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Unhappy Horse: What is it? Long read

Where in the world did you find a Welsh Cob in New England? From what I’ve read about Welsh Cobs recently, this sounds like fairly typical behavior. Some horses are just spookier and more reactive than others. And some just fuss more with their bits and heads more than others. Mine, a paint cross, is both of those things. It’s just who he is. He goes in a Micklem, which has made a marginal difference, and I’ve tried a couple different bits, but he’s also a little chewy with them. I’ve learned that a very quiet hand is better for him, and then he fusses less. He shakes his neck when he’s having fun and we are cantering around a field and will cran he neck sideways when he’s feeling like NOT working or bending appropriately. And he spooks, sometimes at a leaf, sometimes at dead people, and sometimes not at all (in July).

It might completely be that he’s not happy. But have you considered that he might not be happy doing dressage? What kind of turnout is he getting? Have you taken him on any hacks or trail rides? Is he better then? You did say he’s better walking on easy rein.

Fwiw, sucralfate + omeprazole for my horse was a disaster that left me running down all the other rabbit holes of what could make her so batsh1t crazy, unable to put muscle on, unable to gain weight. I was fussing over her feed like crazy. Re-evaluating my training plan. Etc. Lots of grey hairs.

What did work was sucralfate on its own. It only took days to make a big change and a couple of months to a complete turn around.

YMMV

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Oh my God sounds like my journey with my pony mare. She’s a lovely pony but under saddle she does a complete 180. Angry faces, ears back, tail swishing, cantering in spot. I got her stifles injected, saddle fitted, acupunture, chiro, bemer treatments. Every bit, half pad, training aid, etc available to man. I also tested for PSSM, when reading about it I thought I had finally figured it out … she tested negative. SI injection is my next step according to my vet… they also suggested Osphos but I haven’t decided yet.

Have you x-rayed his back? That was one of the first things I did thinking maybe she had kissing spine. She didn’t, but she did exhibit a lot of the symptoms.

I think ongoing ulcers could be part of it. Pyloric ones are a mess to treat. I would also X-ray back, neck and front feet. Starting with neck.

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I am sorry - this sounds miserable for both you and horsey. The bone scan may be worth a try, given that you have no idea where to look at this point. I think it is also likely that the ulcers have returned, but I doubt they are the source of all the unhappiness.

SI issues are often secondary to stifle/suspensory issues. Although the stifle was treated before the SI, the suspensory wasn’t. Could be that the SI is still out of whack from compensating for the mild suspensory strain?

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Did a ph test with pool test strips on manure today. Very acidic! Way more than my other horses… I think we might be on to something. He is on Succeed, but only started that a week ago and he is leaving most of it behind, plus I know he will need sucralfate as well/ oil/ etc. to really go after hind gut acidosis. Will talk with vet after the MLK holiday.

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I didn’t read through all the comments…but would definitely recheck for ulcers again. Even though you think you have him on ulcer prevention, it might not be effective enough. And since that helped before, that would be the most straightforward issue (and relatively easy to rule out).

Good luck - I am going through some tough times with my youngster…waiting for a vet clinic appointment next week to rule out neck compression. They do tell us when something is not right…we just have to learn how to interpret it!

I had a horse w pyloric ulcers. 7 weeeks on one tube ulcerguard daily and no improvement. 3 week’s misoprostol and they were gone.

Yes, This is my horse also. He will use his back to compensate for discomfort in his stifle, which we later discovered was not the whole picture. He had a suspensory injury in the same hind leg. Shockwave did wonders for the suspensory. Arthroscopic surgery to clean up the stifle (injury from a fall). Until then it was lots of grinding on the bit, 3 saddles, head tossing and rooting. Spookiness turned into bolting. Oh yes, I almost forgot about ulcers, chronic ulcers. Lots of Gastrogard and Misoprostol to treat pyloric and suspected hindgut. It is exhausting, I know. Hope springs eternal when he is healthy. He is very easy to ride, reaches into the contact, and is a perfect gentleman. Sigh …

OMG. How lucky is he to have found you.

That said, the fact that he is tripping, and is still tripping, after everything you have tried to me says do not ride this horse. Tripping is not good, tripping is not normal. Tripping can lead to a very bad fall for both horse and rider. Save future heartache and injuries and do not ride.

You have tried. He is not happy and for this one I really think the sayings for you are.

‘Do not throw good money after bad.’

‘It costs just as much and, in this case a lot more, to keep a lame horse as it does to keep a horse that you can ride.’

If he was sent to me I would have my chiropractor look at him as I trust him 100%. I would have his teeth looked at by my dentist as I trust him 100%. I would travel him to my farrier I trust 100%.

The ulcers, if they are still there, cause pain in the canter as that is when the acid starts sloshing in the stomach and it splashes on the ulcer and causes pain.

The thing to ask yourself is why did he get the ulcers? and what did you change in his management to stop them reoccurring? The ulcers are caused by the way he is kept, if you just treat and don’t change the management they will come back.

