[QUOTE=JB;8405545]
Yay for improvement! The frog puked off made me :lol: :lol:
I’m curious why the heels of the LF are still so underrun? 
Really nice concavity going on there![/QUOTE]
To my eye it looks like the inside heel could be taken down more and both could be angled back more. Actually, that goes for the RF too, it looks like trimmer is leaving a bump of bar on the insides of both.
[QUOTE=JB;8405545]
I’m curious why the heels of the LF are still so underrun? [/QUOTE]
They were SO LONG and bent that they just literally need to grow out and get chopped off. I think all the dead tissue was impeding hoof mechanism/stimulation, and she was also so sore on that foot there was a noticeable difference in growth between the right and left fronts, which I believe is because she refused to put as much weight on the bad foot. I’m trying to keep adjustments small enough that she doesn’t get sore, because the most improvement I’ve seen has been since she stopped “pointing” that foot. Remember the back of that thing was just smashed to hell so it’s probably still healing and she literally has to rebuild her frog too. If you compare it to the “beginning” photo you can see that her heel is actually finally under her leg, and we are only just now able to start bringing it farther back. She’s actually walking on the “tip” of the wall now, rather than bent-over wall.
Yep, the medial heel on the RF is higher/more forward than the lateral. The bars on the RF need cleaning up and yeah, that lump is weird on the medial side. The LF bars are better.
I went back to look at the last set of pics and WOW, I had not remembered just how bad they were. That was some HONKIN’ false sole that came out, poor girl!!!
[QUOTE=Mosey_2003;8405554]
To my eye it looks like the inside heel could be taken down more and both could be angled back more. Actually, that goes for the RF too, it looks like trimmer is leaving a bump of bar on the insides of both.[/QUOTE]
This is a Ramey-style trimmer. I’ve read they’re not as aggressive with the bars, but she isn’t sore post-trim. I think it’ll just take longer and I’m okay with that. The first, more aggressive trimmer I used almost caused a mechanical founder. She literally couldn’t walk for almost a week. This is one of her feet pre-trim, and post “sole puke”, and he actually did a lot more work on the bars this time than he did last time.
No wonder she was lame! Wow you must be excited to have your girl back! Congrats!
[QUOTE=ohmissbrittany;8405572]
They were SO LONG and bent that they just literally need to grow out and get chopped off. [/QUOTE]
Well, no, they need to be trimmed back now 
They’re already “grown out” The longer they stay underrun, the longer the tubules growing in will curve and remain underrun.
I think all the dead tissue was impeding hoof mechanism/stimulation, and she was also so sore on that foot there was a noticeable difference in growth between the right and left fronts, which I believe is because she refused to put as much weight on the bad foot. I’m trying to keep adjustments small enough that she doesn’t get sore, because the most improvement I’ve seen has been since she stopped “pointing” that foot. Remember the back of that thing was just smashed to hell so it’s probably still healing and she literally has to rebuild her frog too. If you compare it to the “beginning” photo you can see that her heel is actually finally under her leg, and we are only just now able to start bringing it farther back. She’s actually walking on the “tip” of the wall now, rather than bent-over wall.
the heels of the LF aren’t under her leg though. They are about under the front of her fetlock, best I can tell from the lateral view which, granted, is a bit forward of center. The solar view shows them clearly forward of the wide part of the frog.
If she is happy, that’s fine. If there are plans to quickly get the heels back, that’s fine. It’s just something that glared at me and I wondered why they were left so underrun still.
[QUOTE=Mosey_2003;8405518]
Better :yes:
Couple areas I’d do a little more to, but on the right path at least.
How is she feeling overall?[/QUOTE]
Really good! I mentioned in another reply that I’ve switched trimmers. I was taught the difference between a “Strasser” trim and a “Ramey” trim. The first trimmer I took her to was so aggressive she almost suffered a mechanical founder. She literally couldn’t walk out of her stall for a week or so. This trimmer is not as aggressive, but he’s very thoughtful on how he does it, and I’ve been able to ride her after the last two trims he has done. I think it’ll be slower, but if it keeps her from getting sore I’m happy. Another important part is that she has to be weight-bearing and willing to move to keep the circulation/concussion going in that foot to encourage it to toughen back up, so if we keep over-trimming her to soreness it doesn’t help as much.
Currently walking and trotting under saddle on grass and in the arena just fine, straight lines she is sounder than on turns. 
The farrier who messed up her feet has another client at my barn that’s just been diagnosed with the same issue. He’s getting the padded shoes now, and the owner “tried” barefoot for about 4 days but is not the type to wait several weeks and make an honest attempt at rehabbing from the inside out. It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out for them.
