Tori is champion at talent search finals

[RugBug]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8348484]
That is actually not the case. There are people in this thread and others referred to people as “fools” and other stuff. Personal insults like that (along with bad language) is quite a different matter from saying the style of a group of riders looks a certain way (anteater, praying mantis, …)[/QUOTE]

OMG. So said I someone was acting like a fool. I didn’t not call them a fool. The poster I directed that at called people naive. Not that they were acting naive…that they were. But so what? It’s comments online. Honestly, I’m not going to hold on to it for 6 more pages of posts.

FWIW - and a little personal insight into me as a poster…if I say you lack reading comprehension, it’s a much more serious dig than saying someone is acting stupid or like a fool or what have you. Everyone acts like a fool from time to time…I figure it’s better to embrace my foolishness and admit it. But that’s just me.

There is “bad language” all over this forum. If you don’t like it, don’t read the forum. (<—amateur moderation there. ). You are oddly stuck on that. Do you never use/hear bad language in your real life?

[Davignport]

Too bad that hunters can’t go back to the what they were originally. Horses jumping in a hunt field over various obstacles of size and height, and being horses, even if that included a buck or a kick now and then. Today’s hunters, if you can even call them that, are so far removed it is very sad. Why not just come up with a new name for this division that would suit these horses better. No, I don’t know what you would call it. How about “Prepped Horses Over Fences”? For the owners, trainers, riders, etc. of all these “prepped horses”, if you are caught drugging, how about showing a little bit of remorse or shame. Now THAT would be something to celebrate. I guess that blue ribbon is just too important to some people to even consider the welfare of their horses.

[omare]

I too think she is extra-ordinarily talented and the horses do seem to like her. Ironically, assuming prep is the usual SOP whether natural (i.e., turn out, loungeing, drawing, low carb feed, training, hand grazing, etc) .or not were removed, I suspect she is the type of rider that would get along the best with the fresher hotter more reactive ones.o’natural than many other riders.

[ybiaw]

[QUOTE=omare;8348537]
I too think she is extra-ordinarily talented and the horses do seem to like her. Ironically, assuming prep is the usual SOB whether natural (i.e., turn out, loungeing, drawing, low carb feed, training, hand grazing, etc) .or not were removed, I suspect she is the type of rider that would get along the best with the fresher hotter more reactive ones.o’natural than many other riders.[/QUOTE]

Uhhhh you mean SOP, right?

[Manni01]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8348487]
That is actually not the case. There are people in this thread and others referred to people as “fools” and other stuff. Personal insults like that (along with bad language) is quite a different matter from saying the style of a group of riders looks a certain way (anteater, praying mantis, …)[/QUOTE]

I agree very much with this post. Its very unfortunate and sad…

[nutmeg]

[QUOTE=Davignport;8348533]
Too bad that hunters can’t go back to the what they were originally. Horses jumping in a hunt field over various obstacles of size and height, and being horses, even if that included a buck or a kick now and then. Today’s hunters, if you can even call them that, are so far removed it is very sad. Why not just come up with a new name for this division that would suit these horses better. No, I don’t know what you would call it. How about “Prepped Horses Over Fences”? For the owners, trainers, riders, etc. of all these “prepped horses”, if you are caught drugging, how about showing a little bit of remorse or shame. Now THAT would be something to celebrate. I guess that blue ribbon is just too important to some people to even consider the welfare of their horses.[/QUOTE]

Good idea. And I want them stabled separately too. Nothing worse than moving into a stall with that telltale splatter all over the back wall after junior weekend.

[skydy]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8347997]
This is a worthwhile topic to discuss because (a) a high profile rider was found to have been riding a very successful horse who was caught with substances in his system that should not have been there (b) It is highlighting critical issues in this industry.

The huge amount of debate highlights just how sensitive this issue is in the equestrian community and how much we could benefit from changes to the system.[/QUOTE]

Again,I don’t think anyone said this was not a worthwhile topic to discuss.
I don’t see that sentiment anywhere on this thread.

It is bothersome to some posters to see people jumping to conclusions and speculating about who knew what and other things that we cannot know. There is no insight to be gained by guessing.

