What would everyone here think of Totilas a a jumping sire?
Breeding through him to get to the Glendale/Nimmerdor side of his pedigree? As well as the use of Gribaldi as a grandsire.
2 mares I have that would be considered for this:
First a Rubenstein daughter from a Raimero Z/Ladykiller mare, she competed to PSG with her original owner and show jumped to Grand Prix with me for 8wins out of 13 starts(before retiring due to injury). She has had a foal to Gribaldi via ET when she was younger and that was definitely a breeding I wanted to repeat, however her career came first and then he died:cry: I am not so worried about his poor hind leg action as she tends to be over-active with her hind legs.
The 2nd mare is a TB. But before you diss(no offence…) she has great bloodlines and has produced some great TBXs, from Sir Tristram/Brilliant Invader bloodlines, her oldest son is currently 7 and has just won his area 7yo champs(12 jumps, 1.3-1.4m). She has had foals to Weltmyer and De Niro, but by far my favourite was her foal to Komet Van C, a half brother of Totilas, he is now rising 3 and shows an excellent ability to learn and focus(on opening all my gates!!!). Totilas also appears to be throwing quite a short back amongst his progency(check out Tolegro) and as she has a medium to long back and super-powerful hindquarters I think she would repell that. She also did dressage to level 6, show jumped to Grand Prix and eventer to 3star.
Likewise, any other stallion recommendations would be greatly accepted, we are also considering the following stallions:
Jazz
Número uno
Tornesch
De niro(again)
Action Breaker
Eurocommerce Berlin
Any information anyone might have on these stallions, or suggestions of other stallions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks:winkgrin:
I’m not sure what your breeding goal is, but it seems to be to produce upper level jumpers. I would not breed to a dressage stallion to hope for an upper level jumper even if you’ve had luck with de Niro and weltmeyer in the past. Is the idea that if you accidently get a nice jumper, then great, but if not, hopefully they’ll move well enough to be sold to a dressage rider? If so I’d use jumper stallions with quality movement. Look and see what jumper stallions have been brought into dressage breeding (buurgraff, Voltaire (both add walk and canter quality)). Indotro’s consistently have good elastic movement. There are several out there. If you want to go more in the middle, Wamberto is dressage bred on top and jumper on bottom. He won both jumping and dressage portions of the stallion test. I still wouldn’t select him for an upper level jumper prospect though.
[QUOTE=flyracing;8037075]
I’m not sure what your breeding goal is, but it seems to be to produce upper level jumpers. I would not breed to a dressage stallion to hope for an upper level jumper even if you’ve had luck with de Niro and weltmeyer in the past.[/QUOTE]
What I do varies with my horses. For instance on my current team there are a level 7 Weltmyer gelding(with whom I am training Prix st Georges and above with hopes to step up next season), a 2star eventer(TB/Raimerz), a open hunter, a Grand Prix show jumper, and even a QH whom I barrel race. No Breeding is ever perfect. Sometimes on paper it looks like you will get the ideal dressage horse, but you end up with a jumper instead. My De Niro foal is now 5 and is beginning to show potential in both the dressage and show jumper rings, while my Weltmyer boy is out of a ladykiller mare and hunts full wire during the off-season.
Thank you for the suggestions. 
Definitely consider Berlin. Great jump, gaits, and hind end, as well as presence.
I would not use Totilas, De Niro, Jazz, Weltmeyer etc. etc. if I was aiming to breed jumpers even though they may have varying degrees of jumping ability and/or the ability to pass it on at times. It is well known that having jumper blood in the pedigree of a dressage horse is a good thing but it is also well known that it just does not really work the other way around… at least not reliably. Breeding comes with enough risk and if you are breeding purpose bred horses, you need to start with what works. Breeding jumper x jumper is well known to provide the best odds at producing a jumper. It’s not to say one can’t get a good jumper any other way, it is just not as likely. If the plan is to keep the offspring that’s fine but if your breeding to sell, it’s taking a very big risk…
I’d definitely say no, if only due to his ridiculously high stud fee. Much too much of a financial risk to take when there are some wonderful stallions proven at producing both dressage and jump horses.
[QUOTE=half*pass;8037262]
I’d definitely say no, if only due to his ridiculously high stud fee. Much too much of a financial risk to take when there are some wonderful stallions proven at producing both dressage and jump horses.[/QUOTE]
This.
I don’t even think Totilas is worth $7000 stud fee to produce a dressage horse, and certainly not a jumper.
So many other, better choices around. One who has recently come to my eye as far as multi-discipline is Lissaro.
[QUOTE=half*pass;8037262]
I’d definitely say no, if only due to his ridiculously high stud fee. Much too much of a financial risk to take when there are some wonderful stallions proven at producing both dressage and jump horses.[/QUOTE]
This again…not worth the gamble of the high stud fee (and still unproven sire) and also not worth the gamble of a good jumping mare. I’d look for a different sire.
Can you not find frozen for Gribaldi (I think the quality is questionable perhaps)? Or at least a different son if that is the cross you really want.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;8037548]
This.
