Two week trial, disunited canter

[Riponite]

I’ve been shopping for a new horse suitable for new adult beginners, and I’ve found this lovely 2006 gentle 15.3 TB. She raced seven times, then fox hunted, then was trained as an equitation horse, sold to a beginner teenager who showed successfully in walk trot classes then freaked out at the idea of cantering her. BO says girl was taken to several trainers but would not put work in and horse was pretty much dumped on BO. She’s been out of work for a year before owners told BO to sell her. Now BO is bringing her back into work she is offering disunited canter on one lead, although BO says she can push her through into the correct one.

She is everything I am looking for, except for this issue. She has no ouch spots (groomed her myself), happy to be girthed up, happy to be mounted. Her canter transitions on both sides were so straight and gentle and into just the kind of rocking horse canter you want beginners to experience. She will work on the bit though she needs reminding. I was doing my test ride in the middle of an uneven field with loose horses, so she had terrain to contend with as well as strange rider, so I tried canter on that rein twice and decided it was best left for trial.

So, the owner says we can have her for a two week trial. Budget is slim but will cover basic vetting and a couple of x-rays. What would you do with this horse in this much time to work out what the issue is? We have a decent arena and between a couple of people she can be ridden or lunged up to five or six days a week.

[Come_Shine]

Unless you are OK with what she is - a walk/trot horse - I would pass.

That is not to say she can’t or won’t canter. However, you already know that it is difficult enough for her that, despite the teenager’s commitment to going to many different trainers, she still couldn’t get the canter worked out.

The problem could be a lot of different things - from saddle fit to a skeletal problem. Do you want to spend your time and money trying to chase down an issue that affects the primary gait you need to work in?

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[rememberthenight]

It could be a lack of fitness. It could be much worse. I would worry trying to get fitness that quickly will cause additional soreness for her. More extensive vetting could be helpful but that takes $$.

A better situation would to take 4-6 weeks to increase her fitness and see how the canter improves. Then vet and consider buying at that point.

[tinah]

Have the stifle on the sticky side checked, do two weeks worth of straight lines and walking over ground poles and hill work to strengthen the hind end and see if it doesn’t get better.

[Riponite]

Girl at our barn says could be kissing spine. Do you think getting her vet check done for more money by a lameness specialist would be a good use of funds? As far as hill work goes, she has been out at grass on a hill since the beginning of the year, but at our barn there is no hill I can work her on. We could certainly get her a little fitter, maybe work her over poles and see if that would help to engage her back end a little more. BO says teenager made her work-sour but she seemed willing enough for me.

[OverandOnward]

Compare the cost of getting a more thorough, deeper vet check against the cost of years of support of a horse that is not quite what you want, because no canter and no solution.

That said, you say the previous teenage owner was a ‘timid’ rider (paraphrasing) who ‘would not put the work in’. So, let’s say she lost interest when the going was more challenging, and did not really ask effectively. You haven’t said exactly what the issue is when you ride her, just that you tried her in a field that wasn’t an optimal setting. You say you have a two week trial, which apparently hasn’t yet happened. Where does the disunited canter in the title come in, and how?

Her canter transitions on both sides were so straight and gentle and into just the kind of rocking horse canter you want beginners to experience. … I was doing my test ride in the middle of an uneven field with loose horses, so she had terrain to contend with as well as strange rider, so I tried canter on that rein twice and decided it was best left for trial.

I’m confused. You describe a good canter transition, but then imply you didn’t get a canter transition. Can you explain the first sentence - when and in what context did you see these good transitions, and who was riding? What was their level of experience?

During your test ride in the second sentence, what happened when you “tried canter on that rein twice”? What rein - just one side? Why did you decide not to pursue the transition - was she acting flighty with the other horses so it was behavioral distraction, or was it difficult for her in a physical sense, and if so, how?

You haven’t actually said she doesn’t canter for a rider, in fact, you say she has good transitions to canter. It sounds as if one rider was timid, and in your case there were distractions and perhaps other factors. I’m not sure this means she doesn’t canter for a rider. Perhaps a professional could brush up her transitions and her canter?

Have you seen her canter at liberty? I think that would be helpful to see, in a round pen or even in a field.

Why does your friend say kissing spine? What is causing her to think that? You haven’t described any real symptoms, just implied that there might be a problem with transitions … or maybe it was just distractions in the field?

