UNITED STATES AMATEUR DRESSAGE FEDERATION

The way I see it, if you define the problem as lack of international competitiveness, then you certainly cannot look to the way that the USA jumper competitions work as a model because they have FAILED miserably. If you have followed any of the threads on the h/j forum, some are asserting that the lack of international US success is due to the method of hunt seat instruction invented by George Morris. But I don’t necessarily think that is the whole reason.

Sure, the distances people in the US have to travel, and the corresponding increased costs are a big part of the problem. Sure the fact that Americans do not get the sort of time off work Europeans do is part of the problem.

But the BIGGEST problem in my view, is the lack of a public audience for equestrian sports like there is in Europe. Now why is that?

Because in the USA they are considered GIRLS’ sports, and in the USA girls’ sports have very little audience and very little money. No advertising, no sponsors, etc. etc. Look at all professional sports in the USA and you will see the same thing. Hell, there is more audience, more TV coverage, more sponsorships, more advertising etc. in PROFESSIONAL BULL RIDING than there are in equestrian sports, particularly in the Olympic disciplines.

If the USEF would open its eyes, it would see that the future of equestrian sports in the US lies with getting more MEN involved. Making equestrian sports more popular and accessible, not less. If there is wide participation and interest, and a wide audience, then the money will follow. Then there will be a larger pool of talented riders and a much larger pool of advertisers to sponsor the expensive horses and competitions for them.

But the way things are–the powers that be just keep pushing people away and digging a bigger hole. There is no future in the olympic discipline equestrian sports in the USA if they continue down the path that they are on. :no::cry:

USDF CORE VALUES
Excellent service to members
Quality education
Honesty, integrity and accountability
Open communication
Welfare of the horse
Harmonious relationship between horse and rider
Respect for all members

If these above values are true, why was a member (Rebecca) denied access to public information (scores)? So much for “open communication.” Where IS the transparency in an organization that has as its value, “excellent service to members?” What would be the harm in others crunching the numbers?

My concern is that the qualifying proposal will be so watered down that it will be meaningless (because the DC now is determined to continue with a proposal), and the USDF members will be paying for monitoring this new system. I await the DC’s proposal, but until then I’m confused as to why this is truely needed, however strict or watered down the proposal becomes.

[QUOTE=Velvet;3048328]
Why do we expect and want people to “test” and PASS in the educational process before moving on, and yet we balk at doing it in dressage?

I’m still lost as to why some sort of criteria is a bad thing. (BTW, we don’t need another association. The politics and money involved in the current plethora of organization/associations is enough to make one think of giving up the sport.)[/QUOTE]

Imagine if your child, in order to get a high school diploma, had to drive for 6 hours on 10 occasions, sit for a test 10 times, and if she passed all ten exams, she’d get to graduate.

[QUOTE=Eclectic Horseman;3048686]
The way I see it, if you define the problem as lack of international competitiveness, then you certainly cannot look to the way that the USA jumper competitions work as a model because they have FAILED miserably. If you have followed any of the threads on the h/j forum, some are asserting that the lack of international US success is due to the method of hunt seat instruction invented by George Morris. But I don’t necessarily think that is the whole reason.

Sure, the distances people in the US have to travel, and the corresponding increased costs are a big part of the problem. Sure the fact that Americans do not get the sort of time off work Europeans do is part of the problem.

But the BIGGEST problem in my view, is the lack of a public audience for equestrian sports like there is in Europe. Now why is that?

Because in the USA they are considered GIRLS’ sports, and in the USA girls’ sports have very little audience and very little money. No advertising, no sponsors, etc. etc. Look at all professional sports in the USA and you will see the same thing. Hell, there is more audience, more TV coverage, more sponsorships, more advertising etc. in PROFESSIONAL BULL RIDING than there are in equestrian sports, particularly in the Olympic disciplines.

If the USEF would open its eyes, it would see that the future of equestrian sports in the US lies with getting more MEN involved. Making equestrian sports more popular and accessible, not less. If there is wide participation and interest, and a wide audience, then the money will follow. Then there will be a larger pool of talented riders and a much larger pool of advertisers to sponsor the expensive horses and competitions for them.

But the way things are–the powers that be just keep pushing people away and digging a bigger hole. There is no future in the olympic discipline equestrian sports in the USA if they continue down the path that they are on. :no::cry:[/QUOTE]

The US was internationally competitive in equestrian disciplines in the 1960’s and 1970’s when:
1-we had a international training center (Gladstone) where the riders were expected to arrive and train on a set schedule and adhere to a set training program, defined by the team coach;
2-we had dedicated, full-time coaches (De Nemethy and Le Goff), not part-time coaches;
3-The powers-that-be bowed to the coaches…De Nemethy and Le Goff ruled with an iron hand.

