If your horse is in full or partial training and you aren’t present for a training ride/lesson, what are your expectations for what goes on in your absence? Is 15-20 minutes of basic WTC enough? Do you expect a proper warmup and cool down?
The session should be just as effective as if the client were present. Captain Obvious, here.
No trainer can miraculously transform a horse in one or two rides, but I’d expect to see/feel some difference over time, especially if the client is also taking lessons and riding as much like the trainer as possible.
I’d also expect the trainer to do the training, not a working student, unless that’s been discussed beforehand.
For me personally, if the horse is tacked up by the owner they get more time under saddle. I charge X amount for 45-1 hr. If you want to be there and tack up your horse and have it ready you get more ride time, if I have to do it, it takes away from some of the ride. Usually I can tack up and cool down in a little over 15 min so that leaves 40 min-ish ride times, but if the horse is really dirty I should not have to spend my time cleaning them up because I could be using that time to work another horse so it’s costing me money.
In my world, a training ride is largely dictated by the horse-- what questions he presents and how long it takes me to get him to answer them the way I’d like, or to get as far along as his body (and mind) will let him on that day. Often, this can take less time than would a lesson since it’s just me and the horse in a conversation. There’s no “third party” to explain things to, or whose body I might need to speak about if the rider can’t do what I ask in her lesson.
If, on the other hand, the horse needs a ride that’s about fitness or strength building, (or patience), my ride might take longer than a lesson. And to me, the ride starts when I first handle the horse. So if we come across a problem with, say, pawing in the cross ties or "won’t let me hose off his head, we “pull over” and fix it.
[QUOTE=JLR1;8588613]
If your horse is in full or partial training and you aren’t present for a training ride/lesson, what are your expectations for what goes on in your absence?
Is 15-20 minutes of basic WTC enough?
Do you expect a proper warmup and cool down?[/QUOTE]
If I’m paying for an ‘hour’ ride, I expect my horse to be worked for the majority of that time,
give or take some time, for any ‘holes’ in the training that might be encountered.
Warm up/cool down included in that time.
I DO NOT think that a 20 minute ride suffices when you are paying for someone’s expertise.
You can ride and practice for 20 minutes yourself,
they are there to TRAIN.
I have dealt with various trainers over the past few years, some excellent,
and 100% giving of their time and expertise, while others were lazy,
wanted the money more than the actual work, and were misrepresenting of their actual skill level.
Those ^^ were the ‘trainers’ who rode for 20 minutes,
jumped off the horse, handed YOU the reins to cool down and drove away :no:
I think its a good idea to be present during training sessions, as much as possible,
bc there is learning and insight to be gained watching someone else ride your horse also.
Good trainers will often video rides, and take time to discuss their thoughts, suggestions, etc on the horse.
Lazy trainers will avoid having to give you their time, thoughts,
suggestions or insight.
Lazy ‘trainers’ are glorified ‘exercise riders’.
Trust me, there is a HUGE difference between the two :yes:
It depends how the horse is that day. If he’s giving 100% and answers every question with “yes” sometimes 30 minutes is plenty - I believe in quitting while you’re ahead. If more discussion is needed, or the horse needs to be legged up and brought back into shape, the rides often last an hour or more.
[QUOTE=JLR1;8588613]
If your horse is in full or partial training and you aren’t present for a training ride/lesson, what are your expectations for what goes on in your absence?[/QUOTE]
Same as if I was there. Good training based on what my horse need and what was agreed upon.
I don’t want long/tiring/’‘impressive’’ training ride when I there to prove me training is being done.
Neither do I want shortened exercice rides or worst, harsh training when I’m not there.
Is 15-20 minutes of basic WTC enough?
It really depends. What is the plan with that horse?
Yesterday, I rode 25 minutes. It was more of an exercice ride BUT I still worked on some basic stuff : I worked on my half halts, on my turns and all my transitions were perfect (well…that was the goal). Within the canter, I worked on lenghtening a bit. Overall, I mainly just checked if all the buttons were there! I didn’t ask for nothing fancy, just went around the ring and a few circles…looked really basic, it wasn’t hard work but really precise.
15-20 minutes is quite short to do anything relevant but if it is a really young horse or one that has problems, maybe it is part of a longer term plan.
15-20 minutes of W/T/C training could be enough but that would probably exclude the warm up and cool down time.
Do you expect a proper warmup and cool down?
Always. I actually have lessons to optimize my warm up.
As an example: will be away part next week. Trainer will ride my horse 1 day. the good news is that I know exactly how it will go. Warm the horse up, assess how easily he comes together after a show and a day off. Spend the working part of the ride on building his strength at the level of collection needed for PSG. Transitions forward and back, lateral work, practice a few pirouettes. A little relaxation at the end. If its a normal day, will run 45 minutes. If horse is SUPER good, it may take less.
We are in partial training; he will WORK the horse. If I only want WTC, I can find a friend to hack him around for 20 minutes at no charge.