So after he has seen my 3 trusted professionals I would throw him out to eat grass and hay and get rid of the ulcers.

If the chiropractor and farrier say okay I would start lunging in side reins. If he trips on the lunge, then game over and I would put him in the too dangerous to ride category.

You are better off putting your time, money, effort, etc into another horse.

If he does not trip on the lunge then I would start from there as if I was breaking him in.

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Rads of neck and back - I would put money on seeing something there. And if the attending vet is not someone who looks at neck and back rads all the time, shot the DICOMs over to a radiology specialist - PM me if you want a recommendation.

I agree. I’d lay money on arthritic changes, probably cervical spine.

Props to you for being so diligent about finding out what’s going on with the horse. I’m in MA as well and my horse has some mystery medical issue that I can’t figure out. I’ve hauled to Tufts 5 different times, surgery, tried multiple body workers (chiropractors, massage therapists, acupuncturists), joint specialists, multiple general equine vets, lameness exams, injections of various types, muscle relaxers, pain medication, corrective shoeing, saddle fit to her, and now we are in the process of scoping for ulcers. Anyways, I thought I’d offer my two cents. What kind of girth are you using? Sometimes certain anatomical girths can be uncomfortable for them, whether it’s the shape of the girth or the material. Also just checking if you have had the back both x-rayed and ultrasound? In 2018 my horse had supraspinous ligament desmitis at T17-18 and it only would show up after we did ultrasound & x-rays.

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Yes with ulcers you often have to change the routine a bit. Lots of turnout daily, 24/7 if possible, with as much access to hay as possible. During the winter it’s hard but slow feeders are your friend!

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So, I am not discounting there may be something physically at play here (and also recognize my input might be unpopular), however…

I read your entire post several times. There are multiple mentions of tried and failed diagnostics, restarting ridden work after those diagnostics or treatments, and each time is the same word: forward. Get the horse more forward, push him forward, keep working on fitness via getting him forward, etc.

You also mention from the moment he arrived that he did not accept the bit: all the symptoms you describe, the rooting, taking over, “framing up” without it coming from behind, are all symptoms of a horse who does not understand what the bit means. These signs, however, seem to have been dismissed as due to a lack of fitness, as have a number of his symptoms.

The combination of those two things lead me to believe the following:

  1. This horse has no idea what the bit means, how to respond to it or how he needs to relate to it. He has been constantly trying to push it out of the way, literally, for months now. Continuing to expect that he learns to accept it using the training paradigm you have been adhering to has caused him more and more angst and increased his desire to make it go away.
  2. This desire to make the bit go away leads to him being heavier and heavier on the forehand which means it’s going to be virtually impossible to condition his body properly. More tripping, more unhappy in the bridle, heavier in the hand, more miserable to ride. On top of that, the advice you’re being given is to get a horse that is already tripping and already heavy MORE forward? Heavy on forehand + asking for more forward = heavier on the forehand.
  3. The stifles: IME, a pretty classic side affect of a tight back. A horse who cannot or will not lift freely through his back creates the potential for the physical mechanism that allows range of motion in the stifle to get delayed/out of time with the stride, which causes the popping/slipping. And yes, it’s quite disconcerting to the horse: he’s lost his balance, literally lost a leg out from underneath him. It often isn’t actually that uncomfortable but it gooses them and for a prey animal that depends on being able to run away to survive, that’s scary.

You’ve literally addressed everything you can think of except one thing: his thoughts. His brain. How he feels about and relates to the bit, to being ridden. And the worsening of his symptoms, from that viewpoint, makes total sense. He didn’t have the understanding to begin with and continues to tell you he doesn’t have that understanding and yet he continues to be asked to work, sometimes adding more work(!) (adding canter, for example, when he was still miserable at the walk and trot…) on top of things he’s already struggling with. If the horse is struggling with something at the walk, you address it at the walk. Adding increased need for balance by moving into the trot and canter is going to exacerbate the issue.

I’ve owned a lemon horse. I am not saying this from a place lacking empathy. But what I learned with my mare has informed how I think about every horse that has come after her. You can scan any horse and eventually find something, especially a horse the age of your gelding.

I give you kudos for going the lengths you have to figure him out, but I honestly read your post - again, multiple times - and kept coming back to just plain lack of education couple with having not used his body correctly for a long time. A horse does not need fitness to be able to learn how to soften to the bit, nor does he need fitness or conditioning to be able to carry a soft feel in the reins for a few moments. You build these things over time, but the horse doesn’t need a ton of fitness to offer it in small pieces. This is where I would have started from the get-go, but it’s not too late for you to start now.

Again, no judgment here. I have been there, done that, bought the t-shirt and worn holes in it. I get it. You’ve gone through every avenue and recommendation and taken every piece of advice to heart to try and get this gelding well. But it seems you’ve listened to everyone except for him. He told you what his issue was from the get-go, the first thing you mentioned in your OP: his struggle relating to the bit.

