Amen. I rarely go to a more than one day show. I usually get there at least two hours before my classes. My horse stands tied to my trailer, on a “leader” tie line (think enormous bungee), with feed and water. Since rides are usually an hour or two apart, he stands tied another hour or so. I’m usually in the vicinity, and I have a friend with me usually, but if I do NOT, I certainly expect him to stand quietly tied. And if I want to go and watch a few classes, I don’t worry about him being tied there. Same thing for trail rides, etc. He is a dressage horse and standing tied has never done him any harm. He’s been shown since he was 4 and is now 20. Most shows I go to, the horses are TIED to their trailers. Since when is a “dressage” thing to have horses that do not tie? Talk about adding to the “DQ” image! " Poopisie doesn’t tie. She’s a DRESSAGE horse." So that means no manners required? Since when did TYING a horse become cruel? Tying head to tail, or head to girth and leaving in that position, yes, cruel. Tying and leaving the area for 4 of 5 hours - not a good idea. But cruel to tie to a trailer at a horse show? Geesh.
PI much nicer more sane post aimed at me thanks.
I agree all (almost) horses can and should be trained to third.
I agree that you should not drill your horses like some dressage people do and that training can take place out of the ring. I agree horses need to have fun and enjoy the learning too.
Getting a horse to FEI (if you don’t buy it already there) is a long process. I have through years of owning and training horses learned that I would rather start with something that has the potential and not waste my time with something that I will out grow (like I have with so many others) After riding a couple of friends FEI horses and getting a taste of the passage, canter pirouettes etc, I want to get there. I don’t want to buy the FEI horse (or as you say the levels) but I don’t begrudge anyone that.
Sabine
I vote for Medieval Times and perhaps William Duer as the significant other. If that is the case Sabine, you must get the boy online to share his techniques. And we are (well some of us) very envious that you may get to ride all these Andalusians beauty.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
OMG!!! what a hoot!!!
Quote:
CTR that I have ridden have been 25 miles. Your horse is vetted out and scored before the ride, and must past vet exam for you to be entered in the ride. They check, among other things, pulse, respiration, back soreness, lameness, swelling in joints and for dehydration. You are scored on these things, they also make note of any scraps/scars so that they are noted, and you are not marked down for them later. CTR is not a race, and you are given an ‘ideal’ time, for example, 4 hours 10 minutes…(varies depending on terrain, hard terrain=more time) You must complete within the time window given or be deducted a point for each minute you are in faster or slower from this time. The horse that finishes with the best overall score, for physical condition wins
that sounds like a blast. Like an endurance ride without the racing. I must look into that.
This 25 miler would a B series NATRC ride with the difference being the Rider is also judged. Both the horse and Rider have separate cards and are place individually with the overal winners as a joint placing of the combined cards
An A section ride could range between usually 40 to 55 miles (could be up to 70 or so miles) depending upon which division you are riding in.
The B rides are one day and A are two, normally
Originally Posted by PoliticallyIncorrect
And why is it a problem that some people like to train for historical dressage as you describe and some like to train for competition dressage in an arena?
Thats what I am trying to figure out myself?
Here is my play by play commentary of the events that unfolded on COTH today.
The disagreement in question started with Sabine giving advice she was not qualified to give, then backed her argument with the the fact that she personally killed two horses so if she cant do it no one can. Later she brought the horses back to life Then Sabine starts talking in code and I must not know about dressage because I dont know the codes, one of the horses she raised from the dead is at a cdi in pb, apparently not peanut butter. And the other is a trail horse which before she never owned a trail horse. So who knows…Me thinks Sabine is possible bi polar schizzophrenic who needs to take her meds and find a man.
Then my horses were worthless and theirs cost a lot of money so they must know, then I am a know it all who spent a lot of money on my horses, then I am driving a Hyndai, and they a Ferrari, which I actually owned at one time,
Then I was accused of being stupid or good rider/trainer I cant figure that one out yet. Because my horses can go down the road and thru the drive thru when I need to eat.
Then Baroque breeds arent competitive, then the Spanish team rides them…
Then its if your horse was bred to Piaffe and Passage he wont be able to stand tied or be responsible or safe, and High Level compeition horses and Dressage horses are hot and arent good police horses. and I am stupid for not knowing that… and then rabuke and Goldstern were Olympic Dressage Champions and Police Horses… and KKJ avoids the topic.
