Understanding trainer relationship and protocols

[BDubs]

Yes, I’m not sure if it was quite that intentional but that was the upshot of the whole interaction. On the Sunday morning when I was reviewing the lease, I reached out to her to ask about training packages and she said I needed to speak to the owner of the Barn because that is her department. And then she added that she did not know if her training rides could come out of my lesson package. So there is a variable I could not get hard numbers on: will I be buying a lesson package for myself and then a separate package of training rides? That could double my lesson/training budget every month from $840 to $1680 which would really add up over the year.

She told me to ask the barn owner when she had to know (because she was at the same show) that everybody was away at a show on Sunday. I was not going to get an answer, and I had to sign the contract without having it.

Thank God I didn’t, because now that I do have the hard numbers, and leasing that horse was, in fact, going to cost me $49,970 for the year. And that was assuming no vet emergencies. The horses I am looking at leasing now are in the neighborhood of 32 to 36,000 for the year, not withstanding emergencies, but that leaves 17K in my pocket to go horse shopping a year from now if I feel ready to purchase.

And yes, her response was “you should’ve known what the numbers are.” How can I know what the numbers are? You don’t even know them!

[BDubs]

No, it doesn’t read “wrong“ at all! And thank you for that. When I mentioned to the trainer who has the less expensive 14.2 for me to lease that it was $17,000 less than the lease I had just walked away from, She said, “well everyone has a different program so prices can vary.“ Which I took as her way of avoiding saying anything negative about that other trainer. My (now, thanks to all of your insights) former trainer is going to be covering for that woman when she goes on maternity leave. So my old trainer will be in my face come April, but hopefully by then I will be in a lease I can afford, on a horse that I like, sitting a little bit taller in the saddle thanks to all of your good advice.

[OverandOnward]

If it were me, probably when I see her again when she’s covering lessons, I’d act as if everything is fine and I have no troubled memories, at all. Of course I have no way of knowing about this trainer … but sometimes extra-manipulators will follow the flow set by others, because they sense that it may be a way in to good feelings.

Many pro trainers surrounded by students and clients tend to engage in the moment, without referencing anything else. They’ve got good and bad history with so many people, they don’t even remember all of it. It’s easier for them to just act like this is a pleasant cocktail party where people have had only had one drink so far.

I’d set the tone with a giant smile and a cheerful greeting, calling her by her name, “Hey Clownface! Good to see you again!” and then keep walking to the tack room, giving her minimal time to respond, so that she can start processing.

I would not have any “talks” with her, would leave the past in the past. Would just smile and walk around any people in conversation with her. That will be much easier and less stressful for her as well as me. There is nothing to learn from that mean lady anyway.

Just imo.

[TheDBYC]

@BDubs

I have always wanted to lease or purchase a horse that would be suitable for both of us to ride.

It is a nice thought but rarely seems to work out that way. Different learning styles, different ways of riding, different personalities.

[SharonA1]

@OverandOnward

IMO, stop trying to make it up to her, stop with the peace offerings, just let it peace out. That’s easier for her than having you rise up into view yet again, which is a reminder to herself of all the mistakes she is making. (Not your fault!!! But that is how she’s reacting). She isn’t dealing well with her situation, is she – so let her be – for a few years.

This. Stop trying to be nice to her. Don’t go buying her little gifts. Stop trying to make it all work out sweet and nice. End it before she drags you further down her rabbit hole. I’m genuinely sorry for what she is going through, but, that is not your problem. Cut yourself and your son loose from her and let it go.

If you would like to tell COTH where you are, maybe someone would have a suggestion for finding a trainer who is a better fit.

[dmveventer]

@BDubs

When I mentioned to the trainer who has the less expensive 14.2 for me to lease that it was $17,000 less than the lease I had just walked away from, She said, “well everyone has a different program so prices can vary.“ Which I took as her way of avoiding saying anything negative about that other trainer.

