than me, since I am the one who actually makes him work and disciplines him–he is the type that wants his own way. I would prefer if he was friendlier, but I wouldn’t sell him for this reason alone (not that anyone would want him lol!). But that’s just me–he does his job and is good at shows so I can live with his “quirks”.

So, another vote for keep him. Sometimes the horse you want and the horse you need are 2 different creatures. I am currently owned by a lovely QH mare who I hated 7 ways to Sunday when I first started working with her. I am used to big strided loose moving TB and WBx types, so the (at the time) introverted mare that was small, slightly plain and not at all flashy was very tough to want to connect too. We were also surrounded by flashy fancy horses and it is hard not to look at them and say thats what I want.
After about 2 years of working with said mare, she grew on me like a fungus, she is challenging, but safely so, my riding has improved dramatically with her due to not having to be on the defense and always waiting for the next stupid move. She may move like a sewing machine at times, but she can cart my 5 year old around never taking a bad step and then make me do it right when I ride.
Now when I look at all those flashy beasts, that need lunging or this supplement or that just to make them slightly workable, I appreciate and love being able to get on and go.

I got my last QH mare when she was 5. Prior to that she had been in a pasture until 4 and then had 3 owners over a year period. When I got her she had ulcers and trust issues. I have now had her for two years in March. She can be stoic and slow to trust but we have made a lot of progress.

She is very different from my other two QHs which I got when they were 2 year olds but it is so rewarding making progress with her in the trust department. She is not an in your pocket horse like the other two but she really is a great horse.

I would not give up on her yet. Spend plenty of non-work time and treat time with her and she will come around!

[QUOTE=Countrywood;7421424]
“You can buy a horse, but you can’t buy a relationship.” ( a barn mantra)

You are going to have build a relationship with this horse. And if you do, it will create a bond that will last. Maybe that is your challenge and why this horse came into your life.

I honestly believe this sums it up :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=flatnfabulous;7421565]
So, another vote for keep him. Sometimes the horse you want and the horse you need are 2 different creatures. I am currently owned by a lovely QH mare who I hated 7 ways to Sunday when I first started working with her. I am used to big strided loose moving TB and WBx types, so the (at the time) introverted mare that was small, slightly plain and not at all flashy was very tough to want to connect too. We were also surrounded by flashy fancy horses and it is hard not to look at them and say thats what I want.

EXACTLY HOW I FEEL !!! and i feel so guilty for looking at them and go: i kind of miss that, i know how those awesome flying lead changes feel and the passage steps…but then those big beast fly up in the case when the UPS guy shows up and my little QH is like: yall stupid :cool: being cool as a cucumber <---- and this is why i bought him, i was tired and i honestly think, as hard as it is, he might just will make me a better horse person,a better rider.

[QUOTE=flatnfabulous;7421565]
So, another vote for keep him. Sometimes the horse you want and the horse you need are 2 different creatures. I am currently owned by a lovely QH mare who I hated 7 ways to Sunday when I first started working with her. I am used to big strided loose moving TB and WBx types, so the (at the time) introverted mare that was small, slightly plain and not at all flashy was very tough to want to connect too. We were also surrounded by flashy fancy horses and it is hard not to look at them and say thats what I want.

EXACTLY HOW I FEEL !!! and i feel so guilty for looking at them and go: i kind of miss that, i know how those awesome flying lead changes feel and the passage steps…but then those big beast fly up in the case when the UPS guy shows up and my little QH is like: yall stupid :cool: being cool as a cucumber <---- and this is why i bought him, i was tired and i honestly think, as hard as it is, he might just will make me a better horse person,a better rider.

Lady E: Thank you for your honesty :slight_smile: I appreciate the sound advice. He is the best for coming back from the injury and I truly dont want or need a crazy WB in my life anymore.

I rode for my years upper level dressage ( back home in germany) and was used to a: make the horse do what he needs to do approach within the facet of classical training including in hand work.
HOWEVER: THIS IS NOT WORKING WITH THIS HORSE, now basically i feel like a fish out of the water not knowing what else to do because my knowledge is all the dressage stuff, the in hand work and working with horses with temper tantrums.

