I currently ride two of my Arabians in a Tom Thumb type of bit, but I would like to move them into an S hackamore or sidepull (or some other kind of bitless option) so they can eat/drink better on the trail. I would love to hear what works for those of you who go bitless, as well as suggestions as to how to transition SAFELY to bitless? THANKS IN ADVANCE!
JMHO – if you can easily control your horse with a halter, bitless isn’t much different. I condition and endurance ride in a halter/bridle combo, attaching the reins to the rings at the sides of the halter. As a result, control is maintained by simple, uncomplicated pressure on the sensitive front of the face just above the muzzle. The bridle option allows you to snap on a bit quickly, which I find a nice feature if and when I might need it.
I found the transition from bit to none was completely seamless - even for my opinionated boy. He went from a gag (yes, you heard me right!! A GAG!!) to bitless in one ride. He took to bitless immediately, and I know he likes going bitless TONS better than having metal in his mouth. He moves better, happier, pays better attention, and doesn’t fuss and get all into himself as he used to do with a bit in his mouth. And this is a VERY well trained champion. The bit, however, just was a detraction that, after it had solved the one problem I had with him, was just no longer needed on a daily basis.
For myself, I found I was less apt to nag him (as I would with a bit) and more inclined to enjoy the riding as a partership rather than a test of wills.
Edited to add: The information above relates to training and conditioning rides, and during the later part of endurance rides. I have learned it is wise to start ANY endurance ride with a bit in place for easy removal later, or to carry it with you so if you need it, it is there. The rare times I forget to bit up at the start or bring one along, I would be kicking myself for the next 10-20 miles down the trail. Makes for great story telling, and the general hilarity of the riders around me, but it is NOT fun to keep a highly competitive, highly motivated, highly opinionated, FAST horse just on the edge of speed control with merely a halter. NOT!!!
I also always use a bit while foxhunting. Always. No exceptions. My guy can pick at grass and drink just fine with a bit when at checks while out hunting. Then again, he isn’t out for more than 3 hours with lots of rest stops, and doesn’t need to refuel to the extent he would when competing in endurance.
Different, but not a transition
My Arab prefers her snaffle to her bitless bridle (she doesn’t like the poll pressure), so we’re not the best people to ask, but… I did find the transition to bitless, when we tried it, to be “transition free.” This is because I got distracted, forgot that she was bitless, and then headed out on the trail instead of into the ring as I had planned. I realized she was bitless when we got back home after an uneventful ride (on the trail there is no difference between bitless or with her snaffle; it’s in the ring that she prefers the bit because the finer communication with the bit, which is what she’s used to, gives her more confidence as we school).
However, I’m not sure I would advise that approach. My mare is usually a pretty forward mare for the beginning of the ride, but as I’m sure we all know, deep in our heart of hearts, our horses know perfectly well from our seat and voice when we want them to stop or turn.
If they’re not listening, it’s not because of what’s on their heads so much as what’s going through their heads.
What I had planned to do, before going bitless, was do lots of exercises in the ring to reinforce the whoa, practice turning circles, etc. Especially if the bitless you go with does anything a regular bridle doesn’t (ie, poll pressure), you want to make sure your horse doesn’t panic.
Some horses take to it easier than others. My Trakehner gelding was great bitless once we found the right type (he didn’t like poll pressure). It was like he gave a big sigh of relief that I’d finally found the way he wanted to be ridden!
My TB gelding prefers a snaffle. I do work him bitless periodically because I would like to have the option. With him I do a ton of transitions, circles and changes of directions to get him listening to me. His problem is not that he doesn’t “like” bitless, rather he doesn’t feel he needs to listen so it’s a question of reeeducation.
Since you’re already riding with a bit that uses a curb strap or curb chain then switching to a hackamore will be really simple, especially if you’ve already taught your horse to do some neckreining. You don’t get poll pressure with a hackamore, but your horse will get a little nose pressure beside curb pressure. Just let your horse get acclimated in a no stress type of ride. Pick up some contact and release when your horse gives. Do teach them to direct rein so you can get a one rein stop if needed. Again you have to reteach the direct rein once you put the hackamore on. Most take to it fast. It’s can be much harder if the horse has not had a curb chain on before. If the rider just suddenly pulls on the reins hard and that curb chain tightens fast the rider can find themselves on a rearing horse.
