Towing with rear-wheel drive, a 3.50 rear end, or? (Edited)

[Blugal]

(Edited: the trucks in my OP didn’t work out. Still searching for the elusive good-used-diesel that doesn’t cost a fortune…)

Sorry for starting another towing thread! I own an older/heavier 2 horse gooseneck with weekender and under-manger storage.

Short version of my question: Pros/cons of buying a rear-wheel drive tow vehicle? What about one with a 3.50 ratio, rather than the often-advised 4.10?

Additional details:
I currently have a small budget, which means I want reliable enough, so I have focused on the older Ford 7.3Ls.

The trailer is a bit low, so some trucks with normal beds end up being too high and at risk of being hit by the gooseneck. I have had better luck towing it with flat decks. I have also not had good luck finding older F250s that fill my requirements.

Here are the specs when I took the trailer through the scales, totally loaded (coming home from a show with 2 horses) last year, towing with an F-550 dually:
steer axle 4,620#
drive axle 5,160#
trailer axle 6,120#
gross weight 15,900#

I am currently looking at two trucks, both older flat deck Ford f350 diesel duallys, within a year’s model of each other.

One has rear-wheel drive, 270k km (169k miles), is nearby and very reasonably priced. I have some questions into the owner about work that might need to be done on it. [ETA: The rear end was TOO rusty]

The other is a 4x4 with a 3.50 rear end ratio, 217k km (135k miles). 2.5 hour drive away, it’s not currently insured, so to test drive it and take it to a mechanic’s, I need to spend time and money dealing with this owner. It’s also double the price of the other one, but does come with good new tires. [ETA: I gave up on the flaky owner, not prepared to gamble my truck money on something I can’t test drive or have inspected.]

I am not currently prepared to sell the trailer so I have a wider choice of vehicles. [ETA: Ok, maybe I could sell it… but I like this trailer!]

So with all that said - your advice?

[cutter99]

You never need 4 wheel drive until you need it!

I personally will never buy a truck without 4 wheel drive for a few reasons- I very rarely have ever parked on a hard top area when towing. It is sometimes hard to get traction on just wet grass without 4 wheel drive, let alone mud or snow. I use my truck around our farm for purposes other than just towing and our farm has substantial hills. At the moment my truck is not my only vehicle, but if it were I prefer 4 wheel drive and would not want to be without it.

A 3.50 rear is not ideal for towing, but rears can also be replaced. I would check into the cost of replacing it.

[ryansgirl]

I would never buy a truck without 4WD - even if I lived in an area where it never snowed (I’m in New England where it never stops snowing so 4WD is a must). I’ve had to use it at shows on wet grass - can’t imagine not having it!

I’m not a fan of 3.50 rear gear - I’ve never had less than 3.73. My current truck is a 3.92. You do get a lower MPG with a higher rear gear but I think it’s worth going that route. My dealership told me it’s easy and not that expensive to switch it but other than that I have no idea about upgrading it.

[Alagirl]

Rear wheel drive is what the world towed with before 4x4 came around.

A little anecdote: my dad had a friend who went out hunting (not like in the US, a lot more trips into the woods required, as the grounds and animals have to be maintained)

When the men was in his late 50s, he upgraded himself from a’Thing’ to some small jeep vehicle. With 4x4.

he told my dad he was constantly getting stuck now, something that had never happened with the old vehicle with only one powered axle.
he also freely admitted, he went places with his jeep he would have stayed out of with The Thing.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Depends on how you use 4WD… with 4WD you can get into trouble twice as fast (see above).

If you drive in 2WD and get stuck, you have 4WD to fall back on to help you get out of trouble.

Me? I’d not be towing to horse-related activities without a vehicle capable of 4WD. All you need is one rain/snow storm when you are negotiating grass or dirt and you could easily be stuck…

[Tom_King]

I’d be surprised if it is really a 3:50, and not a 3:73. The 7.3 would have no problem pulling your trailer with the 3:50 though. I like having an unstuck button on the dash.

[Blugal]

Thank you all for your input!

I saw the RWD today. Unfortunately it has too much rust in the undercarriage.

[wildlifer]

Many have strong opinions (wait, we’re horse people, do we have any other kind, LOL??) about 4WD; all my vehicles had it, except for the 3/4 ton diesel surburban I drove in the late-90s (85 model)…in the OH river valley with plenty of ice & snow. 4WD is no good on ice anyway.

