Trainer says I'm ready for my first horse, but I have doubts

[paw]

Good plan to ask the trainer about finding you a (already stateside) lease. At your expressed level, you’re yet a ways away from needing a 3’+ packer. Expect sticker shock, though - when I was leasing out my Steady Eddie several years ago, he was leasing for $25k/year. He was a good deal - confidence-building and super sound - but not cheap. OTOH, a known quantity, which an import you might “depreciate” wouldn’t be.

So, plan A: lease something that’s known for bringing folks up the ranks; plan B: look for a barn that will help you with plan A.

[trakehners]

I agree with most of what has been said here. There are no lesson horses in my trainer’s barn, and the only people who ride with her and don’t own their own are long-time clients who are between horses at the moment. All of us are required to be “in the program” to some degree, but she never pushes training rides or more than one lesson a week or anything like that. She also would never tell any of us to buy a horse that suits what she wants rather than what we need.

IMO, a lot of the grumbling about beginners buying horses has to do with the fact that people with deep pockets end up with trainers who don’t have their best interests at heart, and those same people haven’t been around long enough to be able to recognize that, so they end up over-horsed and out a lot of money for something that isn’t what they need to continue learning. It’s not so much about the beginners buying horses as it is the constantly-repeated story of trainers setting up beginners to buy unsuitable horses.

At the stage you’re at, I’d be looking for a been there, done that, can take a joke type, but it doesn’t need to be able to jump the moon (and absolutely can be a lease). Something that can take you from crossrails to comfortably doing 2’6” would be plenty at this point. The hard part is all the stuff that comes between the fences, and you don’t need to (and really shouldn’t) be jumping high or trying to rush that process while you’re learning those things. I sat on a retired 1.40m jumper for the first time when I was twenty-one (after I’d been riding for thirteen years) and he taught me a heck of a lot, but that’s because I had ridden enough to be able to take advantage of his buttons. He was a sweetheart but he was way too much horse for the beginner riders because he was almost too trained for them. You don’t need that right now.

FWIW, I don’t think anyone is ever ready or knows enough when they get their first horse. I had been riding for fourteen years and had previously had two leases when I bought my horse, with even more years of swallowing all the info from every horse-related book I could find before that, and every day of the last five years of owning him has still been a learning experience for me. The biggest challenge of horse ownership is being willing to admit that you don’t know what you don’t know, and finding someone who will teach you those things without looking out for themselves first. It sounds like you’ve got the first part of that down already, so you’re off to a great start on that front.

[RedHorses]

Your trainer isn’t looking out for your best interests. You will become her cash cow if you let her talk you into this schoolmaster from Europe plan. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if she came to you and suggested other students ride your horse in lessons “to be sure he can take a less than skilled rider’s mistakes.” And it will be okay for him to do a couple of lessons/rides a day, several days a week so you won’t miss out on riding him…

Find a lesson barn that will teach you to jump. Even if it’s just 2-2’ 6" tiny jumps. You should already be jumping before you buy a horse to jump. One of the pre purchase things to check is your comfort and confidence jumping the horse.

Anyone remember that thread by a mom wanting to know about supporting her daughter’s progress in the H/J world? There was lots of good advice and things to look out for that might benefit this poster. Commissions, vet pre purchase exams, hidden costs and ways trainers will take advantage of the client’s lack of knowledge.

[RedHorses]

And there it was at the bottom of the Suggested Topics list!

Newbie Advice Needed - Daughter wants to do more in Hunter/Jumper

Hi, first post here. My oldest daughter is about to turn 11 and equestrian is her life. She has been riding for around 5-years now and competed the past 2-3 years in various Hunter classes locally. She is a gifted rider who usually excels well beyond her age and has won many of the shows she has entered. She is passionate, driven, and dedicated. In addition to riding 2x per week (which is the max her barn will allow right now), she also excels at school and does crossfit workouts with us mu…

[dmveventer]

@trakehners

FWIW, I don’t think anyone is ever ready or knows enough when they get their first horse. I had been riding for fourteen years and had previously had two leases when I bought my horse, with even more years of swallowing all the info from every horse-related book I could find before that, and every day of the last five years of owning him has still been a learning experience for me.

I think both of these things can be true. No one is ever 100% ready, and even the most experienced riders will always have new things to learn. BUT having several years of riding (and ideally leasing) experience and exposure to different programs is critical to giving someone a good baseline for a) recognizing what they do not know, and b) figuring out which professionals to trust to help fill those gaps. For someone newer to horses it’s almost impossible to discern the difference between legitimate advice and someone trying to take advantage - you don’t know what you don’t know - and the pressure to do right by your horse can make it hard to push back when professionals are telling you to do something. That’s not to say that it can’t be done, but people buying earlier in their riding careers will be at a disadvantage, and will have to be even more vigilant about doing their own research and getting multiple opinions to sift through all the noise. Look at all the threads we’ve had here about non-horsey parents getting taken advantage of or riders who don’t even realize how many red flags their trainer gives off because that’s all they know.