So teach the horse about the new equipment. You may find that a simple curb strap won’t work when your horse gets competitive. I prefer english cub cahins with wide links that twist flat. No rubs on the horse’s chin but the horse will be less inclined to lean onto the cahin.
Bonnie S.
When I’ve gotten horses fresh off the track, I always switch straight to bitless using a jumping hackamore (rolled leather noseband with rings for the bit). I do this to break the cycle of leaning on the bit to run.
Only one horse had difficulty with this. For safety, I always did the first ride in a round pen. A riding arena would have worked just as well. For the very excitable horse, he seemed confused by the lack of bit and would run backwards or sideways at first every time I introduced him to a new environment–made for some exciting moments. Nobody else ever had any trouble. My excitable guy would have to go back into a bit when he got fit, but otherwise, he did very well without.
I would suggest the first ride be in an enclosed area to ensure you have stopping power. It would not be fun to realize you have no brakes out on the trail. JMHO. I love going bitless when the horse responds well. It is so much more relaxed, and you don’t have to worry if they are refusing to drink because of the bit or if they just aren’t thirsty.
I have not tried the bit you are thinking about.
I guess I’m the odd man out, my mare actually did need a transition to go from bitted to bitless. But then again, she was never ridden in a halter or anything like that, always in a bit. So when we tried bitless, it kinda blew her mind.
She’s also a very sensitive and insecure horse, so any change has to be done slowly and sympathetically. Once she realized I was still up there even without a bit in her mouth (she was sure that no bit = MY RIDER IS GONE!!! :lol: ), she was fine.
And now, she’s happy as a clam in her little hackamore, and sulks if she sees the bridle with the snaffle on it coming. :lol:
I do definitely suggest trying ANY new equipment out in an enclosed and safe area first, just for safety’s sake.
I’ve been known to ride in a halter and my gelding does not like it. Tried a bitless – didn’t like that either. Tried a hackamore and he seems to like that somewhat – but he seems to prefer his bit (I have light hands and he’s used to a loose rein). I guess it’s just trial and error.
I always start out in a safe place (my back yard) and don’t plan on any lengthy riding. Just try the new tack out for 10-15 minutes and if it works, I try again later on a short trail ride.
If they yield well to halter pressure to turn and stop and back, I’d just do it.
Set up a little pattern of poles or cones or barrels maybe, so you have something to circle and stop at, so you are testing them fairly.
Love the Little S. No poll pressure. Limited leverage. Lots of lateral bend. love love love that hackamore.
I ride my 3 horses is different bits and hackamores and they have no problem. I just put the hack on and they take to it right away. None of them really seem to care or notice what type of head gear they have on.
If you have to ask you obviously don’t have experience and I think you are asking for trouble. You are giving up control and if the horse really spooks you can not stop him bitless. Being from Texas you have snakes. What if one suddenly spooked your horse and he ran off??? He will run right through you regardless of what you say.
I rode everything bitless for years. Even rode with a rope hulla hoop? A twine string off a bale worked great but I eventually run into a horse that dam near killed me and I will no longer ride without control.
We get people asking for advice on how to overcome this or that and if we could look really close it is the way people treat there horses.
It is better to ride gently with too much bit then not have enough when you need it.
Some carry a gun when they go out riding??? Why?? In case they need it they have something to use force with. Why not a bit???
As for horses needing to eat and drink on the trail do most really ride enough to warrant it?? Sure on a hot day a nice cool drink is desired but honestly can’t a horse drink through the bit??? Horses have been for centuries.
As for eating come on a horse can go for the little distances we ask of them without stopping for a snack.
I ALL endurance races there are breaks every so often, holds, gates where you can pull the bridle and saddle and then let the horse eat, not between holds. There just isn’t time .
On everyone’s casual trail rides again a horse doesn’t and shouldn’t eat along the trail. It is just an annoying habit and even the occassional mouthfull of grass the horse might grab isn’t worth the effort.
Being in boarding stables I watch lots of people ruining good horse, spoiled bratts, worthless good horses that just don’t know.
I know one know it all right now who started 2 years ago come april to train her horse, owned the mother and bred her. The horse is turning 8 and she still can’t ride him even though she spent $3000 on a professional “horse wisperer”" Ask her and she will tell you how to do things, but ask her to show you on her horse and she can’t.
