Trauma leading to Agressive Behaviors

[Mardi2]

Stella, my lease mare, has become progressively more aggressive to handle, and her owner is considering euthanizing her - but I feel like we’re missing something.

To preface: Saddle Fit - checked, Ulcers - treated (twice), X-rayed - everywhere (no notable findings), Bloodwork - all of the tests & again, no notable findings…

We have TRIED to try: chiro, Magna wave, massage… etc., but she will not tolerate these people coming near her, even drugged, and I’m not going to ask anyone to put themselves at risk for her.

She is on regumate & vitamin e.

History: Stella is a 14 year old grade mare (most likely tb/wb x)… was once a jumper schoolmaster with miles of ribbons and a record to back it up, was sold to the wrong people & then purchased by her current owner as a project, but she found out she was pregnant shortly after, so has been feed leasing her to me.

On crossties & in her stall, she is intimidating at best & dangerous at worst. She will aggressively - intentionally & with purpose - bite, kick & move into your space. Tacking her up is stressful for anyone involved. Ears pinned if you even look at her.

On the ground otherwise, she is fairly pleasant. Not the kind of mare you can cuddle or dote on, but will stand/walk with you in a pleasant way, with ears forward.

Under saddle, she is the schoolmaster her owner wanted, until she’s not… she is one of those really talented, crafty mares that will roll all the punches - kick, spin, buck combo? rear & spin, then takeoff combo? Rear, launching buck, rear combo?

I mean… she’s incredibly athletic… I’ll give her that.

Sometimes (key word) you can get her through her “not wanting to work” patches by changing pace (ride in a different ring, get off and get back on, jump a little x and then go back to flatting…etc).

The mare LOVES to jump & is extremely adjustable & pleasant to jump around. Sometimes though, if you walk too long between courses, she’ll call it quits and insert one of her famous combos into the lesson.

I really do love this mare, and I have been so grateful to have such a cool teacher. But man are there difficulties in between. Of a 7 day week, I am lucky to get 1 or 2 rideable days.

[GraceLikeRain]

At some point I think the ethics of allowing others to handle a horse like this should come into question. I think the owner is wise to be open to considering euthanasia. Whether it is fear, pain, a brain tumor, or trauma isn’t really relevant in some ways. A horse willing to come after a person can easily kill someone. Horses endure horrific abuse and do not come away with the behaviors you are describing.

I’m surprised and concerned a trainer would teach on a horse that has a violent reaction to being tacked and has a history of dangerous behavior under saddle. It sounds like a kind horse who tries to keep it together but is living in chronic discomfort.

Personally, I’d fully retire and kick her out as a pasture ornament if she’s happy and if not consider euthanasia.

[awaywego]

Has she been checked for granulosa cell tumors? Routine blood work does not necessarily include checking hormone levels.

[Amy3996]

@Mardi2

On crossties & in her stall, she is intimidating at best & dangerous at worst. She will aggressively - intentionally & with purpose - bite, kick & move into your space. Tacking her up is stressful for anyone involved. Ears pinned if you even look at her.

On the ground otherwise, she is fairly pleasant. Not the kind of mare you can cuddle or dote on, but will stand/walk with you in a pleasant way, with ears forward.

Under saddle, she is the schoolmaster her owner wanted, until she’s not… she is one of those really talented, crafty mares that will roll all the punches - kick, spin, buck combo? rear & spin, then takeoff combo? Rear, launching buck, rear combo?

I think it’s admirable that you want to leave no stone unturned, but my $0.02 is that euthanasia absolutely sounds like a valid option for this mare. Sure, it’s very likely that something physical is driving the behavior. Could be a progressive neurologic issue like EDM (although onset at that age would be uncommon from what I understand), or a pain issue that just hasn’t popped up on the vetting so far. The reality is that chasing it down may be difficult, expensive, and maybe impractical.

A horse that cannot be reliably and safely handled on a consistent basis and demonstrates the behaviors you listed… may be best given a humane release from this life.

[Simkie]

How has pain been ruled out? Euthanizing an aggressive horse is, quite frankly, never a “wrong” choice–an aggressive horse can kill a person.

But if a trial of gabapentin hasn’t been attempted, that could be interesting. Improvement would be indicative of nerve pain, which could drive further diagnostics.

A hefty dose of Tylenol could also be tried.

Whatever is wrong with this horse may not be fixable, though. And there are very few safe spaces for outright aggressive horses.

[OzarksRider]

@Mardi2

was sold to the wrong people

Can you tell us more about what you mean that your mare was “sold to the wrong people” and “trauma” that led to aggressive behaviors? I’m wondering whether your mare has a physical problem that causes aggression due to pain or a mental problem from previous bad handling. If you’ve ruled out pain or neurological problems, or at least not definitively diagnosed anything, it might be worth finding a really good cowboy type trainer to evaluate her. And by “cowboy type” I mean someone who really understands horse language and can give you an opinion as to whether this is fixable.

