This is what she is attempting to do. I do not know if it is working as I am seeing no difference in her under saddle. Then again, there wasn’t a problem to begin with. With the GP trainer I immediately saw an improvement.
Just hard to muddle through the crap and the legitimacy with the trainer shingle system. Still getting to know this business. Only owned for 3 years and horse has only been in training with a pro - or "pro"s - for a year.
“But I am afraid now the trainer doesn’t want to let us go…”
Client/trainer manager/boarder relationships can great, but when they are not, it can be like watching (or living) an episode of Dynasty. IMHO you are being jerked around, and till now you are not standing up for your own interests. I feel I can say this because I’ve been there, and I’ve had one or two learning experiences as a boarder that looking back, I wish I’d been more decisive and clear in my expectations.
It’s a business relationship. You are in control. From what you have described, this is a loser situation. Find somewhere else. This trainer is not your family, you’re not indentured. s/he is a professional you have hired, and easy come easy go.
Best of luck!
Thank you stacey. I was also guilted into staying with the last trainer. Took a lot to get them to let me go in peace and it was not a great break. I would just like my wishes to be respected. I hate when they create drama over a business transaction. You are right - we aren’t friends. But dropping a trainer doesn’t seem to be the same as dropping your internet provider - it’s messier than that.
I am confused. You say that GP lady has ridden 4 levels higher than prima donna trainer? Does that mean that prima donna trainer has never ridden/showed higher than 3rd or 4th level? I understand that some people are better at teaching than they are at riding, but still… From what you say, the trainer may well be afraid of horses who are not push button.
If that is true, then that alone is worth leaving. Anyone who is not comfortable with a horse will communicate her nerves to the horse and the relationship can only go down from there.
Time to make a change.
OP, you have not been able to sustain a productive relationship with any trainer or coach so far.
This suggests a few things to me.
You are not selecting good trainers. That could be either because you are shopping for a bargain, or because you can’t evaluate the quality of the trainer.
There are two aspects to trainer quality.
One is, can the person actually effectively ride and train? Do they have the equestrian skills?
The other aspect is, does this person have the work ethic and time management skills to be in the business of training? Will they actually put the hours in?
Without both, you will have poor results.
It also seems to seem that you repeatedly end up with trainers that over promise and under deliver. It seems like you are particularly susceptible to a good sales job or snow job, and not able to sit down and discuss things with the trainer.
It might also be that you have inflated hopes of what a trainer can do for you and your horse. You’re I believe an intermediate level rider with no strong foundation in any particular discipline, and you have an OTTB mare that has ongoing hind end problems, and is continually lame or NQR to some degree.
No trainer is going to be able to change that substantially, and realistically you are unlikely to get high performance in any discipline from your horse. Therefore any trainer who promises you the moon is by definition giving you a snow job and is going to disappoint you sooner rather than later.
Your history of posts doesn’t suggest an analytical approach to things but more impulsive behavior and then worrying and second guessing and making another big change.
Anyhow, a big part of evaluating what a trainer can do is watching what they do and seeing how it matches up to what they say. Same as every other aspect of life. The bigger the gap, the bigger the fake.
Good post Scribbler. I extracted part of it. I don’t know the OP’s horse or the trainers. It has been my experience that many trainers only want to work with a certain quality of horse and dedicated riders with talent. If you go to a training barn, and you and/or your horse are not comparable to most others there, chances are you are not going to get the attention you are paying for. It sounds like current trainer doesn’t really like your horse for whatever reason. However, she would rather work herself with the horse than give you a second lesson because it is easier for her. Riding a horse is easier than standing teaching someone else.
It’s also possible OP is not being entirely clear in describing their own abilities, horse, and goals in the trainer shopping process.
A trainer that inflates their ability and a rider that does the same can create a meeting of minds and a true honey moon period … until they actually have to work with the horse, and disillusionment sets in.
sorry but I am shocked… The trainer told you to inject the stifles although the vet said it wasn’t necessary… I hope you are aware that any kind of injecting will damage the joint in the long run… Ok if its really necessary you need to do it but otherwise not… I would not stay with this trainer for one day… Whatever amazing environment she might have… your poor horse 
This smells like Eau de Ripoff Artist to me. Time to flush this trainer. She can’t give clear signals to a client other than “of course you can pay me!” No wonder the horse can’t deal with her.
