Triple Crown 2021

[RoughOut]

Ughhh. I’ve been a huge Baffert fan since Silver Charm. But how does this keep happening in his barn?

I’m a racing fan and not in that industry is this not a high percentage of winners testing positive in one barn? Or is it just more highly publicized? But this is the Kentucky Derby and other graded stakes we are talking about here not the fourth on a Wednesday at Suffolk (RIP).

I’m so conflicted as a horse racing fan. I actually hit the trifecta in the Derby and was so looking forward to the Preakness. Now it feels weird. But on the other hand I have an aged QH gelding in my barn who needs damn near every joint injected to be comfortable so I do understand that an actual performance horse could need anti-inflammatory medication over the course of its career.

I’m looking forward to reading what folks in the industry have to say.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@RoughOut

an actual performance horse could need anti-inflammatory medication over the course of its career.

I don’t think anyone is saying that a ‘performance’ horse could need ant-inflammatories as I think we’d all agree they often do.

I think the issue is allowable levels prior to and race day are clearly defined. In KY, betamethasone is an allowed therapeutic but, this is the kicker, a 14-day withdrawal time and any level of detection on race day is a violation.

It’s not like BB hasn’t been caught with his hand in the cookie jar before. Last November he said he would institute stricter protocols within his barn to prevent ‘drug contamination’ from happening again. BB claims Medina Spirit has never been given betamethasone.

At this time, Medina Spirit has not been disqualified. BB has been suspended by Churchill Down from entering any horses at the track.

TC implications… Will Cox enter Mandaloun in the Preakness after saying Mandaloun would skip? If Medina Spirit is DQd from the Derby, Mandaloun would be the winner.

While BB is suspended at Churchill Downs, the remaining TC races are not run in KY.

BB will be, as is his right, testing the split sample.

What leaves me scratching my head, is BB has got to know that the winner of the KD will be drug tested.

Do I like BB? Not particularly. But, is he and/or his staff really this arrogant to think he can drug and not get caught given the number of issues he’s had in recent years?

True, we don’t hear about the trainers that train at lower tier tracks but we don’t hear about other BNTs at the top tier tracks with these same drug issues in their barns.

[Willesdon]

@Where_sMyWhite

Do I like BB? Not particularly. But, is he and/or his staff really this arrogant to think he can drug and not get caught given the number of issues he’s had in recent years?

Lance Armstrong comes to mind.

[halo]

Just for fun, I looked at my Equibase stats as an owner. My partner and I train our own, and have for 40 years. I have 512 starts. The only positive I ever had, was a testosterone positive that no one could understand, until we found out that the gelding we were racing was actually a double cryptorchid. I realize Im not Bob Baffert, but there are dozens of other trainers with large stables, without the string of non stop positive results. Bettors have been weary of betting Baffert horses for a while now, this might put a seal on that very large stream of money into the sport. And who would blame them? How many hundreds of thousands (or more) has been lost on Baffert horses that have been subsequently dq’d, other horses put up, and by then people had tossed their tickets (except maybe the wise ones holding their tickets until the tests came back). Funny thing; on another site I was on Derby Day, after the race with everyone being excited, I stated that I was going to wait for the test. How ironic.

[ravenclaw]

@halo

Funny thing; on another site I was on Derby Day, after the race with everyone being excited, I stated that I was going to wait for the test. How ironic.

Shortly after Medina Spirit won, I remember I thought to myself “Hope he doesn’t test positive.” I feel badly for the horse and the owner and jockey.

[Bluey]

@halo

Just for fun, I looked at my Equibase stats as an owner. My partner and I train our own, and have for 40 years. I have 512 starts. The only positive I ever had, was a testosterone positive that no one could understand, until we found out that the gelding we were racing was actually a double cryptorchid. I realize Im not Bob Baffert, but there are dozens of other trainers with large stables, without the string of non stop positive results. Bettors have been weary of betting Baffert horses for a while now, this might put a seal on that very large stream of money into the sport. And who would blame them? How many hundreds of thousands (or more) has been lost on Baffert horses that have been subsequently dq’d, other horses put up, and by then people had tossed their tickets (except maybe the wise ones holding their tickets until the tests came back). Funny thing; on another site I was on Derby Day, after the race with everyone being excited, I stated that I was going to wait for the test. How ironic.

Our stable ran for 25+ years and never had a positive.
We had the leading stable two seasons, not just running a couple horses.
Then, it was in the 60-70-to mid 80’s, a different world, only really ratty trainers would go there and try to cheat and hope horse’s urine would not show it, always finding new stuff that would not tests, but of course eventually they were caught as testing kept improving.

Today, with the refined testing, is foolish to not be super careful about contamination, much less try to beat the system with drug tricks.
That is what doesn’t quite make sense, that such top trainer would be going there and seems keeps getting positives, especially in such a big race?

[lockedoutalter]

I mean, all that comes to mind are all of the top hunter trainers that keep getting positives but no one cares. Until he loses business or is actually shut out of racing he won’t stop.

[RoughOut]

@Where_sMyWhite

don’t think anyone is saying that a ‘performance’ horse could need ant-inflammatories as I think we’d all agree they often do.

I guess this was more in response to people on Facebook being like ‘OMG doping the horses’ but you are right, all of us (at least so far) agree that this particular medication has use in a performance horse, or a pasture puff , but what is weird is Baffert saying the horse never had it ever.

Logical thinking is definitely that it had an injection and was in the withdrawal period.