I think it’s much more likely she was stating a fact - lease prices vary dramatically depending on the horse, the program, and a number of other factors. She probably didn’t want to get in the middle of the ongoing drama but I wouldn’t assume anything about her views on the other trainer. You’re very focused on the annual costs which is coming off a little strange; it’s totally fair to consider on your own but I wouldn’t lead with that in any of your engagements with your trainers beyond stating your max monthly budget or annual lease fee. Not everything in horses is about getting the best possible deal, be careful that you aren’t coming across as undervaluing how much a good horse or trainer is worth.

Personally I would be looking for a new barn at this point, not just switching trainers within the barn. Fair or not it’s likely you’ve gotten a reputation for being a difficult client and things will probably just go downhill over time. Your old trainer sounds like a mess and was taking advantage, but you also had some unrealistic expectations and caused some drama on your end too. I definitely wouldn’t want to work with the old trainer again even just for maternity leave, she doesn’t seem to have your best interests in mind and it’s just asking for conflict to come up. Better to leave on your own terms now.

[fivestrideline]

I kind of disagree - I think focusing on the costs (monthly or yearly) is a good thing. Horse people aren’t particularly known for making good financial decisions and plenty of us avoid adding it all up entirely. Knowing your budget and sticking to it by getting clear answers ahead of time is very smart.

That said, OP, definitely don’t lead with the hard numbers in real life. @dmveventer is right that if you walk in talking numbers and costs first, you run the risk of coming off like you don’t care if this is the right situation as long as it’s the cheapest. And certainly don’t bring the old trainer’s program, costs, or personal life into discussions with your new trainer. Relevant details, sure. And feel free to discuss things here, but IRL the horse community is TINY and it’s very easy to accidentally bad mouth someone or earn a reputation as a gossip. Ask for hard numbers and stick to your budget, and then go enjoy your new lease!

Also, I wouldn’t love having to work with your old trainer during maternity leave. It can be done, but an entirely new barn would be preferable.

[dmveventer]

Totally agree that you have to consider the costs, I’ve just never heard anyone talk about board and training in terms of annual totals. It’s fine if that’s how OP considers it for her own planning purposes but to others it likely marks her as inexperienced or cheap. It’s more of a language thing than anything else.

[RedHorses]

@Scribbler

My self board barn is a nonprofit club in a city park. I don’t know of any other places like it in my city or indeed country

The ridiculous tail of this statement gave me a great laugh this morning! Thanks!

[findeight]

@BDubs

Yes, I’m not sure if it was quite that intentional but that was the upshot of the whole interaction. On the Sunday morning when I was reviewing the lease, I reached out to her to ask about training packages and she said I needed to speak to the owner of the Barn because that is her department. And then she added that she did not know if her training rides could come out of my lesson package

Sooo…trainer just leases stalls to operate her training business or is trainer an actual employee of BO? When you boarded your “ unsuitable” horse, whose name was on the boarding contract and who did you write the check to? Who are you doing business with, BO or trainer? Do these people carry liability insurance? And no that written release and sign saying horses are dangerous and they are not liable does not cover negligence ( yours or theirs) or cover you if your horse kicks a visitor sending them to the ER or gets loose and damages property. Lots of people learn that the hard, $$$ way.

Hmmmmm…

One other point, a bad reputation is like soot. It rubs off on anything and anyone it touches. What is this trainers reputation like in the local horse community and with fellow trainers?

[trubandloki]

@findeight

Sooo…trainer just leases stalls to operate her training business or is trainer an actual employee of BO? When you boarded your “ unsuitable” horse, whose name was on the boarding contract and who did you write the check to? Who are you doing business with, BO or trainer? Do these people carry liability insurance? And no that written release and sign saying horses are dangerous and they are not liable does not cover negligence ( yours or theirs) or cover you if your horse kicks a visitor sending them to the ER or gets loose and damages property. Lots of people learn that the hard, $$$ way.

I got the impression the unsuitable TB that was rehomed never left the barn where the OP boarded that the trainer left because of the divorce. It did not move to wherever the trainer is now.

