Hi,
I am in the Dressage Naturally online program and I am curious to know if anyone else has the saddle Karen uses. The thing that appeals to me is that she feels they can fit most horses and are better for their backs. I have a very wide WB and a narrow OTTB so having only one saddle would be a dream. The problem is they are $3000+ and offer no trials. That is quite an investment without being able to try it and I’m worried they aren’t easy to get rid of.
Thanks!
I would never buy a saddle (esp at that price) without being able to try it first. And no, not even a treeless saddle will fit “most horses”. There are certain brands that fit certain types/shapes of horses better than others. And a really good pad is a MUST with a treeless saddle.
I’ll be the first to say that not every horse can go treeless (but treeless may be a better option for some horses), and that a bad treeless saddle will do far, far more damage than a bad treed saddle. Treeless saddles aren’t some magic bullet.
However, I really like Ansurs. They are one of the treeless companies that got it right. My last instructor had and Ansur Classic that she would use on a schoolmaster with huge withers and a bit of a swayback. She had tried tons of treed saddles on him, and none gave him the sort of shoulder mobility that the Ansur did. Now granted, he had some challenging conformation to fit a saddle to. A better conformed (and younger – the sway was due to age) horse may have been served just as well with a treed saddle.
You will need to also invest in the proper saddle pads for the saddle. The pads help create/reinforce a gullet, especially if you go with an Ansur Classic. To not use the proper pads for the saddle is to risk the health of the horse.
As for riding in one: They give you a great sense of your position. If you have problems leaning, you’ll know, because you’ll spin the saddle. This can also be a downside when mounting, or if you need to use a more noticeable seat aid. I have spoken in other threads about my struggles with finding saddles that don’t cause me pain. I’ve found that the Ansur Classic was one of the few saddles that didn’t cause me pain at all. If you have problems with joint pain from riding, it may be a good option for you.
I wouldn’t jump in one. I honestly wouldn’t jump in any treeless saddle. If you like to cross train over fences, then a treeless saddle may not be the best option.
You might be able to get away with using a single Ansur on two horses with disparate measurements. You’ll, again, need to invest in the proper saddle pads to compensate for the different conformations. You may want to have a rep evaluate your situation though. My last instructor used her Ansur on several horses successfully. However, all of them were roughly the same width. The big difference between them was wither height. Using it on a wide horse and a skinny horse may be a different beast. I wouldn’t know.
In short, as far as treeless saddles go, Ansurs are some of the best. If you’re sold on getting a treeless saddle, I think an Ansur would be the way to go. However, not every horse does better in one, and indeed some horses don’t even like them. You may get more bang for your buck from two properly fitted, used treed saddles. If you can contact a rep to at least ride in one, or find someone nearby who has one, do that. They do feel quite different than a treed saddle and that feeling isn’t for everyone.
There are lots of used Ansurs available, as some buy them and like them at first but then fall out of love with them eventually. Some of the older used ones are quite reasonably priced, or at least they were back when I was looking for a treeless saddle so was on some of the for sale groups.
[QUOTE=kande04;8963098]
There are lots of used Ansurs available, as some buy them and like them at first but then fall out of love with them eventually. Some of the older used ones are quite reasonably priced, or at least they were back when I was looking for a treeless saddle so was on some of the for sale groups.[/QUOTE]
Thanks. This is true but none allowing trials and all in my size are older than 2007 which means they need a new trauma system which brings the price almost to the cost of a new custom Ansur.
Omg love the ansur excel. My trainer used to show PSG in hers and told me to get one for my fat pony and said…YOU WILL NEVER NEED ANOTHER SADDLE. She was so right. It doesn’t need any special padding, is perfectly balanced, feels just like a trees saddle and every horse loves them. Only problem is the price point. Super highly recommend!
I can definitely speak to the resale value as I just sold an Ansur Elite and an Excel and took close to a $3,500 hit. They absolutely do not sell fast and are worth about 40-50% less than retail on the used market. You might have luck contacting your local rep and let them know you are in the market for a used one but would like to try it first.