Maybe I missed something here, OP, but are YOU regularly riding the horse? It seems like you have a good idea of what makes her tick (MARES, am I right? :D).
If you are comfortable challenging yourself, maybe ask the Grand Prix trainer for recommendations for clinicians you can work with on a regular basis? A weekend’s worth of quality clinic time with a good instructor may be a good option. Do the clinic, get your ass kicked, get homework to tackle on your own, then check in again the next time the clinician travels through town. Of course, this is assuming you live in a region where good clinicians regularly visit…
@lordhelpus, This trainer has shown up to prix st george. So she’s shown 3 levels below the grand prix trainer. She has a monopoly on the barn. In my area we do not have many barns that are exclusively training barns. They are big barns with hundreds of horses that usually have between 2-10 trainers boarders can choose from. Training barns are located far away from me and like scribbler said, I do not feel comfortable putting my horse somewhere I cannot manage and watch over her care and treatment.
@Scribbler, I am also highly highly suspicious of professionals in general. be it trainers, farriers, chiropractors, acupuncturists, even vets. The list goes on. Anyone can hang a shingle for anything. Just because you went to school for something doesn’t mean you are anymore qualified than someone who cures diseases out in the plains of Africa with mud, bark, and herbal medicine. Sometimes I have found these people know less.
But I also believe, Scribbler, we can learn a lot from others. I believe the podunk trainer is as valuable as the BNT. Lessons can be learned everywhere, anywhere, by anybody. Doesn’t require big $$$, and that is my point. I have learned over quite a few posts and replies there is literally nothing I can say to change your mind about me. Which is not my problem. I am going to stop trying and I would appreciate if you stop dragging my name through the dirt. You try so hard to disenchant me. Kind of odd you are putting so much effort into crushing a young person’s dreams who loves her horse…
I move to a barn for BOARDING FIRST, training second. This is the trainer that happens to be at this barn. The Barn has created a monopoly by limiting outside trainers. If everyone likes her, is SHE wrong or are THEY wrong? How can she sham over 50 clients? Either everyone drank the kool aid or I am a special case.
@Sunsets, we have one clinician who comes. Again I am reminding everyone this is a large commercial barn with over 100 horses and the management has set up a situation where this trainer is the only choice boarders have. We have two other trainers but they are jumpers. My GP trainer was approved by management but long before I came to the barn. The barn area I am at is the only full service barn. There are 5 other “barns” thatoffer stalls but they are all self care.
the one clinician is also a GP rider with a LOT of experience but is a ray hunt/Tom Dorrance disciple. This trainer does not believe in the traditional German training scale and does not support bringing in outside clinicians who do.
She does not ride it. She lunges it. Round pens it. She won’t ride her. She is too nervous.
i can do a lot of this by myself. I am paying someone for experience I don’t have. I know how to round pen. This is ridiculous.
That is from another one of OP’s thread that shows the horse has been uneven for quite some time, had some time off and could, as stated by the OP, barely canter.
she’s always been stronger on the right than the left.
my mare was still not pushing off on the right hind. Vet said she has a “sloppy stifle/weak stifle/loose stifle,”(…)
She(vet) told me injections would help horse feel safe to use the leg.
She (mare) went from training second level and novice eventing to barely able to canter in 6 weeks…
There was an issue and I hardly fail to see how injecting the weak stifle could be detrimental at this point.
You realized horses and humans have benefited from the medecine development? This injection won’t do any damage to the joint that’s not already done.
Here something for the OP to read : https://dressagetoday.com/horse-health-/managing-horses-joints-injections-54539
Why do you say you have limited experience?
great article, quoting mostly a vet who makes a living from injecting joints… No I don’t realize that horses and humans have benefited from selling joint injections for nearly every horse… Pharma companies and vets have though…
If your GP friend is happy to ride your horse why don’t you pay her instead.
If you are there all the time why not pay for more lessons?
Why do you want the trainer to ride her?
Have lessons and learn to go up the levels yourself. It may seem the slow way. In the end it is the best and shorter way.
If she is lunging correctly you will see a difference in your horse even if she is not being ridden. It would be better for you to learn how to lunge properly yourself. Then do it yourself and don’t pay for the trainer to do that.