Don’t follow alot of old ladies who really don’t know what they are talking about and end up with a horse like theirs.
Leave the bit in, don’t let the horse eat on trail and if you want a good drinker don’t offer it water every waterhole you come to. Restrict it’s water at times and it will appreciate a chance and drink well.
The arab horsemen only watered once a day around noon.
Like carrying that gun in case you run into trouble leave the bit ,keep the hands soft until you really need it.
I put the hackamore on a bridle without browband and then put his regular bitted bridle over it. Just wanted to make sure I had brakes. He might have been fine going directly to the hack, but I didn’t want to find out the hard way!
My horses are FROM Texas – they don’t even blink at a snake on the trail … even if it’s rattling! :lol:
Thanks to everyone who posted! :yes: I’m looking into the Arabian S hackamore, and will try it out in the round pen before taking it on the trail…
Goodness!
If you don’t ask you’ll never learn, but we all have different experiences.
Hunter 14 has had his/hers, but as with most other posters, I had great results with riding my green OTT standardbred in a cross-under bitless bridle, and I wasn’t that experienced at the time. It took all of one circuit of a small paddock at a walk, for her to realise that the annoying thing in her mouth had gone, and that she could listen to my aids. She went from strength to strength as a splendid riding horse and I don’t have to worry about heavy handed riders!
Like gothedistance, (I could just endorse everything said in that post) my arabs were started under saddle in halters, and are ridden bitless, one in a hackamore, and the other in a rope halter with reins clipped on. We do not have control problems, but as with all horse activities, a lot depends on the rider and horse having a meeting of minds.
If you’re doing endurance, you’ll be wanting a horse that will go at a steady gait on a loose rein, and be thinking about the job at hand, which will let you relax on a long ride. I think that being bit free is one less distraction for it to cope with.
As for eating on the trail - well that’s a matter for the individual to decide. IMO there’s nothing wrong with it, and sometimes a horse would rather eat than drink during a ride. People who like to be in control get driven mad by what they see as ill-discipline and sloppy riding though.
Try it and see how it goes. It’s not hard
[QUOTE=JaneeneSings;3836311]
My horses are FROM Texas – they don’t even blink at a snake on the trail … even if it’s rattling! :lol:
)[/QUOTE]
I was under the impression that a rattler or watermoccasin could bit a horse and cause serious problems?? So you are saying that if a rattler suddenly lunged from under a bush at your horses they wouldn’t be bothered???
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I have tried bitless on several of my horses, various forms of them also. In the roundpen, all things are fine. Out on trail, there are too many distractions for them. I ride with a bit…always now. I will never try bitless on any of mine again. In the roundpen maybe… On trail, Never. Too many things can happen…darn near died once because horse ignored his Hack. My life is very important to me. My horse is secure in his bit. He doesn’t mind it. He responds well to it…why change?!
I think it definitely boils down to personal preferance and the individual horse. I ride a chestnut TB mare. You could tell she hated wearing a bit. She is kind of petite and wears a cob size bridle. She had been trained and mostly ridden in a snaffle in her earlier years. She would just get so fussy if you had to take any contact. I changed to using a mullen mouth Happy Mouth bit, which she was less fussy in. I happened to get an english hackamore at a silent auction for just a couple of dollars, and thought well let’s give it a try. I started riding her in the hack in January. A few friends thought I was crazy. My mare loved it. I now ride her all the time in the hackamore including my hunter lessons and group trail rides. I was on a ride with some people I had never ridden with before and they were holding their horses back so they could run to catch up to the leaders to the point their horses were rearing and spinning. Their horses were running into my horse. I told them that they could go ahead of me, no problem. With that they took off at a dead gallop. I patted my horse on the neck and said whoa girl. I let them get out of sight and then trotted at a nice forward pace till I caught up with the group. I knew after that that I would never have a problem with control. The first time I used the hackamore, I did put in on with her regular bridle , sort of like a double bridle and just left the snaffle reins kind of loose.
[QUOTE=Shadow14;3836263]
If you have to ask you obviously don’t have experience and I think you are asking for trouble. You are giving up control and if the horse really spooks you can not stop him bitless. Being from Texas you have snakes. What if one suddenly spooked your horse and he ran off??? He will run right through you regardless of what you say.