One of my horses came to me with a reputation of being dominant and difficult. He has kissing spine and is not rideable, so that was part of the problem, but he also has a dominant personality and had learned he could push people around–pinning ears, threatening to kick, resisting the farrier, and so on. It took some time and several groundwork move-your-feet sessions, but he understands now that I am the boss mare and he’s actually very docile and more sociable than my riding horse. The right handling can make a world of difference.

[Mardi2]

Her owner is my good friend - I don’t have the resources to retire her myself, but her mom does. I think I might make that suggestion.

[Mardi2]

I knew of the mare while she was showing and had seen her at shows. Her kid went to college and she was sold to a pair of trainers with a terrible record (examples: a horse was lunged to death for ill performance at a show, which was really just awful rider errors; several horses at shows in kill pen condition, or being over ridden/schooled/lunged to exhaustion; horses going around at shows with bloody mouths on several occasions; horses left at their “south” location in Florida with no care for weeks before they could go back and get them & then told people they rescued the horses from kill pens - even though we all knew, despite name changes, they were the same horses their riders were showing in years previous)

Long explanation all to say that these people should not be responsible for any living being. Therefore, I can only imagine what happened with this mare. I should have added that she was very very underweight when my friend bought her for pennies from these people. She was being sold because she was “unrideable” (not entirely untrue at this point). My friend’s intention was a hopefully simple project with the hope that she could do the low level local jumpers.

[Mardi2]

With fairly thorough vetting’s done, for a cheap project that was hopeful to be a simple one, I think the issue is the money spent with no inkling of an answer and still so many possibilities.

Yes, it could be something that hasn’t yet been found by the vet & this is all pain related.

Yes, it could be something behaviorally that we can’t or haven’t or maybe won’t ever have a breakthrough with.

Yes, it could be both.

I guess my frustration is that I’ve seen what this mare looked like in her prime, and its deplorable that she’s had such an unfortunate go at things that she’s so opposite of what she once was.

Speaking to my friend since I’ve posted, I believe pasture retirement will be explored, and if she is well enough to handle safely & with her happiness/QOL in tact, then she can live out her days in the field, otherwise, the euthanasia route will be explored. ’

[Demerara_Stables]

In the grand scheme of things, a session with a horse communicator is quite affordable and may give you some ideas.

[BellaFortuna]

How is she during trims and/or shoeing and other handling? I would want to make sure she could be retired safely as well.

[Sarah616]

Have her hormone levels been looked at? I know you said bloodwork, but has anyone scanned her ovaries at all? Cysts can be very painful (obviously). I’ve also known a couple mates who were spayed at some point in their life to help with attitude issues because their hormones were just wreaking havoc on their bodies. Not sure if this is a super common thing, but a repro vet might be someone to talk to as well

[Mardi2]

No cyst or hormonal issue was found. This was one of the first things looked at after ulcers were addressed. Vet suggested regumate to see if helped.

[Mardi2]

Not as bad as tacking. She’s a little unruly, but manageable and/or can get it done with some drugs if needed. She is not shod, so just trimming is fairly easy.

[FjordBCRF]

@Demerara_Stables

In the grand scheme of things, a session with a horse communicator is quite affordable and may give you some ideas.

I was thinking that or something hands off like reiki. We do reiki a couple times a year and his practitioner has a knack for communication too. I have her do me too when she’s there. The reiki part!

[Djones]

Can I ask if she’s ever just been on a trail ride in the time since you all have come to be her people?

I think she sounds like a horse who has been through It ALL and has no Effs left to give.

[jherold]

I had one that was extremely aggressive on the ground but a dream to ride. We tried everything you have. As a last ditch effort before euthanasia, we started the mare on pergolide. Within a week I had a completely different horse. It worked for a couple years, but she needed the dose increased frequently and was euthanized when they quit making the flavor pergolide she liked and we were increasing the dose every couple months.

[jherold]

My Vet believed she had a malignant pituitary tumor.

[OzarksRider]

From what you say about your mare’s previous “trainers” it seems to me that she has been through quite a lot. And it seems to me, from your description of her current behavior, that she’s a very unhappy horse, and none of this is her fault. She seems to me to be a horse that could really use a break. Could you just turn her out to pasture for a few months and let her just be a horse for a while? You say she is fairly pleasant on the ground . . . is she safe to handle for basic leading, feeding, and farrier work? It might be that she feels claustrophobic and threatened in crossties and in her stall, so can you handle her out of her stall and without crossties? And did she have her foal, or is she still pregnant? I’m wondering if hormones are bothering her.

[4horses]

I would probably try clicker training for good behaviors. This can be done from outside a stall so you can’t get bitten or kicked. There are some excellent videos on how to train mustangs from outside the pen. And a good trainer who can recognize why she acts like she does. Is she being dominant aggressive? Fear aggressive? Resource aggressive? If you want to fix aggression you have to determine what is causing it. Is it pain? Anticipation of pain? Or was she ruined by poor handling.