Totally stupid hunter show questions

[luvdogz72]

[QUOTE=DMK;7978629]
See my explanation above - divisions that are classified as “zone divisions” (code for “regional”) will never ever be anything but a C rated division. They are effectively maxed out at that rating, so all A (or AA and B) shows have both classes with national ranking (which will carry the same rating as the show) and zone divisions (which will always be C rated divisions) on the schedule. The zone classes are popular and generally profitable for show management.[/QUOTE]

YOU are one knowledgeable person!!

[DMK]

LOL or I spent a few years utterly clueless and stumbling around trying to find the secret decoder ring before amazon or the internets were invented…

[SCC]

The actual Derby was moved to Sunday morning at 7:30 because show was running so late on Saturday.

Riders were allowed to warm up in the ring prior to their rotation (in groups of 3) because warm up area was a total washout.

Not unusual for this show to have horses unbraided since braiders are in FL. It used to be that braidibg was optional at January and February Triangle shows.

Management company does an excellent job with these shows. The weather played a large role in issues this time.

[Janet]

[QUOTE=luvdogz72;7978770]
YOU are one knowledgeable person!![/QUOTE]

DMK is one of the BEST source for information about the HJ world.

[inca]

[QUOTE=luvdogz72;7978586]
god, A shows are so complicated! Would they have c-rated divisions just so people can get experience at a fancier show?[/QUOTE]

Around here the largest division at almost every single A or AA show is the Modified Adults, which is the 2’6" C-rated division. Why wouldn’t shows want to offer that?

And there are no B or C rated shows in this area any more. You either go to the local circuit or you go to A/AA shows/ Nothing in between.

[Lord_Helpus]

[QUOTE=J-Lu;7977015]
Groom&Taxi, the show schedule is here, Jan 22-25. Should be all A rated because the show is A rated? Is that right? The prize list takes about 5 minutes to load should you want to click on it, don’t be deterred.
http://www.trianglefarms.com/

Thanks, OnDeck, that makes alot of sense. I have shown alot in dressage and I understand the tricks/strategies for showing, but I’m not so aware of them for hunters. What you’re saying makes sense. I saw a number of mistakes in changes but they were fixed pretty quickly. The judge seeing/not seeing the correction could very well account for some of the scores. The smoothest fixes - which didn’t change the line to the next fence - seemed to score the best.

I know that there’s a style component for the horse, too. My eye isn’t good enough to look at the rider and horse at the same time, which undoubtedly contributes to my inability to figure out how the subtle aspects are judged.

Thanks, all, for helping me understand this show.[/QUOTE]

I was about to post that, at winter shows run by Triangle (in NC/SC) it says right in the prize list that braiding is not necessary. Even for A and AA shows. This is because so many braiders are in Florida that it became hard/impossible for some barns to find a braider. I am not sure if this happens in the rest of the country, or is just done at the Triangle Farm’s shows.

[Melissa.Van_Doren]

[QUOTE=horselovelife;7978562]
Just while its brought up in this topic, my horse cannot do lead changes to save his life. Only time he does them is when he gets real excited (ex: about to race my friend hehe) so at shows if I don’t get my lead after the jump I have to trot to get it. What’s the best way to do this? Should I come down to a nice trot for few steps then pick up my lead, or try to do a quick change? Sometimes he gets a little frazzled with doing simple changes, he will get kinda excited and will awkwardly leap onto the next lead too quickly and doesn’t get the whole lead. Sooo yah. Ps I just do schooling shows if that means anything haha[/QUOTE]

If the rules say “simple changes will not be penalized” for your division, a well-executed simple change (a minimum of trot steps) is fine. If the rules don’t say that, you should be aware a break in gait (from canter to trot, for example) is more heavily penalized than continuing to the next fence on the wrong lead.

[Melissa.Van_Doren]

@J-Lu;7977015

I know that there’s a style component for the horse, too. My eye isn’t good enough to look at the rider and horse at the same time, which undoubtedly contributes to my inability to figure out how the subtle aspects are judged.

Classes with “hunter” in the title judge the horse, only. Jumping style, way of going across the ground, manners and soundness. Conformation comes into play only in conformation classes.
Classes with “equitation” in the title judge the rider, only. Position as it relates to the standard, and effective use of the aids while negotiating the course and tests. Mistakes by the horse are only penalized if the rider’s direction is at fault.

[Sing_Mia_Song]

Braiding/not braiding is often dependant on the region–a “when in Rome” thing, if you will. Growing up in New England, we braided for even the smallest of schooling shows (except for one icicle circuit show series that I adored because braiding was actually forbidden in the prize list). Here in Maryland, you are a rube if you braid at the local one-days. The sad thing is that it means I have lost those braiding skills I worked so hard to perfect as a junior!

[J-Lu]

Thanks, everyone, for your input. My home computer is being fixed-no access there. So I apologize for the late reply.