[thereadinghorse]

I don’t think you should buy a horse atm. Not, that you can’t do it or anything, but after riding for a year you’re still beginner, as you said before and you would profit more form riding different horses. And you certainly don’t need a 1,10 schoolmaster from europe.

Just to give some insight: I’m riding since birth, owning horses the most part of my life. I’m jumping for ages. (I’m 29). I bought my current horse 10 years ago, before that I had some lease horses but not so much lessons, cause the leases weren’t owned by ambitious owners and so there wasn’t much possibility to ride lessons with them. That’s a huge part of the reason why I bought my mare 10 years ago. But I had been taking lessons many years and additionally was a rider even before I could walk properly. So I think, I might consider myself as advanced. (Before the leases I had my own set of 6 ponys which I was happily hacking)

After a few years of breaking my mare in and some sh*t and stuff that happend, I started jumping with this particular horse in 2017. And to this day I haven’t jumped any higher than 1,15 or 1,20 ever. I do shows at low levels (E and A, 80 to 100cm classes, german system) and I do event at the same level. So I have quite a bit of expierence under my belt.

What I want to say is: Even I would be perfectly fine with a 1,10m schoolmaster, as I’m not doing anything atm that would need a better horse. And I’m literally riding for close to 30 years. Of course, I may not be the most talented rider on the planet and my improvements are slow and I might very well be, that you are a much more gifted person and will advance to 1,10m in a few years. But still this doesn’t require a 1,10m schoolmaster NOW.

And I want to add a second perspective: You never jumped until now. So you really don’t even know, if jumping will be fun to you. Or if you are talented in it. Of course nobody needs much talent to jump a few crossrails, but it certainly takes a bit of courage to ride against higher jumps and you need a bit of an eye for this. I know many very expierenced riders, that don’t jump or jump not much more than 50cm, because they don’t feel comfortable doing bigger things.

And in addition to that you don’t really know right now, which kind of horse suits you best. How many different horses have you been riding since you started. I recommend riding as many as you can get a hold of. Because horse vary greatly in their type and how the ride. So when buying your OWN horse, you should at least have some idea about what kind of horse you like. And considering jumping you should at least know, which kind of jumper suits you best. Horses do jump differently and there are some, that I can’t stand riding, because they don’t give me a good/safe/satisfying feeling.

So as a conclusion: I don’t think buying a horse atm is the best choice for you. I would recommend leasing horse or look for a barn, that has a variety of school horses, so you can advance your skills and get more input on which kind of horses you like

[clanter]

@dmveventer

For someone newer to horses it’s almost impossible to discern the difference between legitimate advice and someone trying to take advantage - you don’t know what you don’t know - and the pressure to do right by your

often That pressure is from within as the person really wants to do this correctly.

Normally time is needed for a person to understand what they are being told is correct or not. The problem often is wanting it now, not having the patience to learn just what is going on and that rush to success becomes the downfall

[Amberley]

@CBoylen

@carrotgirl

However I’m still a novice rider, I can w/t/c with and without stirrups, sit trot, count strides, feel wrong canter leads (but can’t do flying change) hand gallop, etc. but I haven’t even started jumping cross rails yet. I can’t ride with steady contact yet or get my lesson horse round.

The order of things here makes me wonder if there are any lesson horses capable of teaching a beginner to jump. Generally, pop a xrail comes after w/t. That being said, most lesson horses aren’t going to be teaching you a flying change or flatting on contact, so if those are your next steps your own horse is probably necessary. Look around you. Are you the most advanced student still on a lesson horse? Has anyone else moved from the lesson program to horse ownership?

This is a typical way to learn to ride in Europe and I know people in the US teach this way too, When these riders do start jumping they are able to immediately move past cross rails because they are already competent riders on the flat and they can ride a nicer horse; it’s not atypical for them to be jumping around a .9m - 1.0m course quickly. From OPs description I wonder if their trainer is from Europe or trained there.

Having said that OP- if I were you I’d have a strong preference to lease something already in the USA for a year before buying because it sounds like you main goal is more saddle time and learning to jump. You really need a horse you feel comfortable riding at home when everyone else is out showing and if a lease horse isn’t working out it’s a lot easier to give them back and to sell an imported horse.

Now if you told your trainer “I want to make it to GP jumpers in 5 years and I’m willing to commit” then importing a nice school master and keeping it in full training is an entirely reasonable way to advance that goal if you can afford it. I know plenty of people who stay in full training permanently in the jumper and dressage worlds. It’s less common in the hunter and eventing worlds where people tend to take lessons and ride alone more often.

