[QUOTE=Jim R;8673469]
Now it can be buried in the racing forum where only the people in the industry can justify anything they do to win a race. I guess it is about 10%,maybe lower in the industry that care about the horses that are not making them money.:mad:[/QUOTE]
…and again. Conjecture and yet accusations of the same.
[QUOTE=cloudyandcallie;8673635]
All the studies I’ve ever read on TB development/growth have said that their legs have not fused (maybe wrong term for joint development?) at age 2. [/QUOTE]
I assume you are talking about knees fusing? Many, if not most TBs knees fuse early in their 2 year old year. We xray before doing any speed work and I know we’re not the only TB owners who do so.
Barbaro’s sire Dynaformer was a great source for both stout builds and stamina. Barbaro inherited a good deal of his sire’s heft along with his propensity to run a distance of ground. I think very few people who saw him would agree with you that he had spindly legs. (I found a picture but don’t have a way to post it here.)
As for Eight Belles and your implication about doping, Larry Jones (her trainer) was horrified when the press jumped to the conclusion that she broke down because of drugs. Her remains were extensively tested by the Kentucky racing commission and the results were made public. She ran on nothing.
Just discovered the UC-Davis website. A great read with lots of studies mentioned for further education.
"We have…
discovered that most fatalities due to a skeletal injury are predisposed by horses training or racing with a pre-existing injury (Figure 1)
demonstrated risk factors for some injuries include …
hoof conformation
toe grabs
training intensity
lay-up enhanced
diagnostic techniques for detection of mild injuries"
Notice it does not mention AGE or DRUGS. Drugs do not CAUSE breakdowns. The catastrophic injuries are caused by pre-existing injuries that don’t hold up to racing. It’s up to the trainers, owners and vets to recognize this risk and get the horse healthy, and not just try to hold the horse together from race to race.
[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8673617]
Aqha does have the biggest numbers, but not in any one particular sporT do these horses all get dumped from. I was clearly pointing out sport, not breed. Reading comprehension goes a long, long way.[/QUOTE]
But the sport you are pointing to, the one the Preakness is a part of, is a contest involving only one breed, TBs.
ETA I do not think it helpful to lump all racing together, combining Arab, QH, Appaloosa, TB and STB together makes it a very broad brush with which to paint … the conformation, structure, maturation, and the style of racing differ so greatly amongst those and the other racing there is…
[QUOTE=Bluey;8673638]
When those numbers are compiled, “quarter horse” is an assumption, horses counted didn’t come with registration papers.
Many/most were grade horses of unknown ancestry, “of quarter horse type”.[/QUOTE]
It is an assumption only because by the time horses reach the kill pen, they generally don’t have their papers with them.
There are more quarterhorse registered in this country than any other breed. The last numbers I saw exceeded 100K per year. Therefore, it is reasonable to believe that they are also the higher percentage in the kill pen.
Additionally, the AQHA supports slaughter.
Finally, the TB people, as a group, have done fantastic work to provide safety nets for those horses who cannot perform at the track… Re-Run, Canter, the TB Retirement group, MidAtlantic- all great organizations doing great things. If the AQHA has a rescue group that is specifically for their horses, I haven’t heard of it, but it would be interesting to knw.
Devil’s advocate, but studies have uncovered the uncomfortable truth, IIRC, that Lasix disrupts the normal calcium loss and replacement system in a horse for 30 days after administration. To me that seems to indicate that horses who run on Lasix should not be allowed to race for more than 30 days after their previous race.
Edited to state that I remembered a 2013 Bloodhorse story wrong. It was 3 days, not 30; and the study setup was questionable.
[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8673694]
Your opinion is only valid if it is backed up by facts. Your enjoyment has nothing to do with it.[/QUOTE]
Facts are numbers, not a personal history in every single topic one is passionate about.
[QUOTE=Angela Freda;8673741]
But the sport you are pointing to, the one the Preakness is a part of, is a contest involving only one breed, TBs.
ETA I do not think it helpful to lump all racing together, combining Arab, QH, Appaloosa, TB and STB together makes it a very broad brush with which to paint … the conformation, structure, maturation, and the style of racing differ so greatly amongst those and the other racing there is…[/QUOTE]
I was definitely talking about tb racing and nothing else.
[QUOTE=ASB Stars;8673747]
It is an assumption only because by the time horses reach the kill pen, they generally don’t have their papers with them.
There are more quarterhorse registered in this country than any other breed. The last numbers I saw exceeded 100K per year. Therefore, it is reasonable to believe that they are also the higher percentage in the kill pen.
Additionally, the AQHA supports slaughter.
Finally, the TB people, as a group, have done fantastic work to provide safety nets for those horses who cannot perform at the track… Re-Run, Canter, the TB Retirement group, MidAtlantic- all great organizations doing great things. If the AQHA has a rescue group that is specifically for their horses, I haven’t heard of it, but it would be interesting to knw.[/QUOTE]
Aqha actually has a rescue program that breeder’s can sign up their horses for (according to my BO) but how many people take advantage of it, I have no idea.
[QUOTE=Angela Freda;8673393]
That would be the AQHA… by a landslide.