From what I was told, he was used as an athletic equipment:
born on a very well know performance ranch, sold at 2
sold again and again and again. The last 3 owner had him at trainers and dumped him back into the pastures, the very last owner was 14 year old that injured him badly with a high port bit. He has a low palette, small mouth, fat tongue and the Vet at the purchase exam showed me the raw spots on his palette - i was horrified.

With him i feel like i’m relearning horsemanship all over again. Its very humbling.

The reason for the trainer is that she is very very conservative in her approach of training, never a harsh pull but consistency, he learned contact within the last 3 month where understandably he was horrified before etc.

She only rides him because i’m not cleared for riding. My vertebrates are still not healed, reason it hurt pretty bad as he jumped and i wasn’t prepared. ( my mistake i should have never got on him)

as i bought him, he has NO IDEA what treats are. Refused carrots,apples and anything out of my hand. he is now very food motivated :eek: lol clicker training and TT looks like a good fit. I like CA but it might be to harsh on him, he is very sensitive ( not in spooky ) introvert, slow,steady with him seems to work better…he is an ASK ME WITH RESPECT Horse vs a tell him what to do ( which was the only horses i ever had) Learning curve for me.

I appreciate all of your advice. it puts things into perspective.
THANK YOU ALL SO VERY MUCH :smiley: keep your ideas coming on how i can help this guy. I think i will print this out and remind myself of all the sound advice you guys give me when i get discouraged :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=famjack02;7421593]

[QUOTE=Countrywood;7421424]“You can buy a horse, but you can’t buy a relationship.” ( a barn mantra)

You are going to have build a relationship with this horse. And if you do, it will create a bond that will last. Maybe that is your challenge and why this horse came into your life.

I honestly believe this sums it up :)[/QUOTE]

Oh, but you can too, I have a horse right now that I looked high and low for just for that quality.
He had a relationship always with good people, that treated him fair and respected him, so right off he was like that with me also.
Those horses with the temperament to want to work with you and the training and life experiences that such is a great way to live for a horse, without ever needing to resent humans for any reason, those are very, very hard to find.

If you can’t find one of those, you just have to take the time to teach them just that, understanding that their nature and past experiences may or are going to interfere with that at times.

I would not pass over or dismiss a good horse just because he is not already trained to be that kind of horse you want, but give him a chance first.

Maybe you already have and it is just not going to be a good enough fit, or he may surprise you and be one with a bit more time.

I’m in the don’t sell him just yet camp. As others have pointed out, you two need some quality time together and I don’t mean hanging out with him while grazing. If you have access to a round pen, work with him there and even have some fun teaching him some basic tricks. I used a clicker when working with my horse and it was great!

Eight owners in six years is a lot. That horse doesn’t know how to bond with a human because he never had time to. In a sense, he reminds me of my horse because I have no idea what her life was like before she came to me and in the beginning, I had a difficult time bonding with her and thought she was really aloof. I wasn’t feeling connected and even though I wasn’t going to sell her, for a while I felt a real sense of disappointment.

I worked with her on the ground for six months before I even rode her. When I finally started taking lessons, the trainer (without knowing our background) remarked how my horse was really in tune with me and she said it looked like this horse was bonding with a person for the first time.

Fast forward to now, and my horse and I have a blast together. When I go to the pasture to get her, I don’t even have to call to her. As soon as she sees me she comes to me. She and I have had some great and not so great adventures together, but I love being around her.

So, hang in there and have some fun on the ground. Then come back and let us know how things are going!

142nd vote for keeping him, I an owned by my 1st QH & while he has 0.00% personalaty side by side with the other horses Ive owned he also doesnt always seem to LIKE me even now then he nickers at me when I visit :D. I actually HATED this horse this time last year then we just clicked somehow last spring and you couldnt pay me enough to sell him now, youve not been his human much (not ur fault) & hes not your horse (that is your fault-JS–keep working with him) but ride & do things together until you click, it will happen once you learn what he can do for you & he learns you. A horse that takes care of your butt is worth a lot even if their personalaty is like warm milk, I know that for a fact cause mine takes care of me on trails & gets me home.

[QUOTE=famjack02;7421661]
Lady E: Thank you for your honesty :slight_smile: I appreciate the sound advice. He is the best for coming back from the injury and I truly dont want or need a crazy WB in my life anymore.