I’d take a furlough from your dressage trainers. Take the gadgets and head-setting devices off him. Stop asking him to do any more than WALK until he can demonstrate that he will. not. push. on. your. hands. Ever. Ask him to start taking responsibility for his own balance instead of making you do it for him. Ask him to start to learn to work in a way that eliminates all the problems you’ve described here because you’re teaching him how to carry himself without leaning. He does not need fitness to start to learn this. It may take a good while longer for him to get confident and convinced that this is how it is, but he does not need a high degree of fitness initially.

I could try and walk you through how to achieve this in this thread but to be honest I feel like you need in-person support, someone who knows what they are doing and can guide you in real time. I’m happy to get into details here if you think it will help, or you’re welcome to PM me and I can see if I know of someone down your way who might be able to help as I’m in VT so you’re too far for me.

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I also agree with above post, however I am I Australia and even further away.

I don’t know what 3rd level Dressage is, however the horse at the start is described as 3rd level, with a lovely demeanor, happy to work and you only think canter for canter.

It is also said that changing riders, bits, saddles, bridles, no bits,etc has made absolutely no difference, which makes me hope that it is simply that the horse has ulcers and still does.

At third level I am presuming the horse understands contact. With all your confidence in yourself and under the guide of Dressage trainers I presume you understand contact.

If the horse goes the same on a loose rein with no bit to the rider asking for contact, then it must be internal. If there is a difference on a loose rein to taking contact then the problem is with taking contact and the education level of the rider.

I would hope for those same things, too. However (flame suit on) my experience has been that some of the heaviest horses in the bridle are dressage horses, specifically horses confirmed to anything above 2nd level. I’ve restarted a number of them. That said, I’ve ridden a number that are lovely and go quite the opposite, so don’t misunderstand that I’m picking on dressage.

It doesn’t really matter what educational accolades he was supposed to have when OP got him - at the end of the day, if from the moment she started working with him he was heavy in the hand, he doesn’t understand how he is to relate to the bit.

I’ve got a student who owns a 20-something schoolie. He canters when you think canter. He’s incredibly heavy on his front end. He’s also well into his 20’s, so I don’t expect him to change much nor would it be fair to ask of him. His job is to be safe and pack around his person, who is also older and doesn’t have a huge desire or ability to become a highly educated rider.

To be clear, the horse does not necessarily need to have issues directly with the bit to express the things the OP’s horse is expressing: the bit just tends to make it show up pretty clearly. The root issue is the horse being unwilling to let go of his forward train of thought, what Harry Whitney calls “forward push”. It’ll show up with a bit, a bosal, a mechanical hack, a rope halter…the bit just tends to bring it up more because the bit has a tendency to cause more anxiety - most horses are okay with stuff on their head because they know what it means to be haltered. Something in their mouth is a very different story.

Again, not discounting some secondary underlying physical issue, but based on the OP’s description of the past 6mo, I keep going back to something I learned a long time ago: there is not a human on this planet that I will listen to over what the horse is telling me.

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Sounds like Pssm possibly type 2. Could be ulcers, could be something like kissing spines. Could be personality.

Thank you all for input, thoughts and supportive ideas. Here is my current thinking:

few things have emerged… hind gut acidosis is more strongly suspected, as he is positive on a PH in manure test. This is hardly a very controlled test, but we are doing another round of sulfalcrate keep the Succeed, and add oil. The rest of his feed/lifestyle is already supportive of hind gut health to the degree I can control it (no stems in hay, etc.). Our belief as to why he got ulcers before is he actually arrived to me with them… and this time, I suspect if we are right and there are ulcers, it may be that I moved him again, to my house, a few months back.

another decisions… I am going to be sticking with my way of thinking, when it comes to asking a horse to work from the back to the front, which is riding as forward as he will give me (which is very little), with forgiving and correct seat and hands, and no gadgets… never been big on them and even though I tried it for a week, we are hanging that up.

Will have neck and back examined, again, by my lameness vet who I trust. While he never specifically targeted the neck in the exam before, and I will ask for that now, I am not suspecting this is going to pay out. But I won’t leave this stone unturned.

In the meantime, we are just going to do a lot of walking. He is better at walk than anything else–trot is when it gets wonky. I will keep this up 6x a week, with hills and poles on the ground. Mixed with longe work at w-t and a touch of canter and a 6" caveletti on the longe at w and t.

as for the tripping, I believe in working over different footings to help with this… I will see if more time out of an arena and over the grass, trails, etc. might help. I already do mix this in, for this reason, but I will add more variety.

I am going to stick with this approach, which isn’t wildly different from what I have been doing, until my horse tells me otherwise or some new insight emerges when we touch base with vet again.

Thank you again – your responses helped me to be sure there was nothing I really didn’t think of, and to hear your kind input. Will respond back down the road to this thread one way or another, as a way of an update.

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Interesting thought on the girth. I had a fancy anatomical one (pricey!) and months ago I did find that my cheap, basic smartpak girth was his preference.

As for the X-ray vs. ultrasound thought, that is very insightful. No, we have not done both. Did you have this done at Tufts? I will do some reading on supraspinous ligament desmitis, I don’t know what that is but you have my interest.