Then we cant disagree, then we can…I am correct…which according to KKJ, Sabine and the Carrot Lady Klan I am not. So dont quote me on that part just yet…now I think were back to we cant disagree again…
We are currently heading back to the no one has any logic or grounds to debate their stance on anything they will tell you is fact…other than “my Carrot lady friend thinks so too, and we both just cliniced with so and so…SO THERE!”
And if you disagree well then your John Travolta swimming with a man from Snowy River doing the Spanish Walk??..I think…
OMG!!! Now THAT is funny!!!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
KKJ
You thanked me for being nice, I do want to point out I never meant to be not nice to you. Just a little mental sparring…
As far as Sabine goes she goes around here barking at everyone and being snotty. This time she barked at the wrong dog.
I can get as mean and snotty as anyone believe me…but I dont mean to be that way with the rest of you in any way shape or form.
“If everyone agrees, then someone is not thinking”
I don’t tie my horse for hours, period. I don’t tie any horse for hours, whether he is dressage or not. Dressage shows I enter, my classes are usually back to back so the longest I have to wait is perhaps a couple of hours when the classes are huge. But then I walk around the ground with my horse, taking in the scenary or let him eat some grass and stretch his legs. I never leave him unattended. When we get in the ring, he is totally focused.
That’s how I like to prep my horse.
It is a common practice to tie the horses at a show or a polo match or what not. It’s ok when done safely. It depends on the job of the horse mostly. If there is a need, you must practice at home.
But saying a person is a DQ if she doesn’t like to tie a horse up. Give me a break. It’s like people calling me a DQ if I won’t school my horse on bad footing. There is no award for schooling on bad footing by the way. Let’s all ride on bad footing with hackamores, hack on roads jump some gates, then tie the horse up for hours just to proof our horses could put up with anything, we are ‘down to earth’, we are brave and carefree… I call that trailer trash attitude.
So there are all the Trail people coming to the dressage board to tell us how to do dressage, and what dressage means? Give me a fricking break. I need a ‘smillie’ that shows me rolling my eyes to the back of my head.
I don’t know who this fancy PI person is. I know nobody in this industry who train a horse to piaffe and passage, compete at GP level AND do comepetitive trails. (I do know somebody who do GP and bull fighting though, obvsiouely not on the same horse) If there is, let me know who you are and let me see you ride a reasonable GP test… really, I want to see those tempi changes and piaffe/passage transitions… I do personally know people who trains/compete at the GP level and none of them has this crazy attitude. I mean you were schooling piaffe to passage transitions one day… then next day you check your horse into a long distance thingy? You’ve got to be kidding me… I know absolutely nobody who will do that.
People who specialize in dressage have horses in training and competition, and teaching schedule… I would be surprised they would be able to find time to cross train… not that they won’t ask a working student to gallop their horses in the woods to open them up. If you ask me, I couldn’t even ride in saddles other than a dressage saddle (and a dressage saddle that works too… not just any dressage looking saddle).
This is not to say people who do competitive trails have no right to learn dressage… or vice versa.
Obviousely PI has an Arab and taking him to CTR it’s like bringing a duck to water. PI, you’ve got to know that, don’t you? And you’ve got to be kidding me that you think others should follow your great footstep. Don’t get me wrong, I hack my horse too but kill me if he only does dressage, because that’s what I’m good at and he is good at?
“i’m not sure the term Schizophrenia is in use any more (in England)”
most definitely is used. it’s a neurological/psychiatric disorder, and is given the same name and diagnostic criteria in just about every country in the world today. most countries use either the DSM-IVR or the ICD diagnostic systems - both have it as a diagnosis.
to try to insult someone who disagrees with you about tying up a horse by accusing them of having a neurological/psychiatric disorder is the most rude, juvenile thing i’ve heard here - and it reflects very poorly on PI. very poorly. when someone says something like that, i am done listening to them.