I rode for my years upper level dressage ( back home in germany) and was used to a: make the horse do what he needs to do approach within the facet of classical training including in hand work.
HOWEVER: THIS IS NOT WORKING WITH THIS HORSE, now basically i feel like a fish out of the water not knowing what else to do because my knowledge is all the dressage stuff, the in hand work and working with horses with temper tantrums.

From what I was told, he was used as an athletic equipment:
born on a very well know performance ranch, sold at 2
sold again and again and again. The last 3 owner had him at trainers and dumped him back into the pastures, the very last owner was 14 year old that injured him badly with a high port bit. He has a low palette, small mouth, fat tongue and the Vet at the purchase exam showed me the raw spots on his palette - i was horrified.

With him i feel like i’m relearning horsemanship all over again. Its very humbling.

The reason for the trainer is that she is very very conservative in her approach of training, never a harsh pull but consistency, he learned contact within the last 3 month where understandably he was horrified before etc.

She only rides him because i’m not cleared for riding. My vertebrates are still not healed, reason it hurt pretty bad as he jumped and i wasn’t prepared. ( my mistake i should have never got on him)

as i bought him, he has NO IDEA what treats are. Refused carrots,apples and anything out of my hand. he is now very food motivated :eek: lol clicker training and TT looks like a good fit. I like CA but it might be to harsh on him, he is very sensitive ( not in spooky ) introvert, slow,steady with him seems to work better…he is an ASK ME WITH RESPECT Horse vs a tell him what to do ( which was the only horses i ever had) Learning curve for me.

I appreciate all of your advice. it puts things into perspective.
THANK YOU ALL SO VERY MUCH :smiley: keep your ideas coming on how i can help this guy. I think i will print this out and remind myself of all the sound advice you guys give me when i get discouraged :)[/QUOTE]

OK, the fact that you’re most familiar with German type horses and training speaks volumes. One piece of this picture may be that QH’s are far more the “cooperative, work with me” type than the type you “dictate” to. If started Western as it sounds like this guy was, they are also very, VERY sensitive to seat and leg aids and are used to cues pretty much 180 degrees off of what classical riders use. Bending around your inside leg, how to use his body, his “wheelbase” in turns and circles and ESPECIALLY accepting contact (worse if he’s been hurt) are going to be totally mystifying to him.

No wonder the poor little guy’s “shut down.”

First thing you need to do is that groundwork everyone’s mentioned. I’m not into the “clicker” thing, but one way or another he needs to learn that you are his FRIEND and protector and not just another person out to inflict pain. Talk to a GOOD Western equitation rider or buy a book or good explanatory video, because you’re going to have to “translate” what he knows of those aids into the “new language” of classical aids you’re trying to teach him. Expect that to take several years! However, if you won’t be showing, just riding for pleasure, you might find learning to speak HIS first language a viable option also.

What NOT to do: Lots of heavy driving seat, legs that grip and never release, hands that demand contact without softening to reward. Not accusing you of any of that, just saying. I’m writing this not just for you, OP, but others who might find themselves in similar circumstances.

When you can get on, pick up the reins and mentally ask, “How would you like to be ridden?” Be light, be as sensitive as he is, and try to be correct for what he knows. Praise him with your voice and a stroke of your hand when he’s right and you’re going to see his ears wiggle! They are very, VERY smart! I’m guessing you’ll be on the same page before you know it.

If you TRULY are only happy on one of those big-moving WB’s, however, PLEASE sell this nice sound, safe, sane fellow to an older pleasure rider who is desperately seeking exactly what he is. You aren’t going to make him into that WB no matter how hard you try, and you’ll frustrate the both of you trying.

One more thought: 25 years ago I was also a “fire-eater” who’d ride anything with a back to sit on, especially if they were cheap and I thought I could “straighten them out.” I evented, hunted side-saddle, did all manner of things that made my friends think I was “fearless.” Then one day, I was 35 and things hurt and just having a friendly soul who wasn’t challenging me half to death, with whom riding was not a death-or-glory proposition each and every time, started to feel really, really good. I started to buy the horses I needed NOW instead of one like I had 25 years ago. And that is totally O.K.!

Another factor is you mention you have a little girl. If your horse is safe for her to learn on, but still fun for you, you have something PRICELESS.

