Toxic relationship with family/dealing

Uhoh, I did a LOT of swearing during a project this past weekend. But I’m single and female, so :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Also was not swearing at any person, just the situation which was way more difficult and nasty than anticipated. Also did not yell, scream or throw anything :sweat_smile:

But, oh yes, to your actual point. If working with tools causes that big a meltdown, it’s time to grow up and hire someone instead of DIY. But, sadly, for a lot of half-baked men, that is somehow a relinquishment of manliness :roll_eyes:

I stuck to it and did not attend Fathers day gathering. It was very difficult and I ended up ghosting mom and sister until the very last min. I told sister the truth as to why I was not coming the day before. I was just evasive to mom. Like gas prices or something (but it’s fathers day you know. oh I had no idea) So now mom thinks something is terribly wrong in my life like I have a legal problem or something (legal problem, seriously, come on) so I finally told her in an email why I did not come. I sent it this morning. I am afraid to check reply so I don’t know what her reaction is.

This thread was helpful for me to work through this and get to a point I can move forward from. Otherwise I would have attended father day gathering, because who doesn’t celebrate fathers day??? and nothing good would have come from that because I am angry and would have still felt completely confused and unheard. I would still be stuck in a hell loop (Lucifer reference for fans lol)

Thank You: you–> every single person who contributed on this thread and provided support. You made a difference in my life and I really so appreciate it. I am humbled but also bolstered.

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That is a great step!!

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There’s a style of online behavior that’s called a Concern Troll. It’s someone that tries to aggravate the OP by expressing fake or overdone sympathy where it’s not really warranted.

I feel like your mother’s response here is of that category and also that I’ve experienced that myself with relatives.

Trust me, your mother knows exactly why you didn’t visit. This is her toxic way of getting back at you. Note that she did not assume the most common reason people bail on events these days, which is a respiratory infection that might or might not be Covid 19.

No, it must be you are in jail or hiding from the police. She’s taken the thing you’d find most implausible and even offensive, something that brings you down to their level maybe, and then makes your sister listen to this rubbish. So that you need to make contact to refute the slur or soothe her worry.

Now it’s also true that older women in dysfunctional marriages often have a lot of free floating anxiety, and if say an adult child is running half an hour late (pre cellphones) they can end up catastrophizing that they must be dead in a car accident and its time to call the hospital. But it’s also true that a lot of such behavior is performance designed to make its way back to the Bad Child. You made mom so worried by being late, etc.

My experience was nothing like yours in terms of sheer awfulness. But I was the designated Good Child and I spent my adult life doing my best not to compound or encourage the scapegoating of the designated Bad Child. It never ever ends. Wait until they start getting a bit batty in extreme old age. Then the scapegoating will get truly bizarre.

IME in these situations you become the Bad Child by having an emotional vulnerability and human decency and honesty that upsets the cart of lies, avoidance, delusion and denial that keeps the toxic family together. You become and remain the Good Child by participating in the delusion or by going grey rock and refusing to give enough emotionally to be pulled into the vortex.

The Bad Child makes the family uneasy with their emotional honesty. Because the family feels attacked, they therefore decide that the Bad Child is doing all this to attack and hurt them because, well, Bad Child. From that they can spin all kinds of fantasies about what a Bad Child might also be doing. Every good and honest action or impulse or accomplishment of the Bad Child can be turned on its head and made to seem negative.

Punishing the Bad Child in some way becomes a way for the family to expel the threat and be self righteous in their own delusions.

Oh, and wanting to be loved and accepted by the family can be enough to make you the Bad Child. They have no love to give you. When you ask, you reveal that gap in them. So you need to be punished for wanting to be loved.

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Scribbler, Wow, that is really insightful. Thank you .

you can actually point out that mom suggested Zebras ( legal issues whatever) rather than a common old horse. That flew right over my awareness .

and to the OP I gave up on Fathers Day long before my father passed from the world. Essentially left him high and dry. He claimed to not understand why his kids did not like him when the reality was that he was glad to take but never gave.

It was always a one way street.

I took a detour

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Great job @trainer_Xalter!

For the record, you owe no one an explanation for not going to some party/gathering.

A simple ‘no thank you’ is more than enough. Let them guess why you are not coming. It truly is none of their business why you did not go.

I like to give stupid reasons when someone will not let things go, and make sure I give them with all the sincerity of something very serious. “I really have to cut my toe nails. They are over due. That is not something one can just ignore. Sorry, not going to make it.”

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Well, nail/head, this is all so familiar. I am aware that my sister has her own problems, being Good child in that house can’t be a picnic either. Thanks for sharing that, Scribbler.

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Also keep in mind that despite the pain, you are way more healthy emotionally than your family. Pain isn’t fun but it can be a sign of growth if you let it guide you. It’s hard in your teens and early 20s to be sure what’s you and what’s your family. There’s so much cultural BS about “Your parents are actually right and you’ll appreciate that when you’re older.”

But when you come back at 40 as a competent enough adult and you are still the scapegoat and you can see the toxicity, you need to trust your gut and put in some distance.

And you need to really trust that you are doing this from a position of being more emotionally evolved than your family. Of course they are going to attack you for that.

