Does anyone have one? Are there any Trak stallions that are commonly used in Sport Pony breeding programs? I have a very modern type Haflinger that I would love to breed to a Trakehner for something a bit bigger and fancier but not “WB sized”. 
I believe Jana Wagner bred her late stallion, Macht (not approved ATA), to produce at least a couple of pony crosses. I remember at least one or two doing fairly well years ago like Mushu, a stallion, who was registered NASPR. Can’t remember Mushu’s dam but some of them were out of a mustang mare.
I’ve a friend with a very fancy but small (15HH) TK mare that she is breeding to Chicco B (German Riding Pony).
Slightly OT but Many years ago one of the first ponies I owned was a HalflingerxArabian. She was super cute and fancy dressage/sport type and VERY game (but quite a lot of Pony! as she was very forward). That little mare had a stunning foal by Hilkens Black Delight (GRP) that was quite lovely moving and also had excellent type.
I’ll post pics in the morning. My mare is one of the most refined Haffies I’ve seen, too refined IMO, no body to get your leg on. I’d like to produce that totally undesireable size of 15ish hands for dressage & lower level eventing. 
I’m excited to see pics! I’m considering breeding my haflinger (not modern/refined) to get a sport pony too! I happened to stumble across Le Rouge on another thread and he almost made me drool… Had trouble finding breeding info though…
It’s nice to see someone wanting to cross their haffie with a sport horse. It doesn’t seem a common cross (at least not yet) and I haven’t seen many examples of offspring - other than paint x haffie’s, as they started their own registry in the US I found out, haha.
A girl local to me has a Trak/Welsh cross. I have to say he’s very fancy!
First - one of my favorite ponies of all time was a Halfie (over in Germany)… what a FUN and SPORTY little guy! Man that pony could jump anything…
I actually bred my (NA) TK/TB stallion, Emerald Impressions, to a small pony mare that I have before I gelded him. The mare is of unknown origin although I’d hazard a guess that she is Hackney, or Hackney cross. She was pretty proven in sport herself way back in the day and is one of the better moving ponies I’d seen. The resulting filly was a large (around 14.1 hh) black pony that was incrediably athletic and a great mover. Andrea Hayden bought her from me (along with her half sister). Not sure what she is doing with her now… Allie (my TK cross pony) had been injured pretty severely as a youngster and while it didn’t affect her movement or anything she was not as trusting of humans.
Same pony mare was bred prior to my getting her to Impressionist (who had been bred to other ponies and who is now deceased). Resulting gelding is again around 14.2 hh, black, and FANCY. He’s in the B’ham area showing on the A circut (I think - he was supposed to be at least) in the jumpers up against the big boys.
Julie Baxley was breeding pony/TK crosses at one point, not sure if she still is or not. She was part owner of the stallion Radscha but not sure if she used him or another one (or she may have been breeding her TK mares to pony stallions).
It can be done, but you want to keep the “like to like” consistent.
Schoenfeld was used - and I think Schopony is still standing? I also have a vague recollection of Tradition being used?
I think a TK stallion with a good dose of Arabian could be nice cross - Peron might be available frozen?
Over the years we produced a few ponies by Meisterwind that went on and did well as Hunter ponies. A friend of ours bred an Arab mare to him and we have that gelding here. He is 13.2 at almost 3, so we are hopeful that he will stay pony sized.
I think a Haffie Trak cross would be a nice pony.
Here’s the link to Schoponi’s page:
http://www.maeswayfarm.com/Schoponi.htm
My trainer owned one of his offspring a couple years back. He was very fancy! He was a little bit spooky and difficult to start, but once he figured it out, he was a super hunter pony.
My mare Beeza is supposedly by the Trak Falke out of a Connemara mare “Bitters” (probably something like Hideaway Greystone Bit of Ireland or similar). I got her when she was 18, and quite lame, but I’m told she was a super mover and jumper. She’s been a successful broodmare when bred to RID’s
The GRP Makuba has Trak lines.