IMO you need to be a very balanced rider to use an Ansur effectively. I am a sometimes unbalanced amateur with a greenish horse. After we switched to a properly fitted treed saddle, our progress really sped up and my mare is much happier.
My experience is similar to twostinkydogs. I bought one several years ago (Carlton model) for a very hard to fit older Arab with a slight sway back. It freed up his shoulders and was helpful for where we were at the time. I too struggled with my balance, and found lateral work difficult as we progressed.
When I got a younger horse, I switched within a year to a treed saddle. Younger horse had been okay in the Ansur, but moved significantly better in the treed saddle, and I had a much easier time being balanced.
I bought my Ansur new, and sold it for about 50% of original retail.
I still like treeless for long trail rides (currently have a freeform), but it wasn’t the right long-term option for me in dressage.
Karen’s saddle is the Classic.
I agree with the resale value dropping. I think they are hugely overpriced to begin with.
I ride a Solution saddle. Also treeless and very traditional looking. I ordered (several years ago) from England and it was still almost $1000 cheaper after customs and taxes.
I also echo that treeless is not the end all or be all of saddles. I wanted the treeless for me and the horse goes fine in it. My part lease rider, rides her in her treed saddle…and she goes fine.
I am also doing a couple of Karen’s programs and I have talked directly to her and she is not hung up on equipment. As long as it fits and the horse is comfortable, she doesn’t care what you use. At least that is what she told me. I have a specific physical problem that makes most treed saddles exceedingly uncomfortable or I would find a good treed saddle.
Susan
I’ve ridden in many treeless saddles including the Ansur Carlton, Barefoot, Ghost, etc.
The Ansur Excel is COMPLETELY different from these saddles. It is very secure, has a narrow twist, rides just like a treed saddle and even has small external blocks. You can’t discount the excel if you haven’t ridden it it…I’m telling you it really is the end all be all of saddles
Pelham Saddlery has six Ansurs for sale on their website and the store has a 7 day trial.
I tried a treeless Ansur on my slightly sway backed high withered Arab cross. The saddle was another client’s of my saddle fitter. We had been through probably 25 treed saddles before that. It did not go well. My horse HATED it. The first way we had the saddle and pads set up he reared after about 40 meters. The second set up we made it maybe 25 meters before he reared. This was at the walk. Neither rear was high but enough to tell me he didn’t like it. So no I would not buy a treeless saddle that I could not either try first or return for a full refund.
Pelham Saddlery is nice to work with. I would talk to them about getting one of their Ansurs on trial.
I had an Ansur classic for a couple of years on a thoroughbred. My mare had a low well fleshed wither and wasn’t narrow though. I really dont think a classic would be a consideration on something narrow or with a prominent spine. The Excel may be worth some consideration.
Also if you have two very different shaped horses, there will be faffing about with different pads no matter what treeless you decide on as it is highly unlikely you’ll be able to plonk on and get the same ride out of each horse.
I have had a few different treeless brands, and ridden in others. I like Barefoot, which is the simplest and most generic design. But only as far as trail riding, super comfortable and big even sweat marks. To ride in the dressage ring, all the cushioning just muffles your aids. Thats the same problem I found with the Freeform and the Heather Moffet Vogue to varying degrees. Some more built up saddles dont give you that close feel it sounds like you are after either.
It will always be a challenge getting two different shapes to go in the same saddle. You’ll probably with care be able to achieve a satisfactory fit with considerate shimming and pads but unlikely you’ll be able to get “optimal”. Without seeing your horses backs it may still be worth investigating as I doubt you’d do any better shimming up a treed saddle either. All the best!
has a series of articles on the damage that treeless saddles can do, and I always wondered why the company took such a hard line – it doesn’t seem like the treeless market would affect them much. I felt that it must have been something Mr. Schleese felt strongly about.