It is very well possible that I missed an announcement or didn’t understand what. I guess I was a bit miffed because I specifically asked in the show office, and I specifically asked the steward (OK, NOT TD!! ) late in the day. Honestly, I spent the late morning-evening in Raleigh specifically to watch the Derby. The Steward told me the order of go was posted 30 min prior to the class. I didn’t know enough and he didn’t mention that it could be posted the night before and that the class might be bumped to the next day. I guess I was surprised when the management assured me it would start at 8 pm and come 9:30, the juniors were still showing. I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND that a show can get behind but it seems like they’d know by 6 or so if the main ring was THAT behind. That said, people seemed to be adding classes left and right (I stood by the outdoor ring for a while and people had no clue if they were entered in warm-up classes and were adding them here and there as the ring steward said “no, you’re not on this list”. I think she let people do warmup classes before they even officially entered the class).

That said, in dressage-land, the show schedule is much stricter, and the evening classes meant to draw in crowds are very much on time. They’d never bump a Sat night Freestyle class to first thing the next morning, so I didn’t realize the schedule was so flexible here.

I’m still surprised at the braiding, though. I guess it is a “regional thing” (I grew up in CT - one always braided). Braiding can “optional” at recognized dressage shows, too, but pretty much everyone braids (even if the braids are “fugly”).

I grew up going to the Farmington Horse Show in CT (my first riding discipline was h/j back in the day) and I love going to the Duke “Jump for the Children” show. This was the first time that I went to watch a “mere” A hunter show in a looong while. It was pretty interesting to watch.

Thanks, everyone, for helping me understand what was going on, and answering some of my stupid questions! I really appreciate your responses. I will definitely be more flexible time-wise when attending hunter shows in the future!

[inca]

I showed dressage for 20 years - it was quite the shock when I switched to hunters!!! First hunter show I ever attended, I was going to watch a horse I bred and raised and sold as a 3-yr-old. I didn’t understand the answer I received when I asked “what time are you showing” - LOL

And to me, hunter shows are a 3 ring circus compared to dressage shows. If I ever decide to get a young dressage horse again, we will go hang out at hunter shows first. Then dressage shows will seem like no big deal.

It really is hard to understand hunter shows if you aren’t there with someone that knows what is going on. (And I still ask questions from time to time.)

[DMK]

thanks, Janet!

J-Lu - as in all things, you can have good management and bad management. Good management is Very Aware of how the rings are going (and there is an artform to juggling them) and will cut off “adds” if the ring is running late and cutting into a priority scheduled class (like a derby). They will also generally move other classes out of that ring to “protect” the timing of the priority class (if it looks like it is running late).

But if you have management that is not as experienced the whole thing can snowball. I wonder if the earlier smaller fence height divisions ran late and screwed up the whole schedule and the problem with 3’6 fences is it is not easy to build a 3’6 fence in a ring meant for smaller fence heights. The fillers are too short and you end up with airy ugly jumps. So if you totally missed that the under 3’6 classes in your ring were running late (or you let in too many late adds), you might find yourself absolutely needing to finish the 3’6 divisions in that ring. And once you start a class, you mostly need to finish it except in very rare circumstances.

But this is me just speculating.

[Gorgonzola]

[QUOTE=DMK;7981099]
thanks, Janet!

J-Lu - as in all things, you can have good management and bad management. Good management is Very Aware of how the rings are going (and there is an artform to juggling them) and will cut off “adds” if the ring is running late and cutting into a priority scheduled class (like a derby). They will also generally move other classes out of that ring to “protect” the timing of the priority class (if it looks like it is running late).

But if you have management that is not as experienced the whole thing can snowball. I wonder if the earlier smaller fence height divisions ran late and screwed up the whole schedule and the problem with 3’6 fences is it is not easy to build a 3’6 fence in a ring meant for smaller fence heights. The fillers are too short and you end up with airy ugly jumps. So if you totally missed that the under 3’6 classes in your ring were running late (or you let in too many late adds), you might find yourself absolutely needing to finish the 3’6 divisions in that ring. And once you start a class, you mostly need to finish it except in very rare circumstances.

But this is me just speculating.[/QUOTE]

All very true!

Another thing to remember, a 3’ derby, in January at an A show ‘up north’ is not a big feature class. If it was a International Derby? Yes. If it was in the summer? Sure. But when you’re dealing with cold temps, no footing outside and a delayed schedule the management isn’t going to make everyone stay at the show til midnight, because I bet a bunch of people would scratch (I would!!) and/or complain.
I realize you (the OP) made a day out of this, but I think the show management did what was best for the situation they were dealt.

[J-Lu]

Just wanted to say thank, guys! I have a new appreciation for how the hunter shows run and what is asked of the competitors/horses (esp in bad weather). Thanks for taking the time to clue in a hunter newbie!

[SCI]

If you were at the Triangle Farms show in Raleigh last weekend I can probably answer your derby questions. The derby was moved to Sunday morning at 7:30 since the show was running so late on Saturday. The schooling rings were completely unridable on Saturday so before each rotation they allowed people to go in the ring and warmup. There were no warmup classes.

On Sunday the derby was run as a separate class and there were 4 high options in each round along with a trot fence in the handy round. The schooling rings had “firmed up” over night and people were not allowed to school in the ring before the derby. Warmup classes were eliminated on Sunday due to time constraints.

Most people did not braid because braiding is optional at the Winter Indoor shows that Triangle hosts.