And yes, three were more men, because women weren’t allowed to ride in international competition in the early days…I believe it was 1952 for first female to ride dressage in Olympics…can’t recall 3-day…but that was considered more “dangerous” so the little lady wasn’t allowed to do such hazardous competition…remember when women weren’t allowed to run marathons?

Today…we have none of that…rules and more rules ain’t gonna change the fact that the times have changed.

I don’t agree that the solution is getting more men involved, or that that alone would put more money into the sport.

More money isn’t the answer per se, the answer is how is the money spent. On what. Is the program effective. Some of the worst projects I was ever on were very well capitalized. When a project is late and ten or a hundred people are added, the problems of the project skyrocket. The key is to not just throw programs or money at a problem, but to throw solutions at a problem.

I think it’s extremely peculiar, the idea that the Olympic riders prepare themselves or their horses by showing at the national levels. In fact, I don’t think that’s where they come up at all. The suggestion they do is extremely odd.

I think what develops the Olympic riders is coaching, not showing at third and 4th level, and certainly not showing at training-2nd. I think it’s as strange as the suggestion that qualification is needed to prevent abusive riding.

One reason is even more bizarre than the last.

I feel that most of the upper level riders developed very quickly up thru training-4th level, and most, other than economic necessity (showing clients horses and sale horses), make very little use of those levels. Most of the young riders I’ve seen are developing through riding the FEI young rider tests, not those levels.

In any case, I don’t think those levels are what develops people into international riders.

I think it would be far more rational if the organizations said plainly and simply why they want qualification - to raise the scores at those levels and generate revenue. All this attempting to appeal to people’s emotions (‘Save the abused horse! Support qualification! Let’s win a gold medal at the Olympics, too!’) is - it’s really bizarre.

As examples I would take the riders whose histories i am familiar with - Debbie Macdonald. She was a hunter rider. She got a wealthy patron who first bought her hunters, then dressage horses. The patron got her the coaching and training she needed, and then she got to the point where the organization helped her.

Klaus Balkenhol showed some at second level in Germany, but what made him go from a beat cop to an international star was again, coaching. Willi Schultheis, Hartwick, and many others.

A person has to develop very quickly as a young rider, to aim for an international career.

That means a very intense and well planned out program for those early years. Individuals can no longer afford the type of horse they need to develop quickly. They need to ride trained horses, top class horses, to develop quickly enough. Very few people have the resources to get access to those horses, even if they are incredibly talented.

If the organization REALLY wants to develop riders, they get a full time coach, someone who works not 180 days of the next two years with the riders, but someone who works full time, and not just a year or two before the Olympics - that’s penny wise and pound foolish. I’m not complaining about Balkenhol, but about our structure, our timing, our program. I think Balkenhol is brilliant - he used the Pan Am games to develop our riders, that’s very smart. He has tons of knowledge, he’s a great asset.

They form a place like DOKR, in that it’s full time, not ‘sessions’, where the best riders congregate and work together under some sort of ORGANIZED, FULL TIME leadership, and the conflicts between personal coaches and national leadership gets worked out inteliigently. They would buy horses (yes, they would buy horses, lease them, people would donate them, whatever, however), not 2nd level schoolmasters, really good well trained horses, to try people out and bring them along. They’d expand the developing horse and rider programs, and bring more people to gladstone and work harder to develop them.

NOT a certain number of days, which winds up a big intense period shortly before the Olympics, shortly before the Olympics, and doesn’t develop the horse’s fitness long term over a longer period, which would reduce the stress on them. If the Olympics no longer have riding AT LEAST the national organization will be forced to come up with a more rational program.

There is no reason for this process to have anything at all to do with amateurs showing at training-4th level. I’m not saying these top riders don’t show at t-4th at all, but that this isn’t what makes the difference between an amateur and an international rider.

Riders with potential can easily be identified, regardless of what amateurs score or don’t score.

This is what’s so peculiar to me. Instead of doing what WOULD stop abuse, or what WOULD develop riders to the international level, they’re doing qualification - which to my way of thinking, could be a good thing, but is going to wind up doing nothign more than generating a lot of revenue for the organization, and a lot of very unhappy amateurs.