Some years back, I had a trainer that thought that every training session for one of my horses should consist of 15 minutes of lunging and 10 minutes of riding in draw reins. She did usually ride my other horse for 30-40 minutes, but she also had a tendency to be gone a lot. She would do clinics and shows on back to back weekends, and at one point, she went to a 3-day clinic out of town (so missed basically 5 days of training time), left for WEG two days later, was gone for 8 days, came back for a day (but didn’t ride my horses), and then left for Europe and was gone for another week. Yet she expected her payments for full training, anyway.
And before that, another trainer whose MO was 30 minutes 3x a week.
Both these trainers made extensive use of grooms to do the tacking/untacking - esp. the 30-minute wonder, who only touched my horse when the groom brought it to her, fully tacked up and already warmed up via lunging.
These were both young whipper-snappers with all kinds of USDF Medals, and had also both been working students for a former Olympic dressage rider. :rolleyes:
My current trainer does full rides on my horse even if I am not there - warm-up / schooling / cool-down and after-care. She varies the work from session to session, and within each session - stretchy rides in the snaffle, schooling specific movements, fitness work on hills or hand gallops in half-seat, trotting poles, or sometimes if he has worked hard all week, she just takes him on a relaxing hack around the farm and through the woods to the lake and back. And even though she has barn help, if I am not there, she does almost all the tacking up, untacking, hosing, etc., herself.
I am/was paying all these trainers for full training, but only the current one is truly earning it.
[QUOTE=2tempe;8588876]
As an example: will be away part next week. Trainer will ride my horse 1 day.
the good news is that I know exactly how it will go. Warm the horse up,
assess how easily he comes together after a show and a day off.
Spend the working part of the ride on building his strength at the level of collection needed for PSG.
Transitions forward and back, lateral work, practice a few pirouettes.
A little relaxation at the end. If its a normal day, will run 45 minutes.
If horse is SUPER good, it may take less.
We are in partial training; he will WORK the horse.
If I only want WTC, I can find a friend to hack him around for 20 minutes at no charge.[/QUOTE]
AGREE!! ^^
[QUOTE=DownYonder;8588951]
Some years back, I had a trainer that thought that every training session for one
of my horses should consist of 15 minutes of lunging and 10 minutes of riding in draw reins.
She did usually ride my other horse for 30-40 minutes, but she also had a tendency to be gone a lot.
She would do clinics and shows on back to back weekends, and at one point,
she went to a 3-day clinic out of town (so missed basically 5 days of training time), left for WEG two days later, was gone for 8 days, came back for a day
(but didn’t ride my horses), and then left for Europe and was gone for another week.
Yet she expected her payments for full training, anyway.
And before that, another trainer whose MO was 30 minutes 3x a week.
Both these trainers made extensive use of grooms to do the tacking/untacking - esp.
the 30-minute wonder, who only touched my horse when the groom brought it
to her, fully tacked up and already warmed up via lunging.
These were both young whipper-snappers with all kinds of USDF Medals,
and had also both been working students for a former Olympic dressage rider. :rolleyes:
My current trainer does full rides on my horse even if I am not there - warm-up / schooling / cool-down and after-care.
She varies the work from session to session, and within each session - stretchy rides in the snaffle, schooling specific movements, fitness work on hills
or hand gallops in half-seat, trotting poles, or sometimes if he has worked hard
all week, she just takes him on a relaxing hack around the farm and through the woods to the lake and back.
And even though she has barn help, if I am not there, she does almost all the tacking up, untacking, hosing, etc., herself.
I am/was paying all these trainers for full training, but only the current one is truly earning it.[/QUOTE]
Similar experience with young ‘lazy’ trainer, and I fired her and moved on.
Have since found other excellent, better qualified ‘trainers’ who I feel give me my money’s worth,
and the difference in the horse’s progress was remarkable :yes:
The horse tells the real story as to whether or not the ‘trainer’ is doing their JOB :yes:
The lazy trainer was there to collect a paycheck and ‘training’ consisted of just sitting on the horse,., Bahahah!! :eek:
I have actually, since, observed her ‘training’ others horses the same way, and shook my head in disbelief!! :eek:
She keeps a job, but not for long.
The other trainers I’ve used are in high demand, and their business is booming.
Lazy trainer is in low demand, and is essentially an exercise rider with some advanced skills.
Reputation - not good :no:
[QUOTE=BigMama1;8588808]
It depends how the horse is that day. If he’s giving 100% and answers every question with “yes” sometimes 30 minutes is plenty - I believe in quitting while you’re ahead. If more discussion is needed, or the horse needs to be legged up and brought back into shape, the rides often last an hour or more.[/QUOTE]
This ^^^
[QUOTE=TrailRides4Fun;8588740]
If I’m paying for an ‘hour’ ride, I expect my horse to be worked for the majority of that time,
give or take some time, for any ‘holes’ in the training that might be encountered.
Warm up/cool down included in that time.
I DO NOT think that a 20 minute ride suffices when you are paying for someone’s expertise.