I don’t even think Totilas is worth $7000 stud fee to produce a dressage horse, and certainly not a jumper.
So many other, better choices around. One who has recently come to my eye as far as multi-discipline is Lissaro.[/QUOTE]
I seem to recall comments from another thread where the fees could be even higher than that if the mare doesn’t take on the first try and you have to order more straws. I think one person made the comment they know someone who spent $20k trying to get their mare in foal to him.
I’m not sure what he costs in the US, but here you’ll be out of pocket at least €4.000 and €8.000 if your mare is pregnant. For that much money I could pay stud fees for 5 or 6 years to stallions who have proven themselves as good performance sires in my discipline.
And I second Lissaro.
Also, Embassy I is another one who might pique your interest. Strong jumper line, but has also produced the wonderful Edward who is competing PSG (I believe??).
Embassy 1
I’ve not used any of the Embassey brothers, but I’ve bred from their sire Escudo 1 before out of a Voltaire/Raimero Z mare, the foal is now an 8yo stallion, competing dressage open medium and jumping junior rider with a 14yo! The same mare is going back in foal to him this season, who provide semen from the Embasseys?
Thanks for the suggestions of Lissaro and Wamburto, am looking at them. And thanks for the good report on Berlin! Does anyone know what his semen is like?
My Voltaire/Raimero Z mare has just had a foal to Totilas and the year before to Jazz. Her Totilas filly is very laid back(almost lying down!) and takes everyone in her stride with a very floaty trot, in comparison, the Jazz colt has a very bouncy trot like his mom and is very much a pro horse, not spooky, but VERY sensitive. Easily one of the sharpest Jazz foals we’ve had.
I am not breeding specifically to sell. I breed 1 or 2 mares a year and keep the foals that then compete with myself, my son, or my niece. If someone comes up to us at a show and offers to buy one of our foals we would not necessarily say no, but we don’t breed to sell.
Thanks for the suggestions, more are always welcome!
:winkgrin::):winkgrin:
And how do you post photos?? Does anyone know? Thanks:winkgrin:
Embassy I stands at Landgestüt Celle.
[QUOTE=half*pass;8038127]
Embassy I stands at Landgestüt Celle.[/QUOTE]
Embassy I does not freeze.
Take a look at Hirtentanz. Trak, whose damsire is Kostolany, and is said to be best as a jumper sire, although he does have quite a few eventing offspring. His oldest offspring seem to be seven. He’s black and beautiful. Looks like Gribaldi, in fact; but his sire is also black.
You’re likely to find a more all round stallion in the Traks.
I’m guessing that you are located in NZ.
Embassy III does freeze (Celle sells his frozen), and i can vouch for one first cycle pregnancy on one dose. Started his career as a jumper, was sold into a dressage home with a Young Rider in Canada.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8038291]
Take a look at Hirtentanz.
You’re likely to find a more all round stallion in the Traks.
I’m guessing that you are located in NZ.[/QUOTE]
And trakners have always proved to cross well with my TBs. I like the look of Hirtentanz, what is the quality of his semen like?
I am based in NZ, it is where most of my competition horses are, but my main breeding station is in Holland. Almost all of my mares are there, except for my TB girl and my Voltaire/Raimero Z mare who currently reside with my son in Australia.
I like Embassy 3!
Thanks :winkgrin:
Looking for a dressage sire that might throw nice jumpers I would look at Escudo I or II
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallions/escudo_i.shtml
Quarterback
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallion.php?Quaterback-42
or his palomino son Quasi Gold
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallion.php?Quasi-Gold-MD-40
or Salieri who produced GP jumpers and is also the sire of Anky’s Salinero
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallions/salieri.shtml
I’m not as familiar with Stedinger but he seems to have lines for both and did well in his test for jumping
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallions/Stedinger.shtml
Gracieux is a jumper sire but I find him in dressage pedigrees as well.
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallions/gracieux.shtml
Fuerst Grandios looks really interesting if you are looking for both. http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallions/fuerstgrandios.shtml
and I would give consideration to Lauries Crusador xx who is a full TB who can be found in many dressage pedigrees.
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallion.php?Lauries-Crusador-xx-662
Lots of these stallions are quite affordable and have a big enough name to sell babies as well.
Looking for a dressage sire that might throw nice jumpers I would look at Escudo I or II
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallions/escudo_i.shtml
Quarterback
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallion.php?Quaterback-42
or his palomino son Quasi Gold
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallion.php?Quasi-Gold-MD-40
or Salieri who produced GP jumpers and is also the sire of Anky’s Salinero
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallions/salieri.shtml
I’m not as familiar with Stedinger but he seems to have lines for both and did well in his test for jumping
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallions/Stedinger.shtml
Gracieux is a jumper sire but I find him in dressage pedigrees as well.
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallions/gracieux.shtml
Fuerst Grandios looks really interesting if you are looking for both. http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallions/fuerstgrandios.shtml
and I would give consideration to Lauries Crusador xx who is a full TB who can be found in many dressage pedigrees.
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallion.php?Lauries-Crusador-xx-662
Lots of these stallions are quite affordable and have a big enough name to sell babies as well.