If your horse is not completely sound do not lunge or ride properly it will make the lameness worse.
This trainer is actively working with over 50 clients!? No wonder she can only be supportive for minutes at a time. Might partially explain the roundpenning too…quicker than tacking up, riding, and untacking.
As for only doing what she’s paid to do… first of all, she isn’t because she’s not riding your horse. Second of all, I don’t expect professionals to do more than I pay them for. It’s nice to be friendly with your trainer but better to have a sound business relationship. (Unfortunately it sounds like you have neither.)
What is your hesitation in dropping this trainer and riding with the GP trainer exclusively? You seem to get much more from her. Hope it lasts.
OP I think a requirement for your next boarding barn is you should be allowed to bring in any trainer of your choosing, assuming they are insured. I myself have been in situations where I was only allowed to use onsite trainers and it never really worked out. I’ve decided for myself and my own horses that we will never be in a training barn ever again because I think onsite trainer ends up having way more leverage over their clients and horse care than they ought to have.
As for whether the trainer has the owner of your 100-horse facility fooled, or you just being wrong, in my experience the people who own and make those kinds of decisions for big commercial barns like that are seldom riders and seldom in touch with what good, effective training is. So they may have no clue, and for insurance purposes, they probably love that she is timid and likes to do ground work.
And if half of those 100 horses are in some type of program, she is probably spread pretty thin. That’s A LOT of clients to have on your plate at once. You GP trainer says she has changed somewhat recently, and that’s probably why. And if she has 50 clients in one barn, I’m can see why problematic horses aren’t her priority.
As for horses who shut down, that is dangerous. Spooking to leave the situation is not okay. In another comment you said that your mare reacts strongly if you ask her to do something that she isn’t physically comfortable doing. Since there is a clear difference between something being challenging and something being physically painful to perform, this puzzles me. In well structured training programs, a horse is never asked to perform any movements that it is not physically ready to do. So, either the mare is truly in pain, in which case medical intervention is needed, or your mare is not the angel you think she is. We have a horse that I don’t gel with, but I never feel like I am in danger when I ride him and he never does anything kniving that would make me nervous. When I get on, and we never connect, and I figure my time with him would be better spent brushing his long, flowy, ready-for-Hollywood mane and tail. Don’t know what it is, but after years of knowing this horse and being around him every day, I still don’t feel the love. And that’s okay.
I understand why people who like ground work may think, “this horse needs more ground work” but I also know that isn’t always the case. You also can’t fault the trainer for thinking that perhaps your mare’s behavior is a response to discomfort that isn’t easily detectable to the human eye. Lots of behavioral problems are treated as such, but actually have a related, underlying physical issue.
But if it truly is the case that your mare only acts like that for this trainer then it is your responsibility to get your mare out of there because the trainer has too much pride to admit she and the horse don’t gel.
The big problem with going out into horses or indeed life distrusting all professionals is that it makes it impossible to distinguish between the good ones and the mediocre or poor ones.
You need to develop enough of your own knowledge base to be able to determine if the professional in question is competent and if you like their general philosophy.
If you go into things distrusting trainers, vets, farriers, etc on principle and when you disagree with them, your first reaction is they are cheating you, then you are just going to run in circles.
Moreover, the better quality trainers, vets, and farriers will not really want you as a client, and will bounce you over to lower quality ones.
Anyhow, if your default position is that anyone who knows more than you and charges for their knowledge must be a fraud, well, life has a way of fulfilling your expectations.
Maybe she’s just not that into you and your horse? If she has many clients, she may just choose favorites and focus on those. Is that right? Not necessarily, but it happens. I, myself, rather ride the spooky Andalusian than a horse that shuts down, kicks out, and/or bucks. Personal preference. She may also be more into “polishing up” a horse rather than dealing with those that have deep rooted problems.
I think she’s just not feelin’ it. She should be more direct about it, but maybe she feels awkward, I don’t know. Are the lessons productive? If you say that you know this horse so well and have this bond that makes her so good for you, just take lessons. As much as you can with a good trainer. That may bring you further in the long run than half-assed training.
Going around in circles is also not good for weak stifles. I’d ditch the training with this trainer.
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