Yes I hauled out to Tufts to have it done as they had both ultrasound and radiograph on the facility
Ah yes, the girth thing. My tried and true was wearing out so I decided to do a trial on one of the uber expensive ones. I didn’t make it one lap of the arena before I carefully slithered off before I could be launched into orbit. First and probably only time my horse has not opted for the uber expensive option for anything lol
Is it possible to pop over to a vet college hospital for that neuro exam? My Wobbler’s horse could not be seen as “lame” by anyone. I could feel it. I could hear it when mounted. There was NOTHING that came up on a lameness check. Fortunately, I got great advice and took him to see a neurologist. Unfortunately, I put him down very shortly after because his neck was that bad. I don’t wish this on anyone, but would never choose to not rule it out fully. I would never, ever forgive myself if I had overlooked it and listened to everyone around me and just pushed through with training. I would never, ever forgive myself if my horse became seriously injured due to not being able to take care of himself in the field. I would never, ever, ever forgive myself if my horse injured a human because he couldn’t take care of himself and I hadn’t fully explored neurological possibilities.
This is the second time this week I have read not to feed long stemmed hay for ulcers. That is the opposite of what I have been taught.
We have chaff here. Apparently that is not all over the world but it is cut up hay.
John Kohnke (vet) said for horses with ulcers do not give them chaff. It moves through the hind gut too quickly, instead feed the longer stemmed hay.
Have access to grass and hay 24/7. Feed on the ground. Feed half a biscuit of lucerne hay which is a buffer, before work or travelling.
He also added that stables with radios had 100% of horses with ulcers.
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Really interesting about the radio. Makes one wonder…I worked at a Morgan breeding farm that always blasted the radio. Almost all of her horses had ulcers, despite at least 18 hours of turnout a day and unlimited quality hay. The radio was always on 24/7, even overnight. Of course, a lot of them had just come back from the show circuit (where I am sure they didn’t get turnout), but that’s interesting to read.
I, also, have always been told to feed long stemmed hay for ulcers, not chaff. As long as the horse is drinking properly, I was told it would help.
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Here’s a long story from The Horse about feeding the ulcer-prone horse. It seems to suggest that high-quality long-stemmed hay is good for the ulcer-prone horse, as well as alfalfa.
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Recommendations on fiber length are somewhat dependent upon the location of the ulcers.
It is not recommended to feed long-stemmed roughage in cases of right dorsal colitis, for example.
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Although John Kohnke’s book is great … it is also somewhat outdated at this point. Great for basics for sure, but there is so much more recent information available these days.
Also, I call BS on the radio nonsense. Production can be increased in dairy cattle with the right tunes blasting. Production does not increase when cows are stressed/full of ulcers. And then there’s the whole GP to music thing in the dressage world. Would we be adding familiar auditory stuff if it made valuable show horses more stressed? Nope. How to de-stress a horse who is wigged out by loud wind noises in an indoor? 1. Turn up the radio. 2. SIng along so the horse hears a familiar voice which is not bothered by the howling wind.
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I figured to myself that it is when music is used in downtime not in work time. A prey animal that can not hear when a predator is coming could be pretty stressful, even if just standing in a stable.
I have not read John Kohnke’s book. I was at a lecture with him. He also has a newsletter that is put out monthly and you can read online.
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I think we often overthink it and forget to let the actual studies speak for themselves. Me, personally, since there is a LOT of money to be made in keeping working cows relaxed and happy and as free of stress as possible, I’m going with music is good. The cows I work with are soon to be moved to a new facility. Damned straight their radio station will be up and running for them in the new barn. Just one more familiarity and comfort they’re going to need to help them settle in to a new lifestyle. We don’t want them listening for predators. We want them to be 100% sure that their human servants are taking care of their every need.
Let me tell you, it is heart-breaking to hear them get vocal when a strange vehicle pulls in right beside the barn. Far enough away, they don’t care. Right up close when the ambient music and familiar sounds don’t dampen the strange noise - upsetting.
Kohnke’s book is good and a good basic reference - I’d definitely recommend giving it a read.
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You’ve done all the right things…what if you think about this differently?
If you were an artist say, who hated math and numbers, would you love a job as a tax accountant?
What I mean is that maybe this is at the root: the horse’s mental needs and the way he feels about his job? If he feels any negative emotions about the nature of his work, that could result in constant ulcers, constant strains and other physical symptoms related to tightness and stress. I bet you know people who’ve experienced this, if you haven’t yourself! Maybe he is telling you that he is an accountant at heart.
As he’s been a dressage horse, how about riding him like a ranch horse for a while, on a long draped rein without contact at any of the gaits,just to see how he feels about that? I know that is impossible to do with a dressage instructor, but there are some good people online who understand dressage but train off contact, as is done in the foundation of western riding, like Warwick Schiller. Note: contact is picked up for some things, but isn’t used until after the horse achieves a happy confident mental state, relaxation, and rhythm. Even then contact isn’t held all the time, the horse is able to maintain the rhythm, relaxed at WTC on a draped rein, not slowing or speeding up, not having each step controlled by his rider, but controlling himself.