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

If the horse was trained as an eq horse (and successful at it), she should have walk/canter transitions.

If she spent time as a fox hunter and eq horse, she may have wear and tear that would respond well to “normal” maintenance (adequan, hock injections).

If she has been sitting for a while, my bet would be on lack of fitness probably combined with normal wear and tear. What does she do on the longe?

[OneTwoMany]

@rememberthenight

It could be a lack of fitness. It could be much worse. I would worry trying to get fitness that quickly will cause additional soreness for her. More extensive vetting could be helpful but that takes $$.

A better situation would to take 4-6 weeks to increase her fitness and see how the canter improves. Then vet and consider buying at that point.

Agree. See if BO will give you a longer trial. She’ll get a horse off her bankroll while it is getting fitter, you’ll have more information to make a decision.

If you progress to a vetting, I would involve a vet that specializes in lameness; especially if you suspect there are any issues.

Don’t forget to update us!!

[Bluey]

Sounds like you will have to buy the horse to find out what is wrong with it, it has problems that will take more time than a trial to find out what is wrong and if it can be fixed and if so long time to do so?
That doesn’t really makes sense?
Maybe consider not to even go there with a trial, save your time and money and keep looking for a more suitable horse already doing what you need when you buy it.

The horse is not suitable for what you want now, why buy into problems up front?
Unless you are ok such a horse may never do what you want if you can’t fix it either, as the seller has not done and the price reflects that.

We end up with enough problems buying horses that are sound and healthy and doing what we expect from them.
No sense in “borrowing trouble” by buying a horse that has problems up front.

The seller is who needs to fix the problems before putting the horse on the market, then sell it as a horse that does what it needs to do.

[lilitiger2]

@Bluey

Sounds like you will have to buy the horse to find out what is wrong with it, it has problems that will take more time than a trial to find out what is wrong and if it can be fixed and if so long time to do so?
That doesn’t really makes sense?
Maybe consider not to even go there with a trial, save your time and money and keep looking for a more suitable horse already doing what you need when you buy it.

The horse is not suitable for what you want now, why buy into problems up front?
Unless you are ok such a horse may never do what you want if you can’t fix it either, as the seller has not done and the price reflects that.

We end up with enough problems buying horses that are sound and healthy and doing what we expect from them.
No sense in “borrowing trouble” by buying a horse that has problems up front.

The seller is who needs to fix the problems before putting the horse on the market, then sell it as a horse that does what it needs to do.

That’s really good advice (bolding mine). If the mare is basically free, and you have the time,space and money to sort out the problems, might be an interesting project. Otherwise, Bluey is really right that they need to address the problem then put her on the market–I mean, they don’t have to do anything, but no sense in starting with a problem right out of the gate (as I did–bought an unsound horse that “probably could be addressed” and lo and behold these almost twenty years I have a lovely and lovable pasture ornament! A good lesson!)

[SonnysMom]

If by disunited canter you mean cross cantering (different lead in the front than in the back) then it can be kissing spine, stifles, saddle fit, fitness or hocks.

My horse, Finnegan , will pick up a nice canter and can hold it on a straight line but will swap the back to the wrong lead on a circle. Historically he will start to cross cantering when it is time for his hocks to be injected. However he now flexes sound on his hocks after injections in June and is still cross cantering on the right lead. In June he was diagnosed with KS and we did conservative treatment but he is still occassionally showing some back soreness. My guess is I am going to need to do shockwave and mesotherapy. That is roughly $700-800 for that treatment.

I don’t think 2 weeks in long enough to get this horse fit enough to determine if it is fitness or something else. Tracking down KS, hocks, stifles etc… could be a lot of xrays and money plus the treatment of the issue that may or may not work.

From what I am reading KS sounds pretty common in TBs or in OTTBs.

I would pass myself.

[Pocket_Pony]

I would pass for now and send the horse back. Let the seller put the work into getting the horse fit and tuned up. If in a month or two you are still looking and haven’t found something you like better, then you can go back and have another look. This could be a long chase down a rabbit hole to find out what is wrong. It would be easy to dismiss it as fitness, but then have it continue after the horse is fit. Perhaps the previous rider was timid because of the cross cantering and maybe there was some related bucking that was not disclosed to you.

[IronwoodFarm]

If you have limited funds, then keep looking. There are plenty of solid adult beginner horses out there that can W/T/C.

The true cost of the horse is in the upkeep not the purchase price. I would not knowingly buy a horse with serious flaws.