[findeight]

Perhaps OP can clarify…little confusing. Either way does not sound ideal.

[Scribbler]

@RedHorses

@Scribbler

My self board barn is a nonprofit club in a city park. I don’t know of any other places like it in my city or indeed country

The ridiculous tail of this statement gave me a great laugh this morning! Thanks!

Well there is not another one in my city for sure. Not sure why you think it’s funny? I think horses will only survive as a sport if they start to get the huge municipal subsidies poured into all the other high cost sports. It’s almost the only sport where the participants cover all the costs plus profit for the business person. Even boaters have government marinas here!

[trubandloki]

@Scribbler

Even boaters have government marinas here!

It sounds like where you are there are plenty of government funded stuff if you say there is a barn and a marina.

We have none that stuff here.

Sure there are public boat launches, but I would assume that is comparable to the public trails I have access to.

[Scribbler]

@trubandloki

@Scribbler

Even boaters have government marinas here!

It sounds like where you are there are plenty of government funded stuff if you say there is a barn and a marina.

We have none that stuff here.

Sure there are public boat launches, but I would assume that is comparable to the public trails I have access to.

No, not just a boat launch. In lots of smaller towns up the coast the government dock was the hub.

Our barn is a nonprofit club that got a free lease on land inside a park 50 years ago when farmland was getting built up here, and has funded all the facilities through membership fees and rent. But nothing has to come off the top for salaries or mortgage or rent. So it’s sustainable and has decent infrastructure.

Our metro area (multiple cities or municipalities) has a good network of community centers with pools, skating rinks, gymnasiums, tennis courts, weight rooms, yoga classes etc.

Private companies have moved in to capture the more potentially profitable things like fitness centers and yoga studios, but the community centers still have huge programs in these areas.

When I lived in the mid South USA, I was surprised how few public facilities there were.

[fivestrideline]

@Scribbler

When I lived in the mid South USA, I was surprised how few public facilities there were.

Not that anyone likes paying taxes, but IME down here the culture around “public facilities” is very much “as long as I don’t have to pay for it”. I think if people were better educated and the parks and recreation departments had better/more publicity, that might change. My experience up north was different - there was more general support for such facilities and outdoor activities for all.

[Alterration]

I worry about that too Scribbler. I just saw a post in a barn owner’s group of what private marinas and boat storage charge. The one near her charged 1000 a month, and all that was necessary was the boat moved via tractor when the owner wanted it out and gassed up (the owner paid for fuel, maintenance etc.). Meanwhile, lots of barns (particularly in the midwest) struggle to charge that when costs are $1000/mo for decent care.

[Willesdon]

Don’t forget that equestrianism is largely female dominated and who wants to spend public money on “the lifestyle choices of middle class women”, to quote one elected conservative local councillor whom I was lobbying for greater riding access in a public park?

Boat ownership is probably mainly male so 1k per month storage is a mere drop in the ocean (lol).

Unfortunately, as in so many things, gender bias does come into play.

[clanter]

@Scribbler

Even boaters have government marinas here!

here we have over 600 miles of equine trails various government agencies have funded/built that may or may not have joint uses

The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) has publicly clarified that “Equestrians and other nonmotorized recreational use may be allowed on shared use paths and trails that use Federal-aid transportation funds.” … over $1B has been allocated since 1991 which had to met with matching state money, so nearly $2B

also Dickies Arena is owned by the City of Fort Worth and managed by the not-for- profit operating entity, Trail Drive Management Corp.

[Alterration]

@Willesdon

Don’t forget that equestrianism is largely female dominated and who wants to spend public money on “the lifestyle choices of middle class women”, to quote one elected conservative local councillor whom I was lobbying for greater riding access in a public park?

Boat ownership is probably mainly male so 1k per month storage is a mere drop in the ocean (lol).

Unfortunately, as in so many things, gender bias does come into play.

I don’t want to like this, but I get it. It’s frustrating. One of those two things actually COSTS $1k.