[QUOTE=Miichelle;6385300]
I’d like to produce that totally undesireable size of 15ish hands for dressage & lower level eventing. :)[/QUOTE]
Of course you do! :winkgrin:
Hi Fillytracks, I read your thread with great interest but didn’t want to hijack it because I’m specifically looking for a Trakehner stallion to breed my Haflinger to. I’d also be open to a stallion of Trakehner breeding that didn’t get Trak papers for one reason or another (being too small would be an acceptable reason for what I’m breeding for) or is predominately Trakehner (at least ¾) and registered with a different association. I think one of the reasons that Haffies aren’t commonly crossed for sport ponies is because the Haflinger breeders have a different nitch market. The breeder’s with the more Sport Horse type are (or seem to be) very dedicated to the breed and have no desire to out cross. They’re breeding flashy little horses with the target market being lower level ammi owners. Unfortunately, from what I’ve seen in my little neck of the woods, there are a lot of poorly bred Haffies with temperaments that are NOT ammi or kid friendly (my daughter owns a gelding that fits this description!) and this tends to give the breed a rather dubious reputation. Also, everyone I’ve come across (who even knows what a Haflinger IS in Idaho) immediately thinks draft pony. Ironically Haflingers were not drafty until being bred for pack ponies during WWII and only in the U.S. do we have draft classes and breed for draft ponies. The World Haflinger Association’s breed standard is for a Sport Horse, not a draft pony.
In my mare’s case they bred two sport type Haflingers and got a rather extreme version. My mare’s breeder was a newbie and essentially bred her very nice mare to the “hottest, trendiest stallion” instead of evaluating strengths and weaknesses. Claire’s sire was the top producing stallion for four or five years running and he IS very nice but I now have a well bred mare that’s breeding is about as common as they come. I bought my mare as a big leggy yearling with 14.2hh & 15hh parents as a dressage/event prospect and she never grew. She’s five this year and I held off getting her broke until NOW because she was SO small and immature both physically and mentally. It turns out she was worth the wait because she hasn’t made a wrong move yet. She learned to lunge in a couple of days, never batted an eye at being saddled or backed, fell asleep while being clipped for the first time. She’s everything a Haflinger is advertised as being but she’s also as narrow as a fence post! I’m 5’4” and have long legs and I have trouble finding the pony under me. My daughter is 5’3” and shorter legged and has better luck and looks pretty good on her. I wouldn’t mind Claire’s height (14.1hh) if there was a body there to get my leg on!
Claire is a nice mover, she has at least a 4” overstep at the walk, an uphill trot with a good extension, canter could be better but it’s not bad just not as uphill as I’d like. She’s been free jumped thru a chute once at my trainer’s and her knees wrap around her ears and she’s tidy with her hindend (cute, cute, cute! :D).
Acottongim, I understand that “like to like” breeding is more important than size of the stallion which is why I came on CoTH, any suggestions for an appropriate match? I’ve been surfing the net until I’m cross-eyed looking at stallions but I have trouble telling “type” from pictures and most Trakehner stallions don’t seem to advertise the height of their stallions. I’d at least like a place to start, I can’t contact every stallion owner and I’m sure that some would probably be offended that I want to breed my Haffie pony to their stallion…
Thanks for your suggestions Molly M and NoDQhere, I’ll look into them!
Fastjofast, thanks for Schoponi’s link. Something like that is what I’d like without the spook!
Sorry for the novel! :sadsmile: Attached are some resent pictures, Claire is so laid back that I can’t get her to stand square without a handler (which I didn’t have), she’s always got one foot cocked when she’s tied to the trailer. The picture with my daughter on her is the first time she was ridden (on the lunge line) and the lighting and angles are bad, she’s not post legged.
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p21/michelletjk/Mobile%20Uploads/100MEDIA36IMAG1832.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p21/michelletjk/Mobile%20Uploads/100MEDIA36IMAG1831.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p21/michelletjk/Mobile%20Uploads/downsized_0604121342a.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p21/michelletjk/Mobile%20Uploads/downsized_0604121343b-1.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p21/michelletjk/Mobile%20Uploads/0604121344a02.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p21/michelletjk/Mobile%20Uploads/downsized_0611121431a.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p21/michelletjk/Mobile%20Uploads/downsized_0617122113.jpg
Why did you decide to go with a Trak? I’m slowly learning all the WB breeds. I’ve never been a big breed person but trying to learn now.
Good to know about the haflinger history - many people say the drafty version was the original. I was unaware they made an appearance later in time.
I have met and heard of quite a few “crazy” haflingers that are absolutely not ammie friendly. I have a friend who got a young haflinger gelding, unbroke, as she has backed horses and trained plenty before. They started him under saddle as a 3yo and was just a mess. He developed a bucking habit and the only way to get him not to buck was to wear him out. I’ve heard haflingers shouldn’t be started until about 5yo, so glad it turned out well with your mare. Mine was a pasture ornament until she was 7yo when I got her
Your mare is cute! And she has withers! Mine does not, haha. I’d be looking at a stud with some junk in his trunk to compliment her.
Excited to see what you decide, and will be likely looking into all the stallions suggested for your mare as well!