There is certainly plenty of subject matter to discuss if one reads the available transcripts. No need to make suppositions when there are plenty of actual statements by the people involved. :yes:

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=Davignport;8348533]
Too bad that hunters can’t go back to the what they were originally. Horses jumping in a hunt field over various obstacles of size and height, and being horses, even if that included a buck or a kick now and then. Today’s hunters, if you can even call them that, are so far removed it is very sad. Why not just come up with a new name for this division that would suit these horses better. No, I don’t know what you would call it. How about “Prepped Horses Over Fences”? For the owners, trainers, riders, etc. of all these “prepped horses”, if you are caught drugging, how about showing a little bit of remorse or shame. Now THAT would be something to celebrate. I guess that blue ribbon is just too important to some people to even consider the welfare of their horses.[/QUOTE]

And, how was that, exactly? I have been involved with fox hunters on and off my whole life. I would say roughly 1in 10 do not give a couple cc of Ace when they hunt. That then carried over into the show ring. Many/most show hunters in the 60s (as far back as I can knowingly go) showed on a cc of Ace. Until Sallie Sexton made it her mission to get rid of Ace. A simple, not dangerous drug. So, the trainers looked for untestables. Beginning with reserpine. For which there was a massive roundup of offenders in the mid 70s. Many of the TOP riders and trainers got caught up in that. And the cycle continues today. The industry which has always used calming drugs comes up with a new one, USEF eventually finds out, comes up with a new one. Wash, rinse, repeat.

So, thinking that this is somehow new, hasn’t been pervasive FOREVER, and will continue no matter what rules are made, need to just pack up and move to Fantasyland. As long as people, horses and money intersect, this will happen. And don’t start preaching that I condone it. I don’t. Well, I believe we should go back to a cc of Ace and burn the longe lines. But Tori Colvin is just being used as your current lynch victim. Nothing more.

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=Davignport;8348533]
Too bad that hunters can’t go back to the what they were originally. Horses jumping in a hunt field over various obstacles of size and height, and being horses, even if that included a buck or a kick now and then. Today’s hunters, if you can even call them that, are so far removed it is very sad. Why not just come up with a new name for this division that would suit these horses better. No, I don’t know what you would call it. How about “Prepped Horses Over Fences”? For the owners, trainers, riders, etc. of all these “prepped horses”, if you are caught drugging, how about showing a little bit of remorse or shame. Now THAT would be something to celebrate. I guess that blue ribbon is just too important to some people to even consider the welfare of their horses.[/QUOTE]

And, how was that, exactly? I have been involved with fox hunters on and off my whole life. I would say roughly 1in 10 do not give a couple cc of Ace when they hunt. That then carried over into the show ring. Many/most show hunters in the 60s (as far back as I can knowingly go) showed on a cc of Ace. Until Sallie Sexton made it her mission to get rid of Ace. A simple, not dangerous drug. So, the trainers looked for untestables. Beginning with reserpine. For which there was a massive roundup of offenders in the mid 70s. Many of the TOP riders and trainers got caught up in that. And the cycle continues today. The industry which has always used calming drugs comes up with a new one, USEF eventually finds out, comes up with a test, then the trainers find a new one. Wash, rinse, repeat.

So, anyone thinking that this is somehow new, hasn’t been pervasive FOREVER, and will continue no matter what rules are made, needs to just pack up and move to Fantasyland. As long as people, horses and money intersect, this will happen. And don’t start preaching that I condone it. I don’t. Well, I believe we should go back to a cc of Ace and burn the longe lines. But Tori Colvin is just being used as your current lynch victim. Nothing more.

[omare]

“Uhhhh you mean SOP, right?–”

Oops yes I do think so- I will try to correct and let that Freudian slip be preserved in your astute proof reading!

[ynl063w]

This post provided a much needed touch of lightness and humor, so thank you. And I am saying that as someone who could have used WAY more than 9 tubes of Perfect Prep yesterday. To be clear, I still stand by every message I delivered, but at the same time I appreciate your sense of humor.

[ynl063w]

[QUOTE=AllisonWunderlund;8348129]
I thinks some posters on this thread need a tube or 9 of Perfect Prep.

Sorry, could not resist.[/QUOTE]

This post provided a much needed touch of lightness and humor, so thank you. And I am saying that as someone who could have used WAY more than 9 tubes of Perfect Prep yesterday. To be clear, I still stand by every message I delivered, but at the same time I appreciate your sense of humor.

[Sticky_Situation]

[QUOTE=Midge;8347122]
Do you think they should not have a right to appeal? No ‘lawyering up’? Because it’s more important that she be punished at a time it would hurt the worst, regardless of whether she was actually the guilty party or not?[/QUOTE]

I do think that they should be able to appeal, so as far as that is concerned she is well within her rights … And I suppose that the letter of the current USEF drug rule, which seems to be about as sturdy and impenetrable as a flimsy screen door, is being upheld.