But it’s a personal decision, really. I got tired of the extra weight, maintenance, reduced mileage (hey, I’m poor, it adds up), & I think I turned it on twice in 10 years just to blow the dust off. So I traded for my current 2WD 2001 7.3L diesel in 2009 & haven’t missed it (& yes, I drive in snow, mud, ice, etc…when I have to, but if the roads are that crappy, I sure as heck am not going to be hauling my horses on them!). I have no problems parking in wet fields at horse trials, at my own farm (I do have a 4WD tractor there), the Sandhills, mountain trailheads, or any other places I haul my horses (it’s also my daily driver & sole vehicle)

I do heavy driving off-road (as in, there isn’t a road, I’m pushing saplings with the brush bar through vegetation taller than my truck & winching boats & trucks up & down hills of slick clay) as part of my job as a wildlife biologist, so obviously our work vehicles are all equipped with it: I have several watersheds where I won’t drive in without a winch & skid plates & never continue down those roads unless there is good tree within cable distance at all times–the 4WD alone can’t budge, even in lo, in bottomless black mud or saturated clay on our coastal plains!!!

However, that’s not where I’m hauling my horses or driving my personal vehicle. So you have to decide what your REALISTIC needs are. On a dually, the thing’s so heavy, it doesn’t much matter. All trucks are RWD until the transfer case is engaged (if it exists) anyway, but I assumed you meant 2WD.

2WD increases your tow capacity & daily mileage (less weight) & I also put aggressive, high-quality, load-rated AT tires on it, which makes a HUGE difference. If I’m parking off-road with the trailer, I just think ahead, planning my exit route, etc. My work experience does also benefit me, as there is most certainly a skillset involved, as well as plenty of handy tricks!

However, I don’t live in Canada (I ran away from winter, not towards it!) – if you are looking for something that will also be an all-season farm truck moving hay through pastures, then yes, I’d want the 4WD for that (or, if the vehicle doesn’t have the option of manually locking hubs in addition to the in-cab switch, if electronic, which loves to fail, having spent 10 yrs using the winch on my work truck, I’d just add an after-market 10k winch, as long as you also have sizeable trees or very deeply-driven fenceposts, ha).

I don’t think I actually answered anything, LOL, but hopefully some of that is useful from a self-professed truck geek (partly involuntarily, due to job – really only you can make the decision & just like buying a horse, there are many variables, nothing is perfect, but something may be perfect FOR YOU.

[Blugal]

Thanks wildlifer.

I am sort of in your camp, in that I drove a non-4x4 tow vehicle for quite a few years. I got it stuck twice, both times were when other people told me where to park (property owner at show)… and then the property owner had to get a tractor and tow me out.

I rarely drive in winter, but I guess I feel the option of 4x4 would be nice for snow and muddy fields. On the other hand, I am considering going at least a short period of time with the truck as a daily driver (not sure yet) so your other considerations are apt.

[Alagirl]

Sis wanted a 4x4 when they first came out in the 80s.

My dad’s stance was, if we need 4WD to get in, we stay out.
And usually, at a show there is a tractor to pull you out if need be.

[chism]

I’ve been towing horse trailers with a non 4WD truck for about 12 years (Chevy dually) I have NEVER gotten stuck, not even once. One caveat… I live in New England and do not tow in the winter if there is snow.
Funny enough…the only time I have gotten stuck was when I was helping the barn move with my old 4wd dually and trailer loaded with jump equipment. I got stuck in mud and had to be pulled out with a tractor.

[Beam_Me_Up]

I’ve had a '99 F350 2WD (3.73) for 10 years. Live in VA and don’t trailer in snow, but have gotten stuck in mud a few times. 1x had US Rider pull me out, at horse trials there is usually a tractor that comes around.

I would prefer 4WD, all else equal, but I got a great deal on this truck (it’s both 2WD and manual and was discounted) and I think overall it has been worth it.

[cnvh]

I’m in the 2WD group. I’d like a 4WD, but I’m mainly a recreational trail rider these days, so if the weather is so bad that I’d need 4WD, I’m not going out anyway. With that being said, I do have to exercise some caution re: where I park at shows/hunter paces/etc., and I HAVE had to unload the horses a couple times to power my way out of some slippery spots where I was directed to park by others. (Lesson learned-- park where YOU feel comfortable parking, not necessarily where someone else tells you to go.)