T2000
I don’t have preconcieved ideas of endurance riding being wrong or bad for the horses it just doesn’t interest me to take part. We have the famous Golden Horseshoe ride here and i’ve been in the UAE during their endurance races so i know the horses CAN do it i just don’t want to! I had a job leading 12 hour trail rides when i was 18 been there done it just not interested think my horses and me are ok leaving it out the schedule. You go ahead, post pictures i’ll be happy trailing vicariously! I think it would be too much to ask my horses to give more than one career but that’s more a superstition than a scientifically founded decision, like not putting too many things on a xmas wish list. I’m not trying to make anyone copy my journey there are a lot of roads to Rome and not everyone wants to go there anyhow.
MyReality
I don’t know who this fancy PI person is. I know nobody in this industry who train a horse to piaffe and passage, compete at GP level AND do comepetitive trails.
Ahh there you go reading into my posts again. I never said I was competing at GP. I would guess neither are you…or anyone else who thinks a Grand Prix Horse cant hack out on the trails.
I will compete on this little filly soon though.
I will gladly show you the piaffe/passage transitions if you like. And yes I can teach them that and ride it on the trails too. I have been very blessed with great people to learn from. Remember I never said I was a Pro Trainer just like to play with my ponies.
If you learned from a source other than your friends at the barn you would know all the masters (save Baucher) hacked their Dressage Horses just fine.
It is actually good for them not only physically but mentally and emotionally as well.
So do we have a bet?
Hey I got a fun bet…I bet you I can get my horse to Piaffe with me not even on her. No reins or long lines…
Each and every law/rule for Piaffe will be fulfilled. She will step underneath herself, raise and flex AT THE POLL, lower her haunches and her head will be on the vertical. Steady Rythym and completly Controlled Impulsion and I bet even with me not on her it would score a 7 in a GP test?
AND IT will be better than your horses Piaffe with you riding?
I am going to be out of town for a couple of weeks on assignment when I get back I will film it for you if what your willing to bet is good enough…
What do ya say? How much you willing to put up for the bet?
See MyReality Reality is not static… its dynamic. There is no such thing as Reality, only perception. Your reality changes as does anyones and two peoples realities are seldom the same…Your reality is limited by what you know or believe. Hence its not only perception, but selective perception.
So in your reality what I just proposed cant be done. It is impossible or must be some “trick” or hoax.
Who was it exactly that barked?
Funny how folks perceive things differently. I didn’t think Sabine barked at anyone or was snotty, she just voiced a passionate, concerned & different opinion from yours (and mine) - and there was no need to go off on her because of that. How boring would it be if we all agreed with you about everything. Some dogs are a bit volatile, I guess. Me, I’m more of a blase bitch. lol
Big chip on your shoulder little man…maybe it’s the little man syndrome>>>:::??? anyway- done talking with you- the beauty of this board is that everyone can post…even dogs…
Little man?
Honey you better feel again…
OUCH… now that was uncalled for! I am going to moderate myself now.
Yeah thats the beauty of this board. Even you can run around and act like you know something.
So you never answered where your husband does his exhibitions. I might even know him!
Its a small world, even smaller in the exhibition world.
David Jay isnt married that I know of, so that would rule out Medieval Times in California.
[QUOTE=MyReality]
I don’t tie my horse for hours, period. I don’t tie any horse for hours, whether he is dressage or not. Dressage shows I enter, my classes are usually back to back so the longest I have to wait is perhaps a couple of hours when the classes are huge.
>>>>>>> Lucky you. I’ve had rides at one-day shows scheduled many hours (up to 6) apart to accommodate “upper level” riders so they can show by mid-day and go home! (I - poor middle class pleb that I am - was showing 2nd level). I sure don’t stay on my horse all that time, he (gasp!) stays tied to the trailer. I was always instructed by my old eventing trainer to “not treat my horse like a couch” and to GET OFF and let him rest between classes. My previous horse stayed tied to the trailer, on days when he did one-day events - dressage in the AM, cross-country mid-day, stadium late afternoon. Tied to the trailer in between. You mean I should have kept him walking ALL DAY? (no stalls available) Obviously, if one has a stallion (because he may be well behaved, but you can’t count on the same from other people/other people’s horses or some hyper horse (that needs to be schooled on being tied, among other things???), one may want to stall rather than tie - no point taking unnecessary risks. But if there is no choice?? Horses - should - know - how - to - tie, no matter what their job is. It is part of being trained. And as far as trail riding (or even competitive trail, which is NOT an endurance contest), to quote Podjahsky (possibly somewhat paraphrased): “Riding out of doors and across country is the proof that the training in the arena is correct.”
