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Turnout and attitude adjustment, but not for the better?

Horse Care
#1

While my horse was getting his pedicure today my farrier (also the BO) and I were chatting about how my horse’s attitude had changed dramatically in the past few months, and not for the better. He is in amazing physical shape which I have attributed part of it, but he’s been fit in the past without having a major attitude. There have been no changes to his diet (I cut back his MSM early this year thinking that would help. Nope), routine (still gets work 4-5 days a week, sometimes 6), or anything else.

The only major change has been turnout. He’s getting MORE turnout than he was over the winter and early this spring when it was rainy and muddy. I hadn’t even thought of it until today when my farrier was telling me they have had that problem with a handful of horses in the past (they are Western riders/ trainer, I event). I know my horse is happy. He’s healthy, fit, and besides from being attached to his neighbor, doesn’t get worked up over much. But under saddle he has gotten a bit big for his britches: throwing tantrums, not settling when something sets him off, etc. He has had full physical work-ups and we have found nothing. He gets body work done regularly and both the chiropractor and massage therapist comment on how great he looks. I just wish his brain would catch up as I feel like we haven’t made much progress on our flatwork all summer, despite taking a few lessons (not able to be in a regular program but my trainer does hop on from time to time when I can’t have a lesson for a few weeks).

Suggestions?

#2

It could be a million things. But any changes to his program would be the first things I’d investigate. Herd bound comes to mind. You said he had a full work up, but pain/discomfort is a top reason why horses throw tantrums or otherwise refuse to do work they were once happy doing. It could be a training issue – he’s learned your number and tests you when he can. More details about the undesired behavior you are experiencing might be helpful.

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#3

How old is your horse?

This sounds so repetitive, but have you looked for/considered ulcers?

#4

I’ve committed quite a few horses to the full-turnout life and while initially the more stallbound horses view it as cruel exile, every single one of them has come around to it and been happier, better adjusted, and more relaxed with more turnout. I have never had a single horse get worse only undersaddle because of increased turnout time.

I am very skeptical his issues stem from “too much turnout”. IME that is not a thing. Even a herdbound horse would be bad all the time, not only under saddle.

I caution you against using words like “too big for his britches” next to “throwing a tantrum”. To me that misbehavior is text-book physical discomfort - not settling, being anxious, throwing tantrums are all parallel to major physical discomfort issues I have seen manifest into behavioral changes.

Usually it is saddle fit, back-soreness from illfitting tack and/or kissing spine or old SI complaints, sometimes it is ulcers… but any time they are only bad under saddle you can be sure it is a physical cause and not a temperamental one.

11 Likes
#5

I’d agree that a horse’s behavior rarely changes for the worse dramatically without there being some physical issue. In addition to the list that others have provided, I’d add lyme disease as a possibility. Lyme can cause body-soreness and heightened sensitivity both to touch and to external stimuli generally, as well as causing (in some horses) mild arthritis type symptoms that can alter a horse’s behavior when asked to work under saddle.

#6

He’s 12. I have considered ulcers and did a trial run of treating with no changes. He’s on a daily ulcer preventative.

Yes, I realize this points to pain, hence why he’s had a full workup. He is not due for more injections for a few more months. He carries himself better than he ever has in the past and nearly every single ride he displays signs of using himself properly, ie foamy butt cheeks, offering to stretch down, sweat patterns, etc.

Not every single ride results in this behavior. I apologize, it was late when I typed the OP. Perhaps I should have thought on it for a bit longer. I strongly suspect the fact that he is in his peak, physically, has a large part in this behavior. I have not been able to ride outside of the arena much this summer because the bugs have been HORRIBLE, which set him off on an entirely different meltdown. To be fair to him, I didn’t blame him a bit for that; the last time we tried to hack around the field we were both covered in mosquitoes and miserable. I am anxiously awaiting fall for this reason.

@beowulf I don’t like using those phrases, but I promise that is exactly how it feels, and even a couple other people have made the same remarks. The tantrums really come out when we work on our canter to the left, which has always been his weaker side. The jump trainer I haul out to every couple of weeks has given me more tools for when he acts up (thankfully he displayed a mild tantrum last time we saw him). I try not to hammer on anything and do not ask him for more than he is capable of.