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2nding all the wonderful advice and congrats from above and adding do NOT open that email from your mother. Put it straight in your delete bin. It is far too easy to get sucked back in when the email asks you to explain yourself.

No explanation you can come up with will be sufficient. No explanation will change anything. No explanation will accomplish anything but keeping the lines of communication open which leaves the ball in their court.

Put that nasty spiked, venomous ball in the garbage.

And again, congrats for saying no to being used as their whipping boy because “father’s day.” Your strength and determination are greater than you think they are.

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This is good advice. I know for me if I were to open and read it, I would waste a lot of mental energy on whatever was inside it wouldn’t be worth it.

The more you ignore them, the more likely they may try extra hard to bait you back into engaging as well, I have seen that happen before. I imagine that the Concern Troll behavior could turn into Angry Troll once they realize it’s not working. Be strong!!

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Ideally I’d like to maintain an arm’s length relationship while I work on letting their shenanigans roll off/duck’s back.

Sister was neutral-supportive if we can use D&D things to describe. The things she verbalized to me about mom always trying to suck her in were what Scribbles described the Good child experience to be. I think that’s why she is silent, she is trying not to participate. She has told me in the past that any strong displays of emotion make her extremely uncomfortable. Aka dad, basically. She asked 3x over a couple weeks what was wrong with me, which I denied and evaded before I told her the truth. In all honesty I don’t blame my sister for not defending me. It should never have had to be her job.

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Yes, she has coped with the situation by shutting down around the family. I hope for her sake she has friends, family, partner, of her own where she can be more open and relaxed.

People who who have watched all displays of emotion to end in screaming, violence, tears, understandably get very anxious and avoidant about people displaying emotion. If you are 8 you go to your room and hide until the screaming stops and are in terror you are going to be the next target. If you are an adult you just go grey rock, which is a fantastic term that pop psychologists use to describe how to deal with malignant narcissists.

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My grandmother would send the most dreadful poison pen letters (she was the Queen of PP) and my mother would insist on opening them and of course they made her very upset. I kept telling her to toss them or send them back marked “refused.” Of course, she would not so I would take them from her hand in the PO and toss them. Why would you subject yourself to that? Of course she decided to inherit that title from her mother but I would just toss those, too. Not going to participate in your little hate fest and pity party.

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When you are out of the toxic bubble you realize how differently people speak to each other in toxic vs non toxic situations.
Its the difference between “you look rough” and “good morning, how did you sleep?”

My dad greeted me with the “you look like sh.it” comment this weekend and it made my skin crawl and i packed my bags and left.

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I woujd say something like “well I guess that apple didn’t fall far from the tree did it?”

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Coincidentally I’ve hit a deep streak of YouTube videos on narcissist parents, done by clinical psychologists. The primary one doesn’t let you link her, but they are easy to find. It seems to be a major pop psychology topic these days along with borderline personality disorder and atypical neurosystems (autism spectrum). 20 years ago it was depression. When I was a teen in the 1970s the big pop psychology topics were schizophrenia (psychedelic drugs also spiked this topic in the 1960s, individuation from parents and still a subcurrent of “know thyself” from the existentialist movement.

So pop psych info comes in cycles. Anyhow there is information on narcissist parents that didn’t exist 40 years ago. I expect OP is well aware of these, but they can also be very validating even if you know generally.

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I haven’t read all the responses, but I will say this: you don’t need to rectify, correct, relive, or replay the past to enable some sort of better outcome.

You won’t get it.

I’d read the Out of the Fog website. You are surrounded by not good family. Make family elsewhere. Tell your father point blank he was an abuser, don’t couch it in “well I was an OK kid” He’s a fking narcissist and a bully.

I’d probably spit in his eye. And as far as your sister, tell her: you were complicit, betch.

Wrest yourself from trying to have something that won’t happen.

Trust me. I know what you are talking about. Do yourself a favor, move away, or make 2 hours seem like 20. Let them betch. Block them on the phone, the socials, etc.

Here’s a spoiler: your dad will never accept responsibility, nor will the rest of your family. Ask yourself how this is helping you. It sounds like hell.

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I understand your guilt regarding not protecting your dog. I totally get that. That alone would be a good reason to cut-off contact. Seems that in the confines of your relationship with that family of yours, you are unable to require them leaving their dog away?

I just don’t know what else is left besides removing yourself from them. I would tell them all in advance: I need to not see you, Mom, or Dad, or sister(s) for 6 months. That means no visits, and also no phonecalls. NO email, no texts. I need space.
Then go about making it so. I agree about changing the locks on your doors. I’d block their numbers and email addresses so you wouldn’t even know when they try to contact. And for sure i would stay away from anywhere you could run into them.

Meanwhile…during those 6 months, find a therapist and go see her. Regularly.

Resist the urge to give-in.

Cold-turkey your family encounters and see how you feel in six months. Not talking about a forever deal…just 6 months.

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Love this so much. Same situation here … he always took but rarely gave (and when he did, there were always strings attached). We parted ways two years ago, and I’m not at all sad about it.

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You say you have love for your family. I ask you why. Why do you love people who are physically and emotionally abusive?

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