I know nobody in this industry who train a horse to piaffe and passage, compete at GP level AND do comepetitive trails.
>>>>>> Certainly they don’t do competitive trail, but Hilda Gurney, among others, has her horses hacked out on the trails, and talk about cross-training, Christopher Bartle often trained his horses to Advanced Level eventing and THEN converted them to FEI level dressage (presumably if they were doing advanced, they were 3rd/4th level in their dressage schooling).
>>>>>>My horse is 2nd level, schooling 3rd. That’s probably as far as he’s going to go, since I turned him to dressage after some years as a H/J, low level eventer, all purpose horse. One trainer told me that had I started him seriously into dressage sooner, he seemed capable of PSG. Physically, he’s old enough now that while sound, it’s unlikely I will push him that far. Whatever. Lost dreams. However, he has always been well mannered, knows how to tie, does obstacle trail rides (like “trail horses classes” in a horse show, but natural obstacle rides over open country). With a kid, he will plunk along like a pony, with an experienced rider, he will collect and do half-pass, other lateral work, jump small fences, etc.
>>>>>>I just find it hard to grasp the concept of a “trained” horse that does not TIE reliably, anymore than one that does not load in a trailer without incident. It’s all part of being well trained and well mannered. that doesn’t mean “tie and forget about,” but it also doesn’t mean standing there every minute with bated breath lest something “upset” him.
People who specialize in dressage have horses in training and competition, and teaching schedule… I would be surprised they would be able to find time to cross train… not that they won’t ask a working student to gallop their horses in the woods to open them up. If you ask me, I couldn’t even ride in saddles other than a dressage saddle (and a dressage saddle that works too… not just any dressage looking saddle).
>>>>>> I was not aware that one could only do dressage in a dressage saddle. Certainly, a good saddle that fits the horse and the rider is of great importance, but I can “do dressage” in a friend’s close-contact Crates western saddle, and I have a forward seat saddle for jumping and trails, as well as my dressage saddle. If I “couldn’t ride in anything but a dressage saddle,” I would think that I needed some lessons. That one may PREFER to ride in a dressage saddle is fine, but hardly a prerequisite for being able to ride correctly.
I’d say PI should cut his first name which would make him, quite simply, Incorrect.
If you want to know where sabine’s fellow trains his Andies, how about showing us your website or some pics on PhotoBucket or some similar space? Anything at all to prove your, umm, credentials. No fair asking for personal stuff without giving your own, big guy.
what an interesting discussion! its quite enlightening when those that dish it out cant take it.
i have been pondering what folks see/read here once they have blocked everyone that doesnt agree with them… it is a VERY strange concept to me… you would only be reading part of a conversation… hmmmmm…
anyway, carry on…
ETK
Some dogs are a bit volatile, I guess. Me, I’m more of a blase bitch. lol"
roflmao…That was good!
Its ok to disagree, Sabine and Co. want to start lynching anyone who disagrees with them. They are the EXPERTS you know.
So thats it Sabine? Just I am done talking? Somebody double check this but according to my calculations it took 11 pages for Sabine to shut up. At least now we have something to guage future discussions with her by.
Thank God I was getting tired…Ok who had page 11 in the pot we had running…???
And for anyone who thinks I may be Politically Incorrect, I am not. Though I could see how there are some similarities I do not have an ounce of that posters talent for steering s&**( or their training abilities.
And I am a carrot lady. Trough and through
PI I would love to see video clips of your horse doing the piaffe at liberty or at your command or whatever. I would also really like to see the piaffe passage transitions. And I would love to see the tricks Spanish Walk, bowing all of it. It would kind of be like Cavalia for free and I think it would be very cool.
I am not challenging you. I would just love to see it.
I don’t want to make a bet or anything, but I would love to see it.
Also whether or not you consider yourself a horsetrainer, if you started 30 horses last year you are a very busy horse trainer by most people definitions. That would be a ton of work and unless you are independently quite wealthy, I hope someone is paying you for that work.