And as Viney wrote, the AQHA has not instituted [to my knowledge] a single rescue or rehoming venture like the ones the TB industry has.
To say that you are speaking of a sport and not a breed, when the only breed that races in these races that we are discussing are of one breed, TBs, is kinda disingenuous.
A lot of bad can be said about the TB industry, but keeping it factual and honest is the better way to argue the points that do apply.[/QUOTE]
The AQHA was the first to instigate what is known as The Full Circle program which allows past owners to be notified when a horse needs rehomed. https://www.aqha.com/membership/resources/advocacy/full-circle/
[QUOTE=Jim R;8673409]
The sport, not the breed. Are you aware of other breeds that race?
Let’s just start with SB’s. They do a great job rehoming, where would the Amish get their horses if not for the SB industry.[/QUOTE]
not so sure that is always a positive though…
[QUOTE=roseymare;8673773]
The AQHA was the first to instigate what is known as The Full Circle program which allows past owners to be notified when a horse needs rehomed. https://www.aqha.com/membership/resources/advocacy/full-circle/[/QUOTE]
Yes, thank you for finding it.
[QUOTE=tbchick84;8672958]
I can’t imagine what that must feel like to see your own horse coming down the stretch. I had goosebumps just watching my OTTB’s old races on race replay. That has to be the stuff heart attacks are made of!
We lost two horses this spring to pasture accidents. Both broken legs just from horse-ing around with their buddies. It certainly can happen anywhere under any circumstance. I’m sorry for both those horses and their connections.[/QUOTE]
Honestly? All I’m thinking is “Hit the wire first.” The notion of our horses breaking down is the last thing on my mind when they run. I worry more that my riding horse will be doing something stupid in the field and I’ll get that call because he’s running up and down hills on sand and mud that isn’t groomed flat, around trees and fence posts and two goats who aren’t always the sharpest tools in the shed. The active runners? I mostly want them to win (at least Boss hit the board this time and with a little more distance would have had the leaders, too.) I’d be more scared if they were eventers being asked to jump fences that will break their necks or backs before the obstacles themselves break.
And aortic aneurysms are a nightmare for ANY horse. Remember Hickstead? Though I think the worst is one dropping in a schooling/family/county-fair show with a kid who’s then traumatized. You can’t see it coming, there’s nothing you can do, the horse is just dead. Homeboykris was like Hickstead–fine one minute, dead the next.
[QUOTE=danceronice;8673791]
And aortic aneurysms are a nightmare for ANY horse. Remember Hickstead? Though I think the worst is one dropping in a schooling/family/county-fair show with a kid who’s then traumatized. You can’t see it coming, there’s nothing you can do, the horse is just dead. Homeboykris was like Hickstead–fine one minute, dead the next.[/QUOTE]
Swale.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8673758]
Devil’s advocate, but studies have uncovered the uncomfortable truth, IIRC, that Lasix disrupts the normal calcium loss and replacement system in a horse for 30 days after administration. To me that seems to indicate that horses who run on Lasix should not be allowed to race for more than 30 days after their previous race.[/QUOTE]
Good topic, but link the studies you are referring to. Has there been a conclusion that using Lasix places horses at a greater risk if they run within 30 days of having been administered Lasix? How much of a “disruption” is significant? What is a “disruption” anyway?
[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8673763]
Facts are numbers, not a personal history in every single topic one is passionate about.[/QUOTE]
I understand. But if you are going to be passionate about something, at least understand what the facts and research support. The best way to improve safety and reduce fatalities is to understand the CAUSE and takes steps to reduce it. I encourage you to visit the UC-Davis website and read some of the studies referenced. You can then focus your passion in a way that will truly improve the situation.
[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8673830]
Good topic, but link the studies you are referring to. Has there been a conclusion that using Lasix places horses at a greater risk if they run within 30 days of having been administered Lasix? How much of a “disruption” is significant? What is a “disruption” anyway?[/QUOTE]
I wonder how it pertains to standardbreds. They race weekly.
I think that there are studies that conclude that wild horse are bleeders as well. We simply need more studies. I tend to think we should phase lasix out out but that is just my feeling.
[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8673768]
Aqha actually has a rescue program that breeder’s can sign up their horses for (according to my BO) but how many people take advantage of it, I have no idea.[/QUOTE]
Not just breeders, anyone that owns an AQHA registered horse in their name, as they transfer the horse to the new owner, can check that, if the horse needs a home, they be contacted.
We have, so do many others, breeders or just owners in the life of that horse.
That also helps those that want to know more about the horse they bought, that then have permission to contact that person to ask more about the horse, if they didn’t buy him from the last owner of record.
How many in specific numbers? That I don’t know.
[QUOTE=roseymare;8673880]
I wonder how it pertains to standardbreds. They race weekly.[/QUOTE]
Probably the same would apply but they are either on Lasix or off it…some tracks do not allow it and there is some evidence that Lasix is useless at higher elevations; don’t ask, I don’t remember where it came from but was likely WCVM. If there was a holdover after using Lasix, the horse would have to qualify before every start
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