The more I look at the scores, the more I know we need help, and we need to score better. There ARE weak scores at 3rd-4th. There just ARE. But how to make them better? By qualification, or by some other program? I actually think another sort of program would be better - partnering with trainers to offer regional ‘buildup’ clinics - to go over test results, and teach the riders how to ride better.

[QUOTE=rosinante;3050639]
The US was internationally competitive in equestrian disciplines in the 1960’s and 1970’s when:
1-we had a international training center (Gladstone) where the riders were expected to arrive and train on a set schedule and adhere to a set training program, defined by the team coach;
2-we had dedicated, full-time coaches (De Nemethy and Le Goff), not part-time coaches;
3-The powers-that-be bowed to the coaches…De Nemethy and Le Goff ruled with an iron hand.

I agree with this but want to add that during this period they were also considered amateurs. They didn’t have barns full of client horses or travelling every weekend to give clinics. Thinks where tougher financially but the riders where dedicated to their own horses and training.

i don’t think they were really amateurs. they made a living off of riding or were independently wealthy or before that were in the military.

But everything you have said, slc, still comes down to the need for an incredible amount of money. This is NOT going to come from the general membership, who now more than ever are TAPPED OUT. I truly believe that the general membership will not be inspired to pay more entry, coaching, stabling and hauling fees in order to qualify. The money just isn’t there, and they are more likely to become discouraged and to vote with their feet.

Where the real money has to come from, always, in ANY sport is corporate sponsorships and advertising. If money from those sources of revenue can be generated, THEN full time coaching, a national academy, scholarships for riders–all of that would be within our reach. Otherwise, I just don’t see it happening.

That’s exactly the problem.

For one, nothing is going to get less expensive. Transportation, feed and horse costs are skyrocketing. It IS going to be, more and more, an elite sport, when hay hits 10 dollars a bale and gas hits 8 dollars a gallon. People ARE going to get out of competing. this has happened several times already in the USA, and the clientel keeps narrowing down more and more over time.

It requires tons of money to succeed at a sport like dressage at the elite level. And there are a lot of problems with corporate sponsors, least of all getting them. I have very mixed feelings about it.

I’m not sure all members are tapped out. I think some can contribute very, very generously to an elite program. clearly all cannot.

I think the mistake that is being made is assuming that the general membership as a whole can and will underwrite a team, thru their increasingly more complex and costly memberships and fees, and that rules that affect largely them alone, should cater to an elite competition tier.

Alot of this I think got a lot more pressing when the usef took over the functions of the uset when they had to become one organization.

From USDF’s Form 990

Organization’s Primary Exempt Purpose: Organization is to promote and encourage a high standard of accomplishment in dressage throughout the US. USDF is dedicated to education, the recognition of achievement and the promotion to the sport of dressage.

Statement of Program service Accomplishments: The US Dressage Federation Inc promotes and encourages a high standard of accomplishment in dressage throughout the United States primarily through educational programs including: seminars, clinics, forums, assisting reginal organizations and cooperating with other horse organizations.

Progarm Service Expenses: $4,345,078

Just a minor point of clarification:

The rule change is a USEF rule change.

Yes, the USEF Dressage Committee is mostly composed of USDF senior staff and judges.
Yes, we should expect the USDF to ‘protect’ us from wanton mis-adventure from the USEF.
However, the administrative rule change procedures that will govern this rule are those of the USEF. Quoting the USDF Strategic Plan, etc, is a good way to stiff USDF’s back and make them pay attention to their membership, but we still need to be mindful of the USEF rule processes and procedures to get through this and create an outcome that is of true benefit to the dressage community as a whole.

star

[QUOTE=tartanfarm;3050730]

[QUOTE=rosinante;3050639]The US was internationally competitive in equestrian disciplines in the 1960’s and 1970’s when:
1-we had a international training center (Gladstone) where the riders were expected to arrive and train on a set schedule and adhere to a set training program, defined by the team coach;
2-we had dedicated, full-time coaches (De Nemethy and Le Goff), not part-time coaches;
3-The powers-that-be bowed to the coaches…De Nemethy and Le Goff ruled with an iron hand.

I agree with this but want to add that during this period they were also considered amateurs. They didn’t have barns full of client horses or travelling every weekend to give clinics. Thinks where tougher financially but the riders where dedicated to their own horses and training.[/QUOTE]

No, a lot of them had full time jobs too that they had to work in order to pay the bills. Hilda Gurney was a schoolteacher. Steinkraus was a stock trader.

and they both bought and sold horses professionally and taught riding, got paid for training, etc.