The reason I actually gave this comment more than half a thought is because he really is worse, behavior wise, now than he was over the winter when turnout was decreased, but he also wasn’t as physically fit. Our first winter in the Midwest he was nearly on complete stall rest with limited turnout in the indoor arena due to the mud and he was totally fine, but once again he wasn’t nearly this fit.

Reading back over everything I have typed makes me realize this is most likely him being bored and fit as a fiddle. Amazing how sometimes just saying things out loud or writing them down helps. He has a chiro adjustment this Friday so we shall see what she finds!

#7

I was going to say he’s more fit, and compared to being turned out, working isn’t fun.

For horses that are stalled a lot, getting out of their stall is enjoyable. For horses that get pulled out of the pasture to go to “work” it may not be quite the same.

BUT - “The tantrums really come out when we work on our canter to the left, which has always been his weaker side.” suggests a physical issue of some sort. Having to work through weakness sounds like it may be either hard or painful, or both.

I might consider trying to get high quality video of the horse working in both directions and really looking at it carefully. Just because a vet evaluation didn’t identify anything specifically doesn’t mean it’s not there. (What did your “full workup” include, anyway?)

If he’s only 12 and he’s getting joint supplement/injections already, I would be looking for a physical cause.

4 Likes
#8

[QUOTE=S1969;n9856790]

I might consider trying to get high quality video of the horse working in both directions and really looking at it carefully. Just because a vet evaluation didn’t identify anything specifically doesn’t mean it’s not there. (What did your “full workup” include, anyway?)
/QUOTE]

Totally agree. Walk, trot, Canter under saddle, walk/trot in a straight line, walk/trot/canter on the line, hard surface, soft surface, etc. get a full picture of what’s going on. Upload the videos and slow them down. Are all legs tracking evenly? Do the hinds move in the same motion or is there toe dragging or a leg getting left behind?

Acting up only during a specific activity immediately makes me think pain.

#9

Maybe he’s just tired and muscle sore. Not sure what you mean by more turn out but when my mare is “over tired”, for whatever reason, she will still keep trying to work for me but will have melt downs and misbehave under saddle because her body is tired and sore. Once we figured out what was going on we are VERY careful about how much and what type of work she does and for how long and we make her stop working because she will not. To my non horsey friends I liken it to an over tired child that has a temper tantrum but will not sleep unless you make them. :wink:

1 Like
#10

Your pretty much describing my horse! He’s one for throwing tantrums to the right which is his weaker direction. And thats all they are - tantrums because its hard and because he can. He’s also worse in the summer. I swear he’s the opposite of every other horse. The weather turns cold and he becomes a quiet lazy slug. The weather warms up and he gets hot headed. Its the strangest thing! One thing I started doing is rewarding him if we got through a ride tantrum free. He’d get a handful of cookies the second I got off. He’s real smart and he has my number but he picked up real quick that if he behaves he gets cookies and if he throws a tantrum he doesn’t. I also try to mix things up a lot. Round pen work, hand walking hills, field work, ring work. Usually not the same thing two days in a row. I don’t think your horse is in pain - I think he’s smart and trying to get out of doing work!

#11

I may have overlooked if you investigated saddle fit yet, but if he’s fitter and using himself like never before, he could be getting a pinch somewhere. There may be a tight spot that really only catches when he’s working to the left. It might not be bad enough to show up on a lameness exam, and when he’s standing the saddle may look and feel fine but it’s enough for him to tell you otherwise at work.

Consider how much a horse’s musculature changes between standing still at ease and working in a proper lifted carriage. It can make a big difference how the saddle sits.

3 Likes
#12

@btswass YES!! That last sentence has been mentioned by three different trainers at different times of this process. Our horses may be related. :lol: While the tantrums mostly come out at the left lead canter they are not restricted to just the left lead canter. A few weeks ago one of the workers was power washing equipment and we could see and hear him through the big open door of the indoor arena. The first fifteen minutes of my ride were fantastic. Then all of a sudden my horse decided he was done, and used the power washer (which had been running off and on the entire tme) as an excuse to spook, snort, camel, and ignore me. There was absolutely no pain involved, that was just him wanting to be finished and getting mad when he still had to work. I absolutely hate being stuck in the ring day after day, and with winter around the corner I REALLY can’t wait for the bugs to die down so we can venture out.