[Willesdon]

May I suggest something slightly out of the box? Go on a riding vacation (possibly in Europe, even) where you sit on a horse for hours a day, cross varied terrain, stare at the views and get to know a horse for longer than lessons x3 around an arena. It will give you A) a fantastic experience, B) a point of view outside the small, small world of hunters, C) a yardstick against which to measure any future horse you may decide to purchase. This, I believe, is the human equivalent of the “wet blanket” for horses. A week on a horse tends to make people more relaxed and comfortable in the saddle and can be a massive boost in confidence.

[aregard]

@carrotgirl

In response to those above, the only other horses at the barn are too advanced for me or are other people’s investment horses so I will ask my instructor about finding a lease for me! We’ve talked about it before. A stranger horse to move to my current barn if possible.

An alternative: She could buy a second lesson horse and you could half lease that. That would give both of you flexibility, and the ongoing costs are shared.

[Janet]

Can you tell me WHERE in NY you are? I know a good pro in NY who could, at a minimum, give you a good perspective your situation (we have been friends over 50 years). Feel free to PM me.

[gradytb]

Oh that’s great! I just maybe read it weird. Wasn’t trying to throw shade on it! Good luck finding the best horse for you right now!

[NancyM]

There are sensible, calm, forgiving, adequately sound, friendly, adequately trained and adequately safe horses who aren’t going to the Olympics but can do walk, trot, canter and hop over some small jumps at home and at some local schooling shows, for a person to have fun on and learn lots, right here in North America, available for sale or lease. But the trainer who is involved in finding one for you doesn’t get as much of a commission as they would with something imported. If you are made of money, by all means don’t worry about this. But it is endemic in the world of “professional” horsemen. Things cost money, but there is little point in being treated like a milk cow.

If you want to do this, excellent!! Good on ya!!! But trust no one. There’s a good reason why ‘horse traders’ come with an age old tradition of taking advantage of clients. Be involved personally. BE there to look at the horses, ride the horses who are being suggested as your mount. BE THERE for any vetting that takes place. Talk to the vet yourself, don’t just take someone else’s word for anything. By BEING there and being involved throughout the entire process, you LEARN a lot.
Look at lots of horses before both you and your instructor make a final decision about what you might like to proceed to being serious with a purchase. And yes, you can go and look at horses without your instructor if you wish, even if you are green. Don’t buy without the instructor’s involvement, but go and look. Develop your eye, get some experience, form some opinions. Because that’s how you learn. If you see something that you think looks grand, bring your instructor in for another more experienced opinion. If your instructor is not game for this, there may be a reason why… which gets back to the milk cow situation.
If you are going to be a horseman, you will not be green forever. This is your first true excursion into actually becoming a horseman rather than just a client on a school horse. Step up, and begin your education.

Or, if you would rather remain a client on a school horse at least for now, don’t get pushed into doing something that is not your idea, and not what you truly want.

Good luck!!!

[trakehners]

I’m in complete agreement with everything you said, was mostly just throwing that out there to say that you (general) can get really far along but the experience of owning a horse is full of things that you never think of until you have one that you’re 100% responsible for, so it doesn’t mean you failed if you did all the things before buying like leasing/working in a barn/etc. (and are basically “qualified” to own your own horse) and still have those moments where you feel like you don’t know what you’re doing or weren’t ready.

I, for example, felt like an idiot the first time my horse had an abscess and I didn’t already have abscess supplies in my tack trunk because I just hadn’t thought of it til that moment. Same thing with most of the contents of my horsey first aid kit and the horse clothing-specific sewing kit that lives in my locker with heavy duty thread and needles meant for nylon. It’s just all the little things that add up and finally explain why horse people end up with so much seemingly-pointless stuff lying around

[clanter]

@trakehners

and finally explain why horse people end up with so much seemingly-pointless stuff lying around

and have the back up of the rarely needed item setting around also that become lost only to be found after purchasing a replacement so then there are several extras

setting on the shelf are three fence chargers just in case the one that was bought in 1994 fails… it is still working even though it had a lightening strike within ten feet. The others were bought as “The” replacement of the working one but then became lost in the storage so now there are three

[mmeqcenter]

@CBoylen

The order of things here makes me wonder if there are any lesson horses capable of teaching a beginner to jump. Generally, pop a xrail comes after w/t.

Why on earth would someone pop a xrail before learning to canter? Any program that regularly teaches in that order is quite unsafe, IMO. Unless maybe by “xrail” you mean one so small it’s more of a cavaletti.
Growing up, my instructors required that beginners were able to steer confidently at WTC, and able to WT without stirrups, before starting to jump. And that is what I require when I have a student.