I rode everything bitless for years. Even rode with a rope hulla hoop? A twine string off a bale worked great but I eventually run into a horse that dam near killed me and I will no longer ride without control.
We get people asking for advice on how to overcome this or that and if we could look really close it is the way people treat there horses.
It is better to ride gently with too much bit then not have enough when you need it.
Some carry a gun when they go out riding??? Why?? In case they need it they have something to use force with. Why not a bit???
As for horses needing to eat and drink on the trail do most really ride enough to warrant it?? Sure on a hot day a nice cool drink is desired but honestly can’t a horse drink through the bit??? Horses have been for centuries.
As for eating come on a horse can go for the little distances we ask of them without stopping for a snack.
I ALL endurance races there are breaks every so often, holds, gates where you can pull the bridle and saddle and then let the horse eat, not between holds. There just isn’t time .
On everyone’s casual trail rides again a horse doesn’t and shouldn’t eat along the trail. It is just an annoying habit and even the occassional mouthfull of grass the horse might grab isn’t worth the effort.
Being in boarding stables I watch lots of people ruining good horse, spoiled bratts, worthless good horses that just don’t know.
I know one know it all right now who started 2 years ago come april to train her horse, owned the mother and bred her. The horse is turning 8 and she still can’t ride him even though she spent $3000 on a professional “horse wisperer”" Ask her and she will tell you how to do things, but ask her to show you on her horse and she can’t.
Don’t follow alot of old ladies who really don’t know what they are talking about and end up with a horse like theirs.
Leave the bit in, don’t let the horse eat on trail and if you want a good drinker don’t offer it water every waterhole you come to. Restrict it’s water at times and it will appreciate a chance and drink well.
The arab horsemen only watered once a day around noon.
Like carrying that gun in case you run into trouble leave the bit ,keep the hands soft until you really need it.[/QUOTE]
It shouldn’t be the bit stopping the horse (in fact it isn’t) - not if you are riding correctly anyway - so bitless should not be a problem to a correct rider.
TIPS ON HOW TO SWITCH TO A BITLESS BRIDLE
“Go bitless but not witless”
There are some things you can do to make the transition to using a bitless bridle smooth and safe for you and your horse.
Make sure about the type of bridle you choose -will it suit your horse and the disciplines you’d like to ride in? A Google search on bitless bridles will yield thousands of results.
When it comes down to basics though, there are mostly two types of bitless bridle –
- the cross-under style that works on whole head pressure, and
- the side-pull style that works mostly on nose pressure.
The cross-under style bridles will generally require the noseband to be fitted firm for safe riding as well as correct and efficient function of the design.
Your horse may respond better to one style over another so its worth getting one of each type to try out. Most companies selling them allow you to return the bridle within a certain time if it doesn’t suit your horse. As with any new piece of equipment though, you probably need to give your horse enough time to adapt and learn how to respond before deciding which bridle to keep.
How has your horse been ridden until now?
What we do as riders ultimately affects how our horse responds to a bitless bridle. If you have already been riding from the seat with a light rein contact the switch to the bitless bridle will be much smoother.
Fitting the bridle:
Wearing the bridle for a while will reveal if your fit is correct. Most commonly, the noseband can slip down as the headpiece settles in behind the ears. The crossover style bridles such as the Dr Cook require a slightly lower noseband position than the side-pull styles – generally 3 finger widths below the prominent cheek bones is a good starting point. Adjusted properly, the noseband sits on the bone between the false nostrils and does not cause pain. Fitted no lower than this, it is anatomically impossible for it to obstruct breathing – they’re not called ‘false’ nostrils for nothing! Fitted higher or looser like the noseband on bitted bridles, the noseband on the cross-under design can ride up and down, which can cause discomfort/pain and may also prevent the pressure from being displaced gently across the whole head.
A well fitting brow band will also help the comfort of the bridle – if it’s too small it will pull the headpiece in tight against the ears and a too large brow band may slip down over the TMJ joint (bony piece above the eye) again causing discomfort.
The rope bitless bridles should also have the cheek pieces come in behind the large jaw bones – almost where the throatlatch would normally sit.
If this causes the noseband to be positioned too high near the prominent cheek bones, then the bridle is too small for your horse.
Something else to check is that the chinstrap (if it has one) fits snugly without being overly tight or loose, and that the reins are the right length for your horse’s neck.