Its like a bad employee that has a different excuse for being late to work every single day. At some point you know they just aren’t waking up on time. I dont think anyone is going to believe the “lidocaine from the salon pas on the tongue tie” type story again. Its a shame.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Willesdon

Lance Armstrong comes to mind.

Lance did both blood doping and PEDs, primarily EPO . I personally believe Armstrong was arrogant thinking he wouldn’t be caught and knowing testing at the time was not as extensive as it is today. Additionally, EPO can be hard to detect as the body produces it naturally.

BB, I keep coming back to arrogant or stupid or both. Why on earth would any trainer of a top horse risk a positive test in a big race. Arrogant would be you think you won’t get caught. BB just can’t be that stupid, or is he?

Yup, Lance continued to deny, deny, deny for many years. Yup, BB continues to claim contamination and no records. Is BB really willing to risk everything that getting caught means (and not just to him personally, but the jockeys, owners, future stud deals… something that Lance didn’t have to really deal with).

Am I defending BB? No, I am asking WTF is he thinking… does he think he’s that slick that these drug tests will continue to slide off horses he trains if he continues to get positives?

[skydy]

This is so disappointing. Is there any chance the horse had joint injections that were not disclosed or recorded and that’s why Baffert is denying use of the drug?

This just keeps happening and we all keep saying "why would anyone do that/take that chance? " but it’s happening too often for “environmental contamination” and he gets away with it.

I know the KHRC (and whomever else will deal with this) really don’t want to disqualify another Kentucky Derby winner.

The world is watching . It’s on the front “page” of the online Washington Post and the New York Times.

[Mara]

@skydy

This is so disappointing. Is there any chance the horse had joint injections that were not disclosed or recorded and that’s why Baffert is denying use of the drug?

This just keeps happening and we all keep saying "why would anyone do that/take that chance? " but it’s happening too often for “environmental contamination” and he gets away with it.

I know the stewards (and whomever else will deal with this) really don’t want to disqualify another Kentucky Derby winner.

The world is watching . It’s on the front “page” of the online Washington Post and the New York Times.

Our local news stations NEVER cover racing. Ever. The Kentucky Derby might have gotten a minute and a half or so at the end of that night’s sportscast.
Within an hour of the story breaking that Medina Spirit’s test came back positive, all three stations’ FB feeds had a post on it. That’s the public face of horse racing that most of the country sees…cheating, doping, animal abusers.
Baffert is asking the state to have their vets pull hair to test for betamethasone; he’s that certain Medina Spirit has never been dosed with it. If he’s really unaware of what his horses are and aren’t getting, or if “environmental contamination” is such a problem, well, maybe that’s a sign that your barn is too freaking big for you to manage, Bob.

[Event_Horse]

Halo said: Bettors have been weary of betting Baffert horses for a while now, this might put a seal on that very large stream of money into the sport. And who would blame them? How many hundreds of thousands (or more) has been lost on Baffert horses that have been subsequently dq’d, other horses put up, and by then people had tossed their tickets (except maybe the wise ones holding their tickets until the tests came back

To quote the article in The Blood Horse: “Changes are not made to pari-mutuel payoffs as a result of post-race disqualifications…”

[skydy]

Remember Jason Servis talking with his vet Rhein about SGF-1000? Rhein said “There’s not a test for it in America”. He said If anything, it would show up as a false positive for Dexamethasone.

15th paragraph here; https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/238964/servis-navarro-among-27-facing-doping-related-charges

[Maythehorsebewithme]

Glad that Mandaloun is not running in the Preakness. Can you imagine if MS get dq’d, Mandaloun declared winner, wins Preakness, wins Belmont (I know, I know, small chance), is he a Triple Crown winner?

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Maythehorsebewithme

Glad that Mandaloun is not running in the Preakness.

Earlier today Brad Cox says regardless of the outcome, Mandaloun will not run in the Preakness.

Also earlier today, TSG announced the Preakness post position draw was moved to May 11 from May 10.

[Laurierace]

I do not understand the point of moving the draw to Tuesday, they are unlikely to know anything they don’t already know by then. Bob is entitled to test the split sample and until the results of that are back and the findings confirmed it is business as usual.

[ASB_Stars]

And then, we have the appeals…

[Zonderpaard]

I dunno. Might be a very good day.

For cleaning house in sport.

[ASB_Stars]

Good piece from Sports Illustrated on the Baffert situation.

Baffert's Leaking Credibility Reaches Saturation Point

[snaffle1987]

I am just here to reiterate my statement from above where I was responding about Medina Spirit’s Derby win: how I was happy for the horse and his rags to riches story but Bob’s continuous drug positives and his lack of accountability and consequences leave a bad taste in my mouth.

I realize that Medina Spirit was out of not so showy or commercial pedigree. Sired by a relatively unknown young sire; for many the desire to purchase a horse like him in a sale is not very high. But didn’t Medina Spirit have the 2nd fastest breeze at the 2 yr old in training sale? Or did I misread that information in one of the articles? I realize a lot of factors go into the price paid at public auction for a 2 yr old; pedigree often being a big factor. Maybe the reason why he only sold for $35k was due to vetting issues. Speculation; yes. Out of the question? no.

He is not the prettiest legged creature. quite a bit crooked in the front end; I can say I didn’t pay much attention to it prior but you can really see it in this video at the 2:18 mark of him coming off the track yesterday at Churchill. Right front?
Baffert horses training May 9 for Preakness Stakes - YouTube

Positive could be from joint injections or even a topical cream of sorts. This corticosteroid isn’t only found in injection form.