[QUOTE=exvet;6385277]
I believe Jana Wagner bred her late stallion, Macht (not approved ATA), to produce at least a couple of pony crosses. I remember at least one or two doing fairly well years ago like Mushu, a stallion, who was registered NASPR. Can’t remember Mushu’s dam but some of them were out of a mustang mare.[/QUOTE]
Mushu’s dam was a mustang mare. She is able to collect ship Mushu semen now and he is still a very, very neat stallion.
Why a Trakehner? Hmmm… Lots of reasons. It would probably be easier for you to research Traks and make up your own mind and I’m very much a newbie Trak fancier so I may come across as a total dork but to begin with I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the Traks I’ve met! 
A Tzigane Pb gelding that is competing internationally in Eventing at my trainer’s barn is also SO SWEET that he can be used for lessons (in a pinch) and not just tolerate mistakes but it just doesn’t bother him, he’s just a good guy. A 3 yr old stallion at the barn by the same stallion is just about as nice and gentlemanly as you could expect a young stallion to be. Rarely would you know there’s a stallion in the barn.
Trakehners are one of the few (the only?) warmblood registries that only accept Trak to Trak breedings and (I THINK) approved TB and Arabs. The other WB registries are confusing from an “American” standpoint. Depending on the registry you can (for example) have an Oldenburg who’s parents were Holsteiner and Hanoverian. Not a bad thing but you REALLY have to know your warmblood bloodlines to know what you’re actually breeding to…
All this is a generalization, each horse is an individual, but Trakehners also tend to have more “blood” and are definitely not a “dumblood” (not meaning to insult ANY warmbloods here!). Traks still tend to have a reputation for being hot or crazy but you have individuals in all breeds that seem to ruin it for the majority. Traks tend to be more sensitive and refined than a lot of warmbloods and are known for improving other breeds. The people who love their Trakehners will tell you that they’re a “different” warmblood, very personable and people oriented. OH! And Traks are renowned for having big extravagant gaits with tons of suspension that are COMFORTABLE and you can actually SIT!!! (Definitely a plus in my department!!!). :yes:
Those are good reasons. I agree a lot of the holsteiners/traks/oldenburg registries confuse me at this point - I have an “American” standpoint though, haha. I’m trying to learn
I had also been looking at ponies - partially because I am self-conscious about asking WB breeders about breeding to my haflinger mare. I guess I should get over that, worst they can say is no!
Will be doing lots of reading on Traks, have never met one (or a holsteiner, oldenburg) but will do lots of online research. Maybe if some are coming to any local shows I’ll try to break out of my anti-social box and say hi.
Thanks!
[QUOTE=fillytracks;6385956]
I had also been looking at ponies - partially because I am self-conscious about asking WB breeders about breeding to my haflinger mare. I guess I should get over that, worst they can say is no!
Will be doing lots of reading on Traks, have never met one (or a holsteiner, oldenburg) but will do lots of online research. Maybe if some are coming to any local shows I’ll try to break out of my anti-social box and say hi.
Thanks![/QUOTE]
Ponies aren’t going to add the size I want to my mare, yours is a different type, you might do very well with the right pony. I definitly don’t want to refine my mare, I just want some body and a little more size. I have the same opinion about asking WB breeders to breed to my Haffie, that’s one of the reasons I’m on CoTH asking for suggestions for stallions that not only are of a good type for crossing on ponies but who’s owners are open to breeding for sport ponies.
Reading up on Trakehners isn’t that big of a chore their history is fasinating (and heartbreaking!). I need to “search” the topic on CoTH again but there are a couple of books that are highly recomended.
I have two small (15hh) Trakehner mares that I’m very fond of, so of course I think the idea of TrakX ponies is a lovely one
I’m not sure I’ll breed either of them again, but if I do, I’d seriously consider using either a Welsh or GRP stallion.
Don’t be shy about talking to stallion owners - some might be put off, some might be open to the idea but not think their stallion is a good match for your mare, some are just not helpful no matter how nice your mare is, but some of them are wonderful. And the good news is that these days there are quite a few lovely Trakehner stallions to choose from, so you can write off the non-helpful SO’s and still have plenty to choose from.
Neither of my mare’s sires is available any more as far as I know (one is definitely deceased, the other was retired last I heard, but may be deceased by now), unfortunate. But I found Jean Brinkman of Valhalla Trakehners extremely helpful when I was looking at stallions, so I’d take a close look at what she’s standing now if I were in the market.
Someone also mentioned the GRP Makuba, and I’ve seen several of his offspring that I’ve really liked as well, and I’ve heard good things about his people, so that might be worth looking into.