Ideally they should allow you to hold them at ‘the buckle’ without having to stretch forward while your horse stretches down.
Starting with Groundwork:
The best way to check that your horse responds to the bitless bridle is where you are safe – on the ground.
Start by asking your horse to yield to pressure on one rein, first to the left while you are standing at the girth, then do the same on the right side.
If your horse has been taught to yield to a rope halter, this should be a familiar exercise, but remember you are using a new piece of equipment which may put pressure on a different part of the head so accept a small response first.
You will find your horse responds better to a rhythmic ‘asking with on-off pressure’ rein than a steady pull. Any steady pull on the horse’s head usually sets up a brace or causes resistance because this is innate behaviour – your horse is programmed by nature to oppose pressure automatically, until they are educated to understand that certain types of pressure mean certain things.
The cross-under bitless bridle uses this principle; for turning left or right the design applies gentle pressure to the opposite side of the head, so that the horse is moving away, rather than into, the pressure.
When your horse can ‘give’ his head and hold lateral flexion for a few seconds while you give his head a rub or even release the rein totally by dropping it over the neck, it is safe to get on.
But before you do, it is also worth checking that your horse understands turning while in motion so walk your horse and use a directing rein to make turns to the left and right as you are moving.
This also gives you the opportunity to check out stopping. Rather than pulling on both reins together though, ask with a voice command, and a gentle lift and feel on the rein– again in a rhythmic way to get the halt. (When riding your seat will also indicate to the horse to halt – A voice command combined with the seat aid and a rhythmic lift and feel on the rein should make things very clear.)
It’s a good idea to repeat these exercises from each side of the horse so they are learned from both eyes and directions.
One more exercise I like to check on the ground is that my horse can yield the hindquarters to a gentle touch from my stirrup, about where my leg would give the aid.
First, ask your horse to yield their head a little towards you, then while holding this position, press the stirrup rhythmically against the horse’s side. If there is no response to a gentle pressure, rather than give up or get firmer, add a rhythmic upwards lift to the rein. Keep this going with your own energy up and focus on the hindquarters until you get a result. This generally doesn’t take long if you keep up the rhythm on both stirrup and rein.
If you can do this exercise at the standstill, then also try it from the walk and trot to be sure your horse will listen to your leg – this is your emergency brake!
Yielding the head in lateral flexion is like putting on the handbrake, so yielding the hindquarters takes the energy out of the horse’s powerhouse, therefore slowing it down (unless you are doing this in collection to supple the horse through lateral leg yields like half pass, shoulder in etc.)
Starting in the saddle:
This is best done in an enclosed arena or round yard, even a small paddock to be safe.
Start by going through the same exercises you did on the ground; lateral flexion, yielding the hindquarters, then walking, turning, halting and checking your lateral flexion again. (backing up is also exellent)
If your horse responds well at the walk, check out the trot and then the canter if you are up to that stage in your riding. You don’t have to do this all in the first ride!
Check that you can stop by letting your energy down, and also by yielding the hindquarters.
Issues:
Understandably, some riders may be nervous or anxious about riding their
horse the first time without a bit and, unknowingly, use a lot of contact. If your horse is reacting to the bridle with head tossing, pulling, getting anxious or over excited, pawing, grinding their teeth or throwing their head up, it may help to ride with less contact than you have previously been using.
If a rider has been using rein pressure on a bitted bridle to achieve a semblance of what they think of as collection, they will initially be disappointed with the bitless bridle and may even decide that ‘it doesn’t work.’ Bit-induced poll flexion, however, is not the same as true collection … it is false collection.
With patience and proper training, a bitless bridle will provide all the collection that a rider desires. This process cannot and should not be hurried.
An educated horse that easily yields to pressure may even ‘over flex’ in response to the bitless bridle, so use a longer rein and light, rhythmic feel on the reins to offer some ‘give’ in the pressure. Over flexing is a sign the horse is trying to get comfort by avoiding the constant pressure.
When you feel confident that your can control your horse easily and your horse seems happy in the bitless bridle, its time to venture out of the arena.
Rather than throw your horse in the ‘deep end’ by joining a group of friends for a long out ride, just go on your own for a short ride, or with one other sympathetic friend.
Stick to places you know both you and your horse can be relaxed and enjoy the ride. This isn’t the time to test out a new trail, go faster than usual or negotiate obstacles you haven’t tried before.