Some horses seem happier if they are allowed more autonomy, some horses seem to like more guidance.
I know if you are a dressage rider, you will want a horse who is happy to go the way you want to ride. I’m not suggesting you changing disciples, more of trying out an alternative approach to see if he might be an artist in an accounting job, or vice versa. If you suspect that to be the case, then you would consider your options. After reading your postings I feel confident that you would always do what was in his best interests.
May you be happy, and God bless you.
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Sascha I’m confused - SuzieQNutter referenced the possible effect of radio noise on horses and you keep repeating information about the use of radios in cow barns. How are these two connected? Cows are not horses and it seems obvious to me that their needs and preferences may differ significantly. I think it is fair to say that most cows are not nearly as hyper-aware of possible predators (or noises that suggest possible predators in their minds) as most horses.
Now it is also obviously possible that the radio is not the only cause of equine ulcers in such barns, and that it may be other features of barns that tend to leave radios on 24/7, but I see no reason to dismiss the possible connection between non-stop radio noise and equine ulcers. I can for sure say I’d have ulcers or other adverse health conditions if a radio was playing around me 24/7!
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Humans get used to different things. Us oldies seem to like quiet. The youngins who go around with earbuds in their ears cannot stand quiet. They get upset without it.
When I moved here, nobody knew how to do the Chep pallet paperwork, so they sent the forklift driver, I knew really well, with it for me to do.
He had been here 5 minutes before he said I could never live here. I looked at him with surprise.
Why not?
It is too quiet.
I laughed and asked if he wanted me to turn the TV off, which was on in the other room and we could hear it, well at least I could. Right now I can also hear the traffic on the Road a km away.
I had my ears tested. I complain to hubby about mumbling. He accused me of being deaf
I was told I have exceptional hearing.
I refuse to put earbuds in my ears for music. Yes I have for a lesson for an instructor to talk to me. But those earbuds for music I feel sending me deaf immediately. I feel for the younger generations hearing.
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Do horses flip their noodles when a strange vehicle of usual type (pick up truck) drives alongside their barn? Nope. Cows? Absolutely. When I walk into the barn in the morning can I often tell if there is a new calf in the adjoining barn without even looking through a window or opening the door? Yep, because the milking herd will let me know that something happened out there. Do they look at me sideways when I wear something other than my usual barn clothes? Yup. So, your argument that cows are not hyper aware of their surroundings is incorrect. They may not react the way horses react, but they are indeed hyper-aware of their surroundings.
The biggest takeaway from my reply should be that music has actually been studied in one herd/prey species. It has not been studied in horses.
The second takeaway which I wasn’t clear about is that one vet’s observation does not equal a cause. There are many, many factors that can contribute to ulcers. What were the radio barns feeding compared to the non-radio barns? How were they training their horses? What was turnout like? How often did they have the vet on premises? Did the non-radio barns have enough knowledge to even recognize signs of ulcers and call a vet out for those signs?
Jumping to the conclusion that radio has anything to do with ulcers is silly and also a stupid thing for someone trained in science to actually say to a group of people who would be likely to jump from (sketchy) correlation to causation.
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Actually, the use of music/radios in horse barns has been studied…
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Oh fun! I will definitely look at that when I’m on a real computer … even though I’m pretty sure it isn’t going to say what you think it says.
Actually, the effect of music on horses has been studied. Here’s a link: “music for stressed horses”
There are other studies out there as well.
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I am not sure your condescension is warranted and I am pretty sure I can read…“Playing of the radio within the barn was associated with increased risk of ulceration, indicating that this may be a form of stress for some animals.” The study actually looked at a wide variety of risk factors for equine gastric ulcers and the radio was just one of them. They do address that barns with a tendency to have the radio playing may also have certain other features in common that could also increase equine stress and thus the risk of ulceration.
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Cows absolutely notice and are concerned about minor changes in environment. Try moving the scraper from one corner of the milking parlor to another. Every damned cow will stop and stare.at it in horror.
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The horses he was talking about in his lecture were mostly racehorses.
Our cows are beef cattle, not dairy cows. So they are not handled daily or weekly. They do not care about vehicles to the point that you can put a stranger on a quad and ride amongst them with no problems. Just don’t get off the quad because they get anxious with strangers walking.
Cows also spend a long time down, chewing their cud. Horses have to be really relaxed to lie down and in the wild only do so with a guard up for alarm/protection.
Most horses have the inane sense not to go under trees in a storm. Whole herds of cattle have been lost because the herd is under a tree when it is hit by lightning.
Foaling and calving is really different. Foals can not breathe once birthing starts. calves can breathe for hours.
Foals have to drink incessantly or get ulcers.
You can get away with only feeding a calf twice a day.
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So. They do not like changes in their routine.
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