I work for a vet office. When I say a full work-up, I mean, quite literally, a full work-up. Xrays, lameness exams, neuro, bloodwork, the whole nine yards. I’m shocked that someone said “Already getting injections at 12”. Well, he’s an event horse, not a pasture puff?? Some horses can go longer without injections, some can’t. Just like some people can get by without taking an Aleeve every day, but I am not one of them. :lol: We have him on a very careful maintenance schedule (yes, at 12) that has taken a few years to figure out. This is why he gets adjusted regularly, I have the multi-dose vial of Adequan, and will most likely have hocks done in November. I know how he feels when something is off with him, and he has a very consistent history. He does not feel that way right now.

@WNT I have had my saddles looked at several times by a fitter and my chiropractor. My dressage saddle is wool and was just worked on in May, but I’m doing an experiment and only riding in my jump saddle to see if it makes a difference as that is the saddle that seems to make him the most happy and comfortable right now. I plan on riding my dressage test in it as well. My goal is to sell my current dressage saddle and save up over the fall/winter for something that fits both of us a bit better. I actually just noticed after our ride last night (he was good!) that the dip behind his shark fin TB withers has filled in a bit. His topline looks great, and the saddle fit could play a part. However, when he had a meltdown the other day he was in my jump saddle, so not exclusive to any one piece of tack.

#13

Oh don’t even get me started on finding things to spook at to end the ride faster. Thats one of his go to moves! I think he has only legitimately spooked twice. After he got me off in February doing one of his canter tantrums I decided I had had enough and wasn’t going to put up with his antics any more. You’ll just have to find what works for him to break this cycle. The more you let it go on, the more he will think he can get away with it. Even if you are stuck in a ring now you can still switch it up. Lunge him one day, do some gymnastic grids another day, ground work day (excellent for working on lateral exercises), and a long and low day. Really mix it up, don’t take shit from him, and reward him when he is good (like I said treats really worked for my horse). Good luck!

Just re reading this. Are you only riding in the indoor? Do you have an outdoor you can ride in? My horse is 10x worse when he’s in the indoor. Its like when he only can see snippets of the outside he gets mad but when he’s outside he’s considerably better.

#14

I’ve never given up when he throws a fit. There are times I wish I could…as it would result in a shorter ride, but I at least stay on and push through. Even if we don’t end with him tracking up perfectly, he doesn’t get put away after a tantrum. There have been a few times where I felt myself getting angry (I’m human and admit my mistakes) so I got off and lunged him with one side rein. But he definitely didn’t get to stop working.

I definitely need to find a way to end this cycle. What I really want is to send him to my jump trainer for a long weekend of boot camp, but he’s traveling so much right now it’s not feasible.

I ride in the outdoor as much as possible but it depends on what is going on at the barn. If there are a bunch of lessons outside I ride inside, and vice versa. If the bugs are horrid we stay in. The other day we got a random downpour that had the outdoor’s footing super swampy, so we had to stay in.

#15

@runNjump86 is he a thoroughbred by any chance? Would be funny if our horses actually are related. I ride at the barn up the road from me (horse lives home) and it just happens to be a western barn. Having one of the western trainers at the place you board hop on and cowboy him around a bit might be just what he needs. It definitely helped us.

#16

I dunno, one thing perhaps: is he getting enough lying flat out sleep? I do have a horse who changes a little if she’s out full time because she won’t sleep lying down nearly as much or as long. She just really likes snoozing in her stall.

I’d think you’d see other issues if he was sleep deprived, but who knows. Maybe getting a little tantrum-y is how he’s telling you.

#17

It’s due to the rider. You are not handling his behavior issues properly and he is somehow being “rewarded” for acting up, so he is doing it more and getting better at it.

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#18

Well his reward is to keep working until he stops, either by riding him through it or lunging if I start to lose my temper. :slight_smile: That’s one hell of a reward!

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#19

I have no idea. I’ve only seen him laying down three times since I’ve known him, and that’s been over five years now. He comes in late afternoon and is in his stall overnight. I would THINK he does, but definitely something to think about?

#20

I completely agree with Beowulf. It is further supported by the fact that you said he is more fit now than before. Fitness levels cause changes in musculature, which changes how a saddle fits.

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