Once your horse is going comfortably in the bitless bridle, you can then tackle new things, adding pressure in small increments for success. Many riders will find their horse is more relaxed without the worry of a bit in their mouth.
If your horse doesn’t seem happy in the bitless bridle, your horse may still be feeling discomfort elsewhere which was previously masked. The two most common sites are the back from poor saddle fit and the hooves from poor shoeing or trimming practices. Always eliminate all sources of physical pain before embarking on a re-education program. Remember the horse is only ‘misbehaving’ because that is the only way they can tell us something is not right or is hurting them.
A common cause of a ‘bad’ reaction to a bitless bridle may be sharp teeth – especially upper molars. The noseband may be causing pain which cannot be eliminated until the teeth have been floated. Also be careful with the cross-under biltess bridle that you have not trapped any whiskers or long chin hairs under the noseband buckle or cross-under straps.
Sometimes after the first few rides, your horse may be resistant to turning left or right. Most horses, like humans, have their ‘good sides’ and are better in one direction than another, but if this doesn’t improve within 6 rides or so, look for another explanation. A horse that is stiff to turn in a bitless bridle may need some bodywork (supple-ing) or may be reacting to a stiff or crooked rider. Maybe the horse seemed easier to turn in the bit because discomfort in the mouth outweighed everything else.
Use of the Bitless Bridle should not be considered a substitute for education. Although many horses do adapt instantly, or almost instantly, sometimes you do see a few new resistances (or the re-emergence of “old” ones that you thought you had cured when bitted), such as head tossing or rushing. These are typically seen on the first ride only, for obvious reasons. But sometimes they emerge quite suddenly on about the second or third ride.
It may be that the rider has become more confident about the new head gear, and starts to ask for a little more. Then it becomes a matter of fine-tuning and adjustment for the next few rides to give your horse confidence again.
As with any new exercise or piece of equipment you introduce, don’t expect it to be a ‘quick fix’ for a particular problem. Expect an adjustment period and alter your expectations accordingly, and the transition to riding in a bitless bridle will be painless for both you and your horse.
If your transition isn’t going as smoothly as you’d like, rather than give up, seek the assistance of an instructor or approved fitter of bitless bridles experienced in riding with one to help you. Sometimes all it takes is another pair of eyes to pick up something you’ve missed.
There is a growing number of people and horses having a happier time riding now that they have changed to a bitless bridle.
(thanks to my instructor, Sandy)
[QUOTE=Shadow14;3836454]
I was under the impression that a rattler or watermoccasin could bit a horse and cause serious problems?? So you are saying that if a rattler suddenly lunged from under a bush at your horses they wouldn’t be bothered???[/QUOTE]
Yes, those are poisonous, but, we’ve encountered numerous snakes on the trail and I haven’t had a horse spook at one yet! Now, a “lunging” snake might be another matter … :lol:
Thanks for your detailed post, Myster! That’s what I was looking for when I started this thread. :yes:
Some people think that if the horse needs dental care, bitless will be better for him. Not true–sharp teeth still cut. Glad myster mentioned that.
As for stopping power, it is an important consideration. One of my OTTB’s got too strong to be ridden bitless when he was fit (I did not try a mechanical hackamore on him). He was a tough horse to ride in many ways, not just in the bridle. With the noseband, I would constantly have to hold him back. With a bit, I could give him a sharp reminder if needed, but mostly, I could keep him from leaning on his forehand.
He only ran away with me twice (during an endurance ride), and I’m not sure there is a bit in the world that could have prevented that. I’m equally sure that I would not have gotten him stopped without a bit. I had to pull his head up to get him off his forehand–he had his chin tucked near his chest and was going full steam trying to reach racetrack speeds. Getting his head up required some serious working on the bit, among other things. He’s a fast bugger. He was not usually the run-away type, but excitement got the better of him at the endurance ride (that and hearing a horse gallop up behind him).
For the first few rides on the trail, you could carry your bitted bridle and switch to it if your horse tries to ignore the hackamore. I always carry a bit when I ride bitless, in case things get dicey on the trail. I’ve been run away with too many times to be totally confortable not having a bit with me. Gotta love those halter/bridle combo’s that allow you to snap a bit to the bridle any time you need to.