Oh God, if you had said that the first trimmer coming was a Strasser we could have warned you off, they’re NOTORIOUS for laming horses hardcore.
As long as the trimmer takes more each time you’ll probably get there. Ramey style is better, although way back when I was reading his stuff he recommended more aggressive heel backing coupled with boots and pads. I still might bring up the excess bar on the insides the next time though.
[QUOTE=Mosey_2003;8405665]
Oh God, if you had said that the first trimmer coming was a Strasser we could have warned you off, they’re NOTORIOUS for laming horses hardcore.
As long as the trimmer takes more each time you’ll probably get there. Ramey style is better, although way back when I was reading his stuff he recommended more aggressive heel backing coupled with boots and pads. I still might bring up the excess bar on the insides the next time though.[/QUOTE]
I call the first trim “my fuckup days” and am so thankful my mare didn’t just try to lay down and die on me. Second trimmer said as long as she stays standing she’s okay, and she’s a tough bird. When Strasser trimmer did her thing, I think my poor girl was just walking on wads of retained sole, which is probably like walking with rocks in your socks. We hated it. I paid the price with twice-daily trips to the barn to apply easycare pad and duct tape “boots” for that mistake 
I replied in a PM to JB, but the trimmer that has been helping me remotely (she had a hysterectomy or she’d be trimming my horse) is coming to show me how to do minor touch ups on things like that with a rasp tonight. She actually texted a drawn-on version of the right front showing exactly that as I was writing to JB, lol. Thanks for pointing it out though!
I have a neat little curved rasp from somewhere that’s really nice for doing bars as I’m total crap with a knife and have a blade phobia, I wonder where I got it…
Bars and overall length were what I always had my farrier for, then I’d just touch up heels and back toes :yes:
How are the feet looking a couple months later?
Really much better actually!! I’ll highlight the x-rays taken in September and December as the “proof in the pudding”. The change in the spacing between the pastern and navicular bones is amazing (in a good way).
Here is a before picture of the “problem” front left foot and here is a marked up shot from the most recent trim highlighting the tight new healthy growth, the old ridgey bulged crap and the change in direction of the heel growth tubules.
And Here is a full album of views from the most recent trim. She has been on a 3-4 week cycle, sound as a bell on everything but gravel (back to jumping, doing some trail rides because walking is good but the arena is boring). Interesting note in the last image- both back toes have revealed some bruising that wasn’t present in the wall going down but just “popped up” in the white line. I always felt my old farrier left her back toes too long because she got sore hocks and stood under herself… and that’s my definitive proof that there was pressure on the white line. It’s all localized to the toe area and only in the white line, so pretty positive it’s just from running/jumping/living on toes that were too long. The overall profile of her feet has changed and it’s amazing.
I’m not gonna go full granola crunching “barefoot cures everything” and she may yet need shoes for competition and hard training, but I firmly believe that this much progress would not have been made using shoes (and especially using that same farrier!), so if you have the time to take off and the facilities, I would still encourage everyone to try removing the shoes on navicular/palmar-pain/NPA/crushed heel horses because I truly believe this process has saved mine.
I can’t wait to see pictures in June
[QUOTE=Mosey_2003;8494211]
I can’t wait to see pictures in June :D[/QUOTE]
Me too
Stuff is going well with minor setbacks with all the flooding (her soles seem to get rock hard when I ride regularly, then a little flat when she just sits and eats). I think it’s about to get a little weird- you can see particularly in the fifth photo where this weird bulge of wall separation from the collapsed old growth is finally hitting ground level, as well as how much the angle of new growth has changed. Hoping once that’s done the white line will stay nice and tight. Horse is still sound, recently competed at both a schooling and her first A show since all this started in the meters and it went great- no slipping no scrambling and no soreness. ?? I’ll be back in a few months when the new growth hits the ground! (We will also be hailing from the UK starting in July, so Pony is taking a month long vacation in pre export quarantine soon.)
Thanks for the update. Feet are overall much improved, but that first foot - LF, I believe?) still has an underrun heel and the toe is a bit long. What a drastic improvement from your first post, though.
Good job OP… I’m so glad to hear she’s doing so well. Her feet have come a long way. I agree the left front still looks a bit underrun, but that may be something that you always battle so keep on top of it.
Told you it would be better
You should edit some together doing side-by-side with the first pics and the last :yes:
Good job!
[QUOTE=Mosey_2003;8697024]
You should edit some together doing side-by-side with the first pics and the last :yes:[/QUOTE]
Yes… It would be a great comparison and would help with some of the current “navicular” threads on this page now.
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