But I do think that there is a problem with the current USEF drug enforcement program when one of a horse’s connections has admitted to knowledge of the horse’s illegal drug regimen (even if they weren’t the one to actually administer it) right down to the NINE tubes of Perfect Prep, said person has told the drug testers that they are the trainer/responsible person for the horse … And the USEF is unable to even uphold the temporary suspension.

We aren’t talking about possible contamination, or someone accidentally messing up withdrawal times for a drug that was administered for a legitimate purpose. The horse was intentionally given an illegal substance shortly before showing for the purpose of keeping him calmer in the show ring. I have not read the court documents, but it’s my understanding that this is essentially spelled out in them.

If this situation isn’t proof that the drug policy needs an overhaul, I’m not sure what is.

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=jhg140;8346541]
As I said previously, how can it give her an edge if all of her competitors are also doing it, and probably with injected pharmaceuticals, not just Perfect Prep? That would make the playing field even. The edge is that Tori rides better than everyone else (usually).[/QUOTE]

You’re saying she rides a drugged horse better than everyone else ?

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=lauriep;8347007]
Her talent is so much greater than her wins. She is, or will be, as good as Rodney, and he’s the best we have ever had. If you have never seen her get on horse after horse, and they all so willingly do what she asks, you cannot understand. She is more than just a good junior rider.[/QUOTE]

Actually I’d rather see her talent used to start a young horse, bring him up through the ranks, and earn championships that way.

[Mardi]

@RugBug;8348508

Your comment actually points to TC being the truly gifted rider that people hold her up to be. Other juniors don’t match her results, not because they aren’t prepping, because you’d be extremely naive to think they weren’t, but because Tori is just that much better. She rides better than many, many pros and it shows in her results.

Geez…why do people overlook that fact that the quality of the horse is a factor in TC’s results ? Perhaps one of the reasons TC wins over other riders is that her horses are better.

From a recent COTH column : “Does the rider make a horse an Olympian, or does the horse make a rider one ?”

[lmlacross]

[QUOTE=Mardi;8349394]
Geez…why do people overlook that fact that the quality of the horse is a factor in TC’s results ? Perhaps one of the reasons TC wins over other riders is that her horses are better.

From a recent COTH column : “Does the rider make a horse an Olympian, or does the horse make a rider one ?”[/QUOTE]

I don’t think anyone’s overlooking that, but you seem to be implying that she’s winning because the quality of horse she’s up against in big time AA and Indoors competition is significantly below her own, giving her an edge that others don’t have. I simply don’t buy it. Top flight horses (bought and provided by big time money) are not the exception when it comes to those who pin at this level-- they’re the rule. TC does well with a variety of different rides and types, it seems, and the competing horseflesh very much belongs.

[justathought]

[QUOTE=lauriep;8349181]
And, how was that, exactly? I have been involved with fox hunters on and off my whole life. I would say roughly 1in 10 do not give a couple cc of Ace when they hunt. That then carried over into the show ring. Many/most show hunters in the 60s (as far back as I can knowingly go) showed on a cc of Ace. Until Sallie Sexton made it her mission to get rid of Ace. A simple, not dangerous drug. So, the trainers looked for untestables. Beginning with reserpine. For which there was a massive roundup of offenders in the mid 70s. Many of the TOP riders and trainers got caught up in that. And the cycle continues today. The industry which has always used calming drugs comes up with a new one, USEF eventually finds out, comes up with a test, then the trainers find a new one. Wash, rinse, repeat.

So, thinking that this is somehow new, hasn’t been pervasive FOREVER, and will continue no matter what rules are made, need to just pack up and move to Fantasyland. As long as people, horses and money intersect, this will happen. And don’t start preaching that I condone it. I don’t. Well, I believe we should go back to a cc of Ace and burn the longe lines. But Tori Colvin is just being used as your current lynch victim. Nothing more.[/QUOTE]

This post makes me SO SAD. While Ace might be less harmful… what about if we just identified suitable horses and trained them appropriately.

Willing to accept that might be fewer “spectacular” performers in exchange for having a clean sport. Unlike fox hunting, which involves multiple horses “chasing” a fox or scent in company, the show world is a fairly controlled environment

[ynl063w]

[QUOTE=Mardi;8349385]
Actually I’d rather see her talent used to start a young horse, bring him up through the ranks, and earn championships that way.[/QUOTE]

But it’s not about you and what you want.

[pepper1986]

It really is a sad state of affairs that it has come to this! Money and the all encompasing need to win is what drives people to do the things we do at the sake of another creature of God’s.