[GraceLikeRain]

If you end up taking her on trial please do not try to fit her up in two weeks. It is impossible and best case she’s going to come away super sour if not with an injury.

Personally, I would walk away. It could be that 4-6 weeks of gentle conditioning is all this horse needs but I wouldn’t put my dollars into finding out. If a gentle beginners horse is all that is required I’d be inclined to reach out to places that sell trail horses or have a reputation of producing really nice beginner horses.

[Riponite]

Ok, I wasn’t clear. I haven’t seen her ridden. I rode her in the field, and on the right canter she transitioned into a canter on the right leg in front and the wrong behind, she did this twice. She didn’t seem in pain or upset by this, simply transitioned to a slow, rhythmic, wrong canter. On the other leg she transitioned just as peacefully to the correct canter.

The other horses we have looked at so far in our price bracket have been so much more green, so much less balanced. But you are all quite right that even if it were simple unfitness we couldn’t fix it in two weeks.

I believe the BO has a teaching barn somewhere and this horse was at her breeding barn. Perhaps I could persuade her to transfer her and I could maybe try her again in a more amenable space, but I think people are right and we should look for a solid w/t/c that can be refined.

[Bluey]

@Riponite

Ok, I wasn’t clear. I haven’t seen her ridden. I rode her in the field, and on the right canter she transitioned into a canter on the right leg in front and the wrong behind, she did this twice. She didn’t seem in pain or upset by this, simply transitioned to a slow, rhythmic, wrong canter. On the other leg she transitioned just as peacefully to the correct canter.

The other horses we have looked at so far in our price bracket have been so much more green, so much less balanced. But you are all quite right that even if it were simple unfitness we couldn’t fix it in two weeks.

I believe the BO has a teaching barn somewhere and this horse was at her breeding barn. Perhaps I could persuade her to transfer her and I could maybe try her again in a more amenable space, but I think people are right and we should look for a solid w/t/c that can be refined.

Sounds like you really have not tried that horse hardly at all?

Some horses, it takes going by several times to ride them to decide what you have.
If you like her good enough, asking the horse be taken to a place you can ride her and see her ridden properly, where you can evaluate what she knows and does, would be way more helpful.

Sounds like she was cross cantering on one lead two times you asked, hardly much to go by on uneven terrain on a new horse.
Maybe it would require another better try to see what you may have there.

[ndirish07]

If I’m understanding this, the horse just cross canters sometimes, and you haven’t really tried her. I agree with Bluey. I’d also want to see her go at liberty to see if she does it. If she hasn’t been ridden in over a year, its going to take some time to get her strong enough. Having gone though this with my current horse who sat for a year, I would almost expect it. He had no mechanical lameness–just a weak and crappy canter due to no real muscle and he was turned out almost 24/7. (That’s gotten 100% better with time and fitness, but that’s another topic).

If you want something ready to go right now and can canter and do everything you want, I’d pass. This will require time to develop the canter and get her strong. Could it be something more-- sure, it’s a horse. But I wouldn’t also be so fast to discount the year off. If you like the horse otherwise, do a basic PPE and have your vet watch her go on a lunge line or a liberty if she doesn’t lunge. Remove a rider from the equation.

[SuzieQNutter]

It could just be that she is unmuscled as not used to cantering anymore with being ridden by someone who doesn’t canter.

You will be able to test her on a circle in hopefully an arena in your trial. You will know more then. She should have some muscle memory for doing it correctly before belonging to her.

[arabiansrock]

Based on personal experience, with a horse that cross fires, in a ppe, have them check for signs of an old pelvic fracture. Finally found out what was wrong with my horse when he was colicking, we didn’t know why, and they ultrasounded and found signs of an old pelvic fracture. Unfortuanely he had a cecal twist and had to be put down. He was not going to make it to vet hospital. My poor boy. And we spent a lot of money trying to fix the cross firing. Nothing worked, his pelvis hurt. This may be a rare occurance, but in a TB, I would check (my boy was race trained but unraced. I think that might have been why).

That said, a quiet TB is one of the nicest horses you could ask for. I still miss my boy.

[Bluey]

OP, did you ever get a clear answer why she was turned out for so long?

She may have been off, sick, something you may not want to take chance she will come back from 100%.

It may be smart to look at horses that are now doing what you want to do, as others have said.
That may save you much heartache over the unknown, that may end up badly.