I just checked their web site and they have a 2016 update that points to Hillary Clayton’s research on treeless saddles (circa 2011 I think) – she found definite pressure points in the treeless saddles. That said, I think that for some horses’ backs treeless may work.
A friend has/had the Ansur dressage. Several people, including myself, asked to try it. Even on her relatively smooth gaited horse, a Morgan, people who didn’t not have an independent seat HATED it. I thought it was pretty comfortable, but people who want a deep seated saddle with big thigh blocks to hold them in place were sliding/bouncing around and didn’t like it at all. It’s not what I would choose for myself, but it fit her horse well, and would certainly teach you the value of an independent seat.
I have an Ansur that was the only saddle I could use on my tank of a breeding stock paint. We tried everything, and more than one qualified saddle fitter told me that, if he was happy in it, I should just stick with it. I used it on him all the time for over 10 years.
I personally love it, but I am also a minimalist who loves the feel of the old, flat-as-a-pancake close contact saddles, too. I love that I can so easily feel the horse’s back, and I never had problems with the saddle slipping, even back when I mounted from the ground. Using a neoprene or neoprene-lined girth helps with that.
However, it is not a one-size-fits-all saddle (I have no experience with the newer versions that are designed with the channel for the spine). While it was great for my stock horse, it hasn’t fit either of my TB’s well at all. No matter what sort of padding I used for the one guy, I couldn’t make it work for his shark-finned wither. For the other, it just doesn’t sit right on him. No matter the padding I use for lift at the wither, I’m still tipped forward in it.
For some horses, it can be the perfect saddle, but it definitely isn’t for every horse as the company promotes. I will always keep mine in hopes I get another tank I can use it for because it is my favorite saddle for my personal comfort.
It certainly won’t fit every horse, but my Ansur definitely fits the widest range of horses, out of the saddles I own/owned.
You may also want to look at the Sensation treeless saddles from Nickers Saddlery. I have been riding in their formal dressage saddle for 8 years and would never go back to treed for dressage. My saddle has fit an incredibly wide shouldered WB, shark finned TB, oddly shaped quarter horse, and my current average width and average withered mare. Different padding has been required for different horses, but they have all been very comfortable and never had any back problems (and they are checked regularly). The Sensation saddles are fairly wide in the twist and feel pretty deep in the seat. They are extremely comfortable for me, but some women find them a little too wide in the twist. They offer an excellent trial program and are really great to work with. They are a small business and originally focused on endurance saddles and there are a fair few horses and riders completing some of the toughest rides in them. The price is also very reasonable and, in my experience, they have been easy to re-sell if needed and held their value well.
I’ve been trail riding my mule is a Sensation for at least 10 years, and it seems to work well for him. I got it because I wanted to be able to jump out on trail, and take him to an occasional schooling show, so wanted an English style saddle that wasn’t too expensive. The only treed English saddle I knew of at the time was a custom mule saddle, which would have cost about 6 times what I paid for the Sensation.
I did however, try the Sensation on my higher withered Trakehner, and it would have needed a lot of shimming to even come close to fitting him. But his back is very easy to fit to a conventional treed saddle, so there’s really no good reason to use a treeless on him, anyway.
Ansur Classic Treeless Dressage Saddle
I have been riding in an Ansur Classic for six years. My wide backed Icelandic loves it. I have never had an issue with the saddle slipping, not even when mounting from the ground (which I never do unless there is no alternative). I use a standard thin dressage pad. The Classic does not work for my Appaloosa. I have also had the Ansur Excel - LOVED IT. My wide backed Morgan did very well with it, but it too doesn’t work on my Appy - pinches his withers. So the saddles do not work on every horse. But I much prefer the Ansur treeless to a rigid treed saddle.
Does anyone have any information on the Ansur saddle trauma system and the need to rebuild the trauma system on saddles built before 2007? Do you know when this issue was discovered? I assume in 2008 but I would like something specific if anyone knows. Thanks!
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