But with a little common sense, I think 2WD is probably OK for 90% of horse people, particularly if the 2WD vehicle is just for hauling and isn’t an all-around farm truck.

[tabula_rashah]

I’m in the camp of what’s the point of having a truck with no 4WD? I suppose if you lived in FL and never got off the pavement you’d be fine but I use 4WD a good bit even in my everyday work.

[wildlifer]

See above note about personal preference. I actually don’t even have pavement on my driveway near the house at all. It’s all grass b/c I am poor, LOL.

4WD is useful in some situations (also see above re: my job), will just get you in trouble in others, as another poster astutely noted, ha, & has its tradeoffs just like everything else.

I don’t live in FL & I pretty much never park on pavement with the trailer, so just wanted to temper that hyperbole. The point of having a truck is to safely tow my horses & meet my needs. Two decades of using 4WD has taught me when I NEED it & when I don’t, unique to my uses & capabilities. It’s not a “right or wrong” thing.

OP asked about towing specifically, hence my caveat that needs may vary if one is planning on using it as a full-time farm truck in all weather or you don’t have a 4WD tractor.

Since becoming accustomed to having a winch on the trucks at work, I think they’re an often-overlooked option too. We actually set ours up so it doesn’t have to ride around on the front of the truck all the time if you don’t want it to. A good welding shop fabricated a receiver hitch mounted on the front of the trucks & then mounted the winch itself on square tubing.

So we can carry the winch on the truck bed to save tire wear, but when needed, it can go on the front OR back of the truck, sliding in just like a normal hitch, then you can ALSO slide a ball in front of it so we can winch boats onto the trailer from 45 degree banks or we can attach trailers to the front of the truck & PUSH them as close the river as possible, then unhook & let the winch handle the work of lowering it into the water.

Sorry that’s long, but it’s really pretty cool & a pretty simple job for a good welder.

[Blugal]

Thanks again for the additional input. I am having a heck of a time finding a decent truck that is in my price range. I guess that is just life, I even increased the range quite a bit and am gulping at the thought of how much each trip will cost when I factor in insurance, maintenance etc.

Sooo… why didn’t I take up chess as a child?

[Foxtrot_s]

Keep looking for the 7.3 4x4 F250 Ford.- in this rainy climate you will not regret it when you have to haul into a field. Ours was 23 years old before we sold it. Never a minute’s anxiety.

What year was the last year that engine was made (Tom)? The engine made after that 6.0? was mess. Our son had that one and 13,000 k after the warranty was over it blew up and he was meticulous with is vehicles.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Blugal;8238700]

Sooo… why didn’t I take up chess as a child?[/QUOTE]

the fresh air…

[Blugal]

Still checking out 7.3L trucks, good ones are like unicorns though.

Also trying the 5.9L Cummins Dodges (pre-new-emissions standards, similar idea to the Ford 7.3s)

Also venturing into Duramax/Allisons, but not sure which to focus on yet. So much research, so little time…

[NancyM]

Well my friend, the hubby says, “STAY AWAY FROM FORD DIESELS”. He feels strongly about this. The injectors cost $1000 each to replace. Found On Road Dead.

An older Dodge Cummins motor (the injectors cost $100 each to replace) is what you need. A one ton flat deck. Or buy used cab and chassis, and have your own deck built for it. The engine will run for a million miles. The rest of the truck will fall apart long before the engine dies. A standard transmission is probably the best plan for towing, though mine is an automatic and it’s nice. A “heavy duty” front end is also available, mine has this (I don’t really know what that means, or what advantages it gives, but have been told that was a good thing that I got it at the time).

As you know, mine is 2 wheel drive. It’s old now, a 97. I live with the lack of 4 wheel drive, much to my hubby’s dismay. It isn’t licenced in the winter, gets parked now that I live in a place where there IS winter. It is horrific in the snow. But would be better with chains I suppose. Good luck with your search. Call my hubby, he likes looking for trucks for friends that he would like to be buying for himself, for his collection. His 93 Dodge Cummins has close to 500,000 on it now, and purrs like a kitten.