You can ride and practice for 20 minutes yourself,
they are there to TRAIN.
I have dealt with various trainers over the past few years, some excellent,
and 100% giving of their time and expertise, while others were lazy,
wanted the money more than the actual work, and were misrepresenting of their actual skill level.
Those ^^ were the ‘trainers’ who rode for 20 minutes,
jumped off the horse, handed YOU the reins to cool down and drove away :no:
I think its a good idea to be present during training sessions, as much as possible,
bc there is learning and insight to be gained watching someone else ride your horse also.
Good trainers will often video rides, and take time to discuss their thoughts, suggestions, etc on the horse.
Lazy trainers will avoid having to give you their time, thoughts,
suggestions or insight.
Lazy ‘trainers’ are glorified ‘exercise riders’.
Trust me, there is a HUGE difference between the two :yes:[/QUOTE]
Wow, that is not fair to the horse. If the horse works harder and learns a LOT in 20 minutes, then the trainer should GET OFF. It’s about training/teaching the horse. To do it by time rather than training and what the horse is capable of and what it is learning that day is detrimental to the horse. Sometimes it can be long, drawn out sessions, sometimes it is short and sweet. Fitness and what you are working on all come in to play.
This would make you a client any reputable trainer would NOT want to work with/for.
Tacking up and cooling down are not, in my mind, considered a part of the training. That’s just standard for any time you get on a horse, and takes as long as it takes. The session is never timed. It is about accomplishing certain goals while riding. Some are fitness, others are mental exercises for the horse. The latter usually are shorter, especially the further along a horse is in its training.
Depends on the age to a degree IMO and then beyond that the level of training the horse already has. Personally I would be fine w/ a 30min ride as long as it was productive. A good horseman can do a lot more in 30min than the average rider can do over a few weeks. Its all about perspective. It all depends on the trainer, and comes down to how much you trust them.
How is it possible to have a 20 minute training ride including warm up and cool down with the trainer on the entire time, unless working only on warm up and cool down?
[QUOTE=right horse at the right time;8589277]
How is it possible to have a 20 minute training ride including warm up and cool down with the trainer on the entire time, unless working only on warm up and cool down?[/QUOTE]
It isn’t. Some trainers may have a helper to warm up the horse and sometimes the horse just doesn’t get a proper warm-up or cool down. I’ve seen it done both ways.
A good warm-up is not negotiable. It takes mine at least 20 minutes and the work doesn’t start to get good until at least 30 minutes into the ride. I’ve heard trainers say that “20 minutes with me is a lot of work and that’s all the horse needs.” Okay, fine, but if you didn’t get the horse warmed up that is BS.
[QUOTE=LarkspurCO;8589289]
It isn’t. Some trainers may have a helper to warm up the horse and sometimes the horse just doesn’t get a proper warm-up or cool down. I’ve seen it done both ways.
A good warm-up is not negotiable. It takes mine at least 20 minutes and the work doesn’t start to get good until at least 30 minutes into the ride. I’ve heard trainers say that “20 minutes with me is a lot of work and that’s all the horse needs.” Okay, fine, but if you didn’t get the horse warmed up that is BS.[/QUOTE]
100 percent agree.
Depends what the horse needs. I expect a proper warm-up and cool down regardless. If the horse is learning changes, and gets the right answer 3 times in a row - maybe the entire ride will be 20 minutes long. If the horse is working on stamina, or incremental improvements of lots of things, maybe it will be 45 minutes. I’m not paying for an amount of time, I’m paying for the horse to improve.
I also don’t think a trainer should charge an owner to ride their horse while simultaneously teaching a lesson. Both customers are short-changed.
[QUOTE=Velvet;8589237]
This would make you a client any reputable trainer would NOT want to work with/for.[/QUOTE]
LOL,…, this is a really rude unnecessary statement considering
you have no idea who I am, or my skill level, level of my horse, etc.
Such attacking comments just show a childish nature, and an ignorance of the discussion, for discussion sake.
Not useful, not informational :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=LarkspurCO;8589289]
A good warm-up is not negotiable.
It takes mine at least 20 minutes and the work doesn’t start to get good until at least 30 minutes into the ride.
I’ve heard trainers say that “20 minutes with me is a lot of work and that’s all the horse needs.”
Okay, fine, but if you didn’t get the horse warmed up that is BS.[/QUOTE]
100% agree^^
If the horse is in training, she is/has been brought along to a point where,
a 45-50 minute ride time is not overly taxing.
Especially if the warm in is 20 minutes of that, and the cool down is 10.
When I’m paying a trainer, I’m paying for their expertise,
and I’m ok with them pushing the horse a bit.
I’m always present when my horse is ridden so I know her abilities.
If shes going perfectly, I’m the first one to say - quit,
but to ask a little more 1x a week, or 2x a month,
is NOT pushing the animal beyond its limits.
Thats why I bring in a trainer, otherwise, I can put the time on my horse, myself.