[mmeqcenter]

@carrotgirl

She goes out to europe occasionally to buy younger horses to bring home to train. She says she can look for an experienced older horse for me, a 1.10 schoolmaster essentially, to teach me the ropes and show for a few years then resell (or keep) once he hits his max height. I told her I’m very worried about “ruining” my horse, since I’m still in the beginning stages. She says there is no doubt I would depreciate my horse, so to help keep him sharp I should sign him up for training rides several days a week. She says having my own horse would advance my riding at a much faster rate than lesson horses would.

Having your own horse can help you advance your riding at a faster rate, yes, in addition to learning many more aspects of horse care you have likely not been exposed to. All great things to improve your horsemanship.
However, specifically in regard to riding, one major way having your own horse helps along your riding faster is because you get to ride more often. If you’re already riding 3x a week, how exactly would your own horse help you ride more if it needs to have training rides several days a week?

Sounds more like her sole lesson horse has reached its weekly rides limit and she wants to make room for another student, which is fine. Or, she wants to give the horse a break, also great. Lesson programs that provide lesson horses are quickly disappearing; keeping horses is expensive.

The suggestion for you to buy a horse, taken at face value, doesn’t seem nefarious. However, the type of horse your trainer has recommended for you to buy seems rather shady. Yes, training a business, but this trainer’s suggestion doesn’t sound to have your best interest in mind at all. You’d be far better off getting an older 2’6", maybe 3’, schoolmaster here stateside. A true beginner-safe schoolmaster may need the occasional “tune-up” ride two or three times a year, not several training rides a week.

[dags]

@mmeqcenter

Why on earth would someone pop a xrail before learning to canter? Any program that regularly teaches in that order is quite unsafe, IMO. Unless maybe by “xrail” you mean one so small it’s more of a cavaletti.

The crossbar is used to introduce the canter, without having to go through all that blazing around the ring at an extended trot before schoolie finally agrees to canter. As long as the two-point is solid the student should be fine just holding mane and then voila! canter. And a two-point that didn’t get utterly destroyed by the awkward transition. Many consider it the safer way to introduce the canter.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I totally agree with you, and I hate the way I was taught to jump as an adult (the fact that I’m now exclusively dressage probably says a lot).

But while when I was a kid, that was definitely the case (I remember only getting up to jumping small fences after cantering for some time), when I went back to riding in the late 00s, the instructor had me going over crossrails after only a few lessons at the walk and trot. I was not confident and actually asked for more time getting comfortable in the saddle, and the instructor pretty much ripped me a new one about being a beginner (well, a restarter rider) trying to dictate the lesson. She taught people how to canter by having them trot into small verticals and canter out. Cantering on your own was after you "learned’ to jump.

In retrospect, I feel I was pushed into jumping too soon for my personal growth as a rider, and I think it’s why I came to be a rider who was much more comfortable doing pretty much anything but jumping.

One reason for this may have been (at least where I lived at the time) there were shows with beginner classes for kids (and even just some for new riders, including adults) with w/t crossrail classes, so the instructor wanted to teach skills that could get riders showing ASAP.

I personally wish I’d been taught in the European model of dressage first, rock-solid independent seat at all gaits without stirrups, then jump. I even asked my first few h/j teachers for this as a restarter adult, and they were not open to this.

[dags]

OP - you will absolutely, 100% depreciate your horse. It does not mean you ruined it. Each one has lessons to teach you, each one has a finite number of lessons in it, and each lesson costs something of the animal. Any hit on value is just paying for the cost of those lessons. And when you’re a beginner you cash in lots of those lessons, and that will be reflected in the price when/if you go to sell.

I think the trainer is fine trying to push you along her program’s particular milestones but yeah, the 1.10m schoolmaster from Europe is a bit of a head scratcher. I also wonder if you’re getting any of the camaraderie element at this barn? Group lessons, riding in company, chatting in the crossties with fellow adult ammys, etc. There’s so much value in those kind of experiences.

IMO, this program seems a step above what you really need. I’d hate to see any newbie skip the fun, joyful, social, goofy, no-pressure aspect of horses and jump right into the very serious life of owning valuable show horses and worrying about social media railbirds and depreciation. And remember, one colic or torn suspensory or mysterious ailment and you are right back to riding Mr. WTC while also paying board bills for Mr. 1.10m Schoolmaster.

If you have the money to full lease & full/partial train I guarantee you there is a program out there with a 20 year old former WEF winner that’s appreciated as the king he is and bestowed upon a new student each year. There’s probably group lessons with other novice amateurs, and days just hacking on your own, and you’ll probably be doing 2’3" courses by the end of the year, which will really open up the selection of horses suitable for you to purchase (pro tip: it still won’t be a 1.10m schoolmaster).