[QUOTE=slc2;3050665]
They form a place like DOKR, in that it’s full time, not ‘sessions’, where the best riders congregate and work together under some sort of ORGANIZED, FULL TIME leadership, and the conflicts between personal coaches and national leadership gets worked out inteliigently. They would buy horses (yes, they would buy horses, lease them, people would donate them, whatever, however), not 2nd level schoolmasters, really good well trained horses, to try people out and bring them along. They’d expand the developing horse and rider programs, and bring more people to gladstone and work harder to develop them.[/QUOTE]

I think that is exactly the way to proceed.

Look, two (or three?) people got into a bidding war in an auction to benefit USET to spend a month with Debbie McDonald. When it got to $80,000, Debbie said, um, I’ll just take them both.

It would be expensive, but there might very well be some money out there to build such a thing, and set it up so you could be invited if you earned your way in, or so you could buy a week there.

I said somewhere else that if you look at our current top riders, what’s clear is that our pipeline has mostly been filled with people who have been educated in Europe. And so, if USDF wanted to create a bigger pipeline of people to excel internationally, it would seem that the best way would be to encourage more kids to go to Europe, either just by saying so, by setting up a scholarship fund to help get the kids there, or even by buying into a barn and then sending promising riders there. Imagine a high school foreign exchange student arrangement. Who knows.

[QUOTE=ShotenStar;3051245]
Quoting the USDF Strategic Plan, etc, is a good way to stiff USDF’s back and make them pay attention to their membership, but we still need to be mindful of the USEF rule processes and procedures to get through this and create an outcome that is of true benefit to the dressage community as a whole.

star[/QUOTE]

Then here we go:

USEF BYLAW 102, Objectives, Section Two, MISSION STATEMENT excerpts:

(10) Provide effective and timely communication to every level of athlete, official, and organizer within the sport.

(11) Develop interest and participation in equestrian sport throughout the UnitedStates and work with affiliate associations, breed and discipline organizations, and other organizations to encourage participation.

(23) Provide and coordinate technical information on physical training,equipment, its design, coaching and performance analysis.

use of bold font is mine. Source: pages 2 and 3 http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2008/02-bylaws.pdf

“I said somewhere else that if you look at our current top riders, what’s clear is that our pipeline has mostly been filled with people who have been educated in Europe”

blasphemy, lol!!!

and truth…very true.

right now, if we wanted to make a ‘deep team’ in 4-8 yrs, we’d give every promising, winning rider a horse of appropriate calibre and a free scholarship to go over and work with a top trainer/competitor for a coupla years - right now.

long term, maybe not, but that’s the immediate solution.

Rebecca,

Not only will I join, I would be happy to be one of your people who brings in your new organization’s sponsors. :yes:

Warning BRAG

Thank you, Coreene.

And thank you to everyone who is expressing support both publicly and privately. Please forgive me if I don’t have time to thank every single person who has done so, as well as offered to do busy work, etc.

I have a more than full time job as a consulting psychologist, just made my last $1800 per month for 4 years payment to Johns Hopkins University where (brag coming) my daughter is graduating at age 20 with a very high GPA in a very difficult curriculum.

I talked to her this am and she told me she has been accepted at ALL FIVE (I knew the four, but number five came through now, too) Veterinary Schools where she applied.

She has been accepted at Ohio State, U of Wisconsin, Va-Maryland (Va Tech), Tufts, and U of Pennsylvania. She has also been accepted into PhD programs in sciences (wants to be a veterinary pathologist so needs a PhD too) at Johns Hopkins, Tufts, and Univ of Penn. She had interviews at MIT and Harvard as well. She’s going to attend the Univ of Penn in the combined PhD/VMD program (which accepted only 5 students this year), which will take 8 years to complete. She will get ALL of her Vet School and ALL of her PhD tuition and fees paid, insurance, and get $28K per year stipend. She will work her butt off but she does now anyway. All of the programs are VERY competitive and just getting interviews is a major accomplishment.

On top of all that–she is sweet, gorgeous, and knows how to do stalls.

So, anyway–I have full-time work to help with all that, and this effort re the Perf Standards has become a very time-consuming task. So PLEASE everyone know that all three of us who have been working on the stats–(Shotenstar, Pluvinel on TOB, forgot name on here, and I) are eternally grateful for all offers of help. I am at an OOT conference right now but will check email etc. Shotenstar and Pluvinel have done MAJOR MAJOR work on a very professional data-based report.

Every GMO is going to get it very soon. Ask your GMO about this. We will also send to Participating Member delegates.

Thank you thank you thank you. ry

congrats Rebecca and company! godspeed.

WOW - what a great mom!