Happiness is found when we want what we have. :yes:

Lady E I wish Id knwon you a year ago thats why I was so frustrated with my QH, I rode breeds that werent so sensitive before & when I rode him the same way he went like WTH? & checked out. I thought he was dumber than cow dung but once I learned what he needed we got along great. Yeah OP if you can find someone who knows what QH like to work with you 2 you will learn lots quicker, they only try for a few times then they get so confused they quit really quit & theres no reset button on a QH or at least on mine!

LE said something of great value :
Try being the person HE needs for awhile and see how it works out.

Apparently he doesnt need you to be the person who sits and watches him graze.

Also you are still recovering from an injury - not the time to be making any drastic decisions.
I have a young one who landed me in the hospital twice within 6 months. During the injury I was so done with horses I didnt want any part of any of them. I was going to sell him and be done with it.

It took over a year before I came to enjoy riding again. And its just recent (within the last 3 months) that I have really come to bond with him, and since then he has been a saint. I finally learned what HE needed - and its nothing what I would have thought. He is like a border collie and he needs a job and he needs praise when he`s doing it right.

So giving him a day off more then once every couple of weeks - he is not happy. Plus it was also giving him boundaries - so he knows what to expect from me.

It just clicked one day and I finally feel like we are partners now.

Give yourself time to heal, and watch his behaviour - when does he show you he`s happy… see if you can get involved with him at that time.

And after time passes if you still feel this way then relook at it. I know the days that its been a less then steller ride or days that my wallet is bleeding from horse costs, it really helps to be able to look at your horse and say, yep worth it. Thankfully due to our partnership now and the fact he`s rather pretty to look at - those wallet days arent enough for me to start typing up the for sale ad.

My heart horse was a QH. Never a cuddle bug, only barely tolerated hugs, would spit out all treats except Mrs. Pasture’s. But he adored me (and I him)’ and would have crawled through broken glass to get to me.

Our bond came through riding, jumping (which he really loved), and games. I played games with him, just stuff I made up, not out of a book or from a trainer. We played hide and seek, we raced each other, we played tag, and we walked and walked and talked and talked. At first, when I tried to play with him, he thought I was completely crazy. But he caught on quick, and we had so much fun. I laughed so hard, and swear he did, too.

But trusting each other over fences sealed our deal. He was my King, and I was his princess. He never was a pocket pony though. Too dignified for baby talk or being all cuddly-wuddly. He was a very serious fellow who enjoyed his job and intended to do it well. (And he did!)

OP- I adopted a 2 year old black lab with a similar, 6 home background and it took him almost a year to decide I was his person. If it can take that long with a labrador, your horse’s timeline seems totally reasonable.

It sounds like you’ve found a great fit for what you need at this point in your life. Have you thought about whether your feelings about the horse may be tied to your feelings about the back injury? Accepting that he is a great fit for you, means accepting the impact of your injury on your life. Just a thought.

In terms of bonding, you might try getting him a treat dispensing ball. Keep it for times when you’re hanging out with him. You’ll be rolling it to show him how it works, then entertained watching him do it. It will start to give him a sense that good things happen when you’re hanging around, even if you’re not actively grooming or feeding him.

Because you are not ready to commit, your QH is not ready to commit either. If your guy has been passed around 6 times, you have only owned him 1 yr less 2 months, you are not giving yourself or him enough time to get the connection you want. One answer you already know, he is everything you want & need. Take the time to enjoy this relationship and allow your self to fully commit, so this nice horse can. Horses are Smart smart, I.e. Feed tub should tell you this guy is not your run of the mill types, but the horse knews & has experience with being passed around, he is protecting himself from being pulled away from someone he might like,

Also, his past training may have educated him to not people bond, so give it time, you & this horse will connect, if you both want it

I have raised most of my horses and the bond between them and I is always very noticeable. On the occasion I buy a broke horse who has had multiple owners it is always a different story. It can take years for them to open up to you and I think it takes longer when you aren’t the one who takes over the daily care. Your guy is boarded? Then you have multiple people taking care of him and his needs. Some horses also just don’t show that much affection for their people. My daughter’s horse is a prime example. We have owned her 3 1/2 years and keep her at home. She doesn’t like to be loved on , or come up to say hi, or even get the occasional treat. She is completely anti social, really. She also does what ever we ask of her w/o an issue and is a safe ride for my daughter . That is the most important thing.

You have a horse who is great in every way except that you aren’t in " love" with him. Forget the warm fuzzies and hang on to a horse that